Battery ?!?!

[weatherlover1]

I have been happy with the battery life. I don't use smart actions either instead I use tasker and think it works a lot better. My first MAXX had a battery failure hot screen, would not charge on charger etc. My replacement has worked fine but I only use the charger that came with the phone now. Yesterday I made a few phone calls and did light to moderate use otherwise and when I went to bed at midnight I still had 55% battery left. If I use GPS in the car I plug it in.

 

[FoxKat]

The only other thing i would try is bump charging (I wouldn't do it all the time, but occasionally it shouldn't hurt), that is if you can get it to charge all the way up. I did that after day three and usually get between 13-14 hours on 4g heavy use and over 20 when on Wifi on the weekends.

https://community.verizonwireless.com/thread/672997 I used the second method.

I completely disagree with this method of attempting to "build or restore more power into a Li-Ion battery ". There is NO WAY to SAFELY increase the capacity of a Lithium Ion Polymer battery (the type in these phones), and anyone who has used "bump charging" to do so is either simply benefiting from a placebo effect or is pushing the battery beyond its design specifications.

This method of attempting to bypass the built-in battery charging and monitoring system is potentially dangerous as well. It is true that you can charge the battery to higher voltage levels than are recommended by the manufacturer, and that the battery WILL then last longer during use, but by charging in excess of the battery's recommended maximum voltage levels you are DECREASING the LIFESPAN of the battery, such that it will age FAR FASTER than normal. ALL Lithium Ion batteries leave the factory being able to "SAFELY" hold only so much voltage and current. Any attempts to exceed these rated values is detrimental to the battery and can also cause what is known as "thermal runaway" which can ultimately result in a battery that bursts, and expels flames and noxious gasses, potentially resulting in a fire and harm to person.

The battery charging system is designed to watch increasing voltages and decreasing current draws to identify when the battery is nearing its fully charged levels (about 90%). Once it does that, the charger then steps down the rate of charge for the last 10% of charging until it sees the current draw reach 3% of rated capacity at which time it shuts off charging altogether to protect the battery from overcharging and thermal runaway. By "bump charging" what you are doing is allowing the battery's voltages and current to balance out and stabilize at a lower voltage level (which is a natural effect), but then forcing more voltage and current into the battery above what it is rated at. This is VERY DANGEROUS.

Nobody should be coming to the conclusion that their battery is working improperly until they have FIRST done a complete charge and training cycle with the phone. This is a 3 step process and unless you do all three steps properly and one right after the other, you can not depend on the readings of the meter to indicate a true battery level. Case in point...http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-razr-support/206890-battery-issue-not.html is a thread about a guy who's phone continued to operate for 7 hours while the meter displayed 5% the entire time. THIS is a perfect example of why the meter can't be trusted until it has been "trained" to the battery.

1. The PROPER way to assure a FULL CHARGE to the battery's TRUE CAPACITY (and to "train" the charging and metering system), is to power the phone off FIRST!
2. Then plug the STOCK CHARGER into the phone, and allow it to boot into the Charge only mode. Allow it to charge to 100% as indicated by the animated battery and % indicated. To check, briefly tap the power button ONCE and wait 3-4 seconds for the charge indicator to display. If it has still not reached 100%, LEAVE IT ALONE for another 30-60 minutes and check again. The entire time needed to reach 100% is anywhere from 1-3 hours for a RAZR (depending on what level you start your power-off charge from), and 2-5 hours for the MAXX. Once it has reached 100%, you should disconnect the charger, power the phone on and use the phone as normal.
   
   Note: This is also something you can do anytime you want to assure maximum battery level if you are going to be away from a power source for an extended period of time and need the maximum staying power.
3. CONTINUE using the phone while monitoring the battery level and don't sweat the numbers if they appear to be falling fast, slow, or not at all for any time during this discharge process. What you DO want to do is once the meter signals the "Low battery" warning at 15%, to again POWER OFF the phone and repeat step 2.

After performing this training, the meter will know the proper maximum battery capacity, the minimum levels at which point to signal the charging requirement, and the approximate levels across the range of discharge during use.

I have posted countless explanations of this method and there have been countless confirmation by users who have done this to prove it works. Also I have posted links to third party references which both prove my claims and back them with clinical and scientific evidence and explanation of same. ANY attempts to bypass or otherwise circumvent/fool/bump/trick the charging system into charging the battery beyond specs can result in catastrophic damage and potential loss of house, limb, or life. Do so at your own risk but I highly recommend you DO NOT recommend such to others - especially when you have no understanding of the dangers and potential consequences.

 

[94lt1]

Not to pile on here, but bump charging was something people thought of back in the days of the Motorola star tac. Back when you could plug in a Motorola phone and charge it to full capacity, then unplug and then plug it in again.... it would show that it was charging again, but I'm pretty sure that it was due to inaccurate charging info.

My opinion.

DROID RAZR MAXXAMIZED!!!

 

[FoxKat]

Not to pile on here, but bump charging was something people thought of back in the days of the Motorola star tac. Back when you could plug in a Motorola phone and charge it to full capacity, then unplug and then plug it in again.... it would show that it was charging again, but I'm pretty sure that it was due to inaccurate charging info.

My opinion.

DROID RAZR MAXXAMIZED!!!

You are right that there was a placebo effect on those phones of the past. Another thing is those phones were using Nickel Metal Hydride (and earlier versions Nickel Cadmium) batteries which can sustain extended and constant trickle charges without causing them to become unstable. Yes, it did effectively reduce those batteries' lifespan as well, but it wouldn't create a heightened risk of catastrophe. In contrast, Lithium Ion and Lithium Ion Polymer batteries can NOT withstand either extended or constant trickle charge, nor can they withstand charging beyond certain limits lest they become a ticking time bomb. This is WHY there is a system in place which monitors closely the charging rate and capacity of these batteries and shuts off the charging system.

The real issues here are the damage that is done to these batteries as a result of extending their charge to 100% (and theoretically above) and maintaining that charge level for extended periods of time, as well as the other more serious risks mentioned. If the entire thread from that link is read, and then the threads that link references are also read, you'll find there is a good bit of real data to support the claim that it works. He also references BatteryUniversity.com which I have referenced numerous times as a place to validate my claims. Unfortunately what he doesn't mention is the very real threat of thermal runaway and catastrophic failure that bump charging can potentially cause.

I wasn't trying to imply that it definitely didn't provide the results claimed, but instead to highlight the problems associated with "bump charging". This is where I draw the line in the sand. Anyone who suggests someone bypass internal systems put in place to prevent such catastrophic failure, and does so both without understanding the potential risk, and also does so to the general public which is highly unlikely to do the proper research and assess the risks themselves is putting the naieve in harm's way and that's just wrong on so many levels.

I've said before, it's wrong to take a set of recommendations which is effective for one device or system design and apply it universally across all "similar" devices or systems, since in this case in particular, a battery isn't just a battery like any other, but a completely different chemistry with inherently different limits and risks. If the manufacturer doesn't recommend "bump charging", and DOES recommend charging with the power OFF, then why are there so many who are insistent on bucking the system?

Could you imagine the same concept being applied to your car's gas tank...? :icon_eek: OK, so pump gas into the tank until the gas pump's safety lever (KEY WORDS, "safety lever"), kicks off, then wait...then pump more in, and repeat again and again until the tank will take no more. OK, now park the car in the sun and wait... Be sure not to stand too near and make certain not to create a source of ignition, as you might get caught in the possible ensuing explosion or fire. There's a REASON there's a "safety lever" on those things...it's to leave room for expansion of the liquid gas which is at 56-58 degrees underground, but will gain volume through expansion when it warms up to ambient above ground temperatures, putting stress on the tank, the lines and the cap.

I know it's a completely different system and the chemistries don't match, but it's still an illustrative analogy. Just like the "safety lever" on the gas nozzle, there are "safety triggers" in the system to charge these batteries and yet there are people who wish to bypass them. All I can say is God help those who can't help themselves.

 

[Trash Can]

Professor FoxKat's battery posts should be required reading before joining this forum.

 

[94lt1]

You are right that there was a placebo effect on those phones of the past. Another thing is those phones were using Nickel Metal Hydride (and earlier versions Nickel Cadmium) batteries which can sustain extended and constant trickle charges without causing them to become unstable. Yes, it did effectively reduce those batteries' lifespan as well, but it wouldn't create a heightened risk of catastrophe. In contrast, Lithium Ion and Lithium Ion Polymer batteries can NOT withstand either extended or constant trickle charge, nor can they withstand charging beyond certain limits lest they become a ticking time bomb. This is WHY there is a system in place which monitors closely the charging rate and capacity of these batteries and shuts off the charging system.

The real issues here are the damage that is done to these batteries as a result of extending their charge to 100% (and theoretically above) and maintaining that charge level for extended periods of time, as well as the other more serious risks mentioned. If the entire thread from that link is read, and then the threads that link references are also read, you'll find there is a good bit of real data to support the claim that it works. He also references BatteryUniversity.com which I have referenced numerous times as a place to validate my claims. Unfortunately what he doesn't mention is the very real threat of thermal runaway and catastrophic failure that bump charging can potentially cause.

I wasn't trying to imply that it definitely didn't provide the results claimed, but instead to highlight the problems associated with "bump charging". This is where I draw the line in the sand. Anyone who suggests someone bypass internal systems put in place to prevent such catastrophic failure, and does so both without understanding the potential risk, and also does so to the general public which is highly unlikely to do the proper research and assess the risks themselves is putting the naieve in harm's way and that's just wrong on so many levels.

I've said before, it's wrong to take a set of recommendations which is effective for one device or system design and apply it universally across all "similar" devices or systems, since in this case in particular, a battery isn't just a battery like any other, but a completely different chemistry with inherently different limits and risks. If the manufacturer doesn't recommend "bump charging", and DOES recommend charging with the power OFF, then why are there so many who are insistent on bucking the system?

Could you imagine the same concept being applied to your car's gas tank...? :icon_eek: OK, so pump gas into the tank until the gas pump's safety lever (KEY WORDS, "safety lever"), kicks off, then wait...then pump more in, and repeat again and again until the tank will take no more. OK, now park the car in the sun and wait... Be sure not to stand too near and make certain not to create a source of ignition, as you might get caught in the possible ensuing explosion or fire. There's a REASON there's a "safety lever" on those things...it's to leave room for expansion of the liquid gas which is at 56-58 degrees underground, but will gain volume through expansion when it warms up to ambient above ground temperatures, putting stress on the tank, the lines and the cap.

I know it's a completely different system and the chemistries don't match, but it's still an illustrative analogy. Just like the "safety lever" on the gas nozzle, there are "safety triggers" in the system to charge these batteries and yet there are people who wish to bypass them. All I can say is God help those who can't help themselves.

You know I agree with you 100%

DROID RAZR MAXXAMIZED!!!

 

[BradenFontaine]

Went from 95% to 45% (half the battery) in 6 hours. Noticed Smart Actions accounted for 9.4% of that drop from SystemPanel. Just putting it out there. I'd say average use for a smartphone. Not too sold on this battery. But from what I've read in this post, which had some excellent info btw, ill give it some time.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[thaDroidz]

Went from 95% to 45% (half the battery) in 6 hours. Noticed Smart Actions accounted for 9.4% of that drop from SystemPanel. Just putting it out there. I'd say average use for a smartphone. Not too sold on this battery. But from what I've read in this post, which had some excellent info btw, ill give it some time.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

What was the display on time?
Just curious ..

----posted MAXXED OUT WITH dessert----

 

[BradenFontaine]

38% I think. But funny how smart actions doesn't show up with the on board battery monitor...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[BradenFontaine]

Sorry for the side ways pic, didn't sleep much

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[94lt1]

Not a great pic, but it's looking like your display was on and you were getting signal during those 6 hours. The display is going to use up battery, and your battery usage curve looks pretty good.

Its a long slant going down. If it looked like \ that and only lasted a few hours...3 or less.. then you'd have an issue. Using only half the battery in 6 hours is pretty good.... since the phone wasn't asleep for that 6 hours.

I had a long night too, so i could be seeing this wrong, you can't zoom into the pics anymore on the mobile app...

DROID RAZR MAXXAMIZED!!!

 

[clintro]

Like I said in my post, I wouldn't do it all the time, but once probably wont cause any issues. I believe this will calibrate the battery rather than overcharge it (I also believe this is unnecessary as the battery and phone will calibrate themselves over time anyhow, but some people don't want to wait). I highly doubt the phone will let you overcharge the battery even when it is in "off" state. I never really turn completely off or you wouldn't have a battery symbol pop up when you plug it in, that is a function of the phone OS.

All this is IMO of course just a friendly rebuttal.

From: How to Prime Batteries – Battery University

Some scientists believe that with use and storage, a passivation layer builds up on the cathode of a lithium-ion cell. Also known as interfacial protective film (IPF), this layer restricts ion flow and increases the internal resistance. In the worst cases, the phenomenon can lead to lithium plating. Charging, and more effectively cycling, is known to dissolve the layer. Scientists do not fully understand the nature of this layer, and the few published resources on this subject only speculate that performance restoration with cycling is connected to the removal of the passivation layer. Some scientists deny outright the existence of the IPF, saying that the idea is highly speculative and inconsistent with existing studies. Another layer is the solid electrolyte interphase (SEI), which is said to form at the anode on the initial charge. SEI is an electric insulation yet provides sufficient ionic conductivity for proper function.

This is a great site for information on batteries: Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University

I completely disagree with this method of attempting to "build or restore more power into a Li-Ion battery ". There is NO WAY to SAFELY increase the capacity of a Lithium Ion Polymer battery (the type in these phones), and anyone who has used "bump charging" to do so is either simply benefiting from a placebo effect or is pushing the battery beyond its design specifications.

This method of attempting to bypass the built-in battery charging and monitoring system is potentially dangerous as well. It is true that you can charge the battery to higher voltage levels than are recommended by the manufacturer, and that the battery WILL then last longer during use, but by charging in excess of the battery's recommended maximum voltage levels you are DECREASING the LIFESPAN of the battery, such that it will age FAR FASTER than normal. ALL Lithium Ion batteries leave the factory being able to "SAFELY" hold only so much voltage and current. Any attempts to exceed these rated values is detrimental to the battery and can also cause what is known as "thermal runaway" which can ultimately result in a battery that bursts, and expels flames and noxious gasses, potentially resulting in a fire and harm to person.

The battery charging system is designed to watch increasing voltages and decreasing current draws to identify when the battery is nearing its fully charged levels (about 90%). Once it does that, the charger then steps down the rate of charge for the last 10% of charging until it sees the current draw reach 3% of rated capacity at which time it shuts off charging altogether to protect the battery from overcharging and thermal runaway. By "bump charging" what you are doing is allowing the battery's voltages and current to balance out and stabilize at a lower voltage level (which is a natural effect), but then forcing more voltage and current into the battery above what it is rated at. This is VERY DANGEROUS.

Nobody should be coming to the conclusion that their battery is working improperly until they have FIRST done a complete charge and training cycle with the phone. This is a 3 step process and unless you do all three steps properly and one right after the other, you can not depend on the readings of the meter to indicate a true battery level. Case in point...http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-razr-support/206890-battery-issue-not.html is a thread about a guy who's phone continued to operate for 7 hours while the meter displayed 5% the entire time. THIS is a perfect example of why the meter can't be trusted until it has been "trained" to the battery.

1. The PROPER way to assure a FULL CHARGE to the battery's TRUE CAPACITY (and to "train" the charging and metering system), is to power the phone off FIRST!
2. Then plug the STOCK CHARGER into the phone, and allow it to boot into the Charge only mode. Allow it to charge to 100% as indicated by the animated battery and % indicated. To check, briefly tap the power button ONCE and wait 3-4 seconds for the charge indicator to display. If it has still not reached 100%, LEAVE IT ALONE for another 30-60 minutes and check again. The entire time needed to reach 100% is anywhere from 1-3 hours for a RAZR (depending on what level you start your power-off charge from), and 2-5 hours for the MAXX. Once it has reached 100%, you should disconnect the charger, power the phone on and use the phone as normal.
   
   Note: This is also something you can do anytime you want to assure maximum battery level if you are going to be away from a power source for an extended period of time and need the maximum staying power.
3. CONTINUE using the phone while monitoring the battery level and don't sweat the numbers if they appear to be falling fast, slow, or not at all for any time during this discharge process. What you DO want to do is once the meter signals the "Low battery" warning at 15%, to again POWER OFF the phone and repeat step 2.

After performing this training, the meter will know the proper maximum battery capacity, the minimum levels at which point to signal the charging requirement, and the approximate levels across the range of discharge during use.

I have posted countless explanations of this method and there have been countless confirmation by users who have done this to prove it works. Also I have posted links to third party references which both prove my claims and back them with clinical and scientific evidence and explanation of same. ANY attempts to bypass or otherwise circumvent/fool/bump/trick the charging system into charging the battery beyond specs can result in catastrophic damage and potential loss of house, limb, or life. Do so at your own risk but I highly recommend you DO NOT recommend such to others - especially when you have no understanding of the dangers and potential consequences.