Is there ever a time that Fragmentation can be good?

[MissionImprobable]

I have been vocal about my opinions about the 5c, but as i begin to look more into it, that may be over exaggeration on my part. You put an otterbox case on it, which many do, and the plastic "feel" is non existent (well except the fact the otterbox is plastic). Apple is going to be alright as they do enough to keep their loyal fan base coming back and the simplicity of the os makes the jump to the smartphone much easier for those who are not considered tech savy. Add to that more and more companies coming off the blackberry are turning to Apple for their business solutions, reason why Samsung is moving to a more locked down and secure software (Samsung Knox). And on the tablet side companies turn to the ipad, Airlines are supplying pilots with ipads as the weight of the manuals are taken into account with fuel costs so going to a light ipad is worth it for them financially. So apple is not going anywhere anytime soon.

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Not saying they're going the way of the dodo, but their overinflated shares have taken marked drops with the releases of the last two iPhones and iOS iterations. If the capital behind them is fickle enough to react to that then they'll certainly dump more stock if there's a move away from mobile technology. Again, I'm in no way stating that Apple is going to bite the dust, but a large downturn in the mobile industry will definitely hurt them.

As to other picking up iDevices, yes, it's happening, but Samsung seems much more serious about enterprise-level security than Apple, and offers units at a lower costs overall, so over time they will continue to take share away from Apple as they have been.

Back to the original topic, the spread of Android over so many iterations for current market devices isn't particularly great for us overall. There are many features that I cannot utilize or utilize effectively because individual manufacturers and not Google push OS updates. My D2 is forever stuck on ICS, and there are a number of later devices that will never see JB or greater at any point other than through custom Roms. I think seeing timely updates is going to be what begins to further separate manufacturers from one another. If a friend of mine that I helped recently weren't so into Android I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped ship considering he finds himself in the unfortunate situation of having a carrier-spec device that will never receive upgrades or custom Roms. At least on iOS he could get the latest iteration and then jailbreak if he so chooses.

I don't really like the idea of being limited by a carrier and manufacturer as to how long I will be able to update my phone. Current fragmentation is not something to be seen as a positive from where I sit.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Mission, if your device (lets say the D2 you cite in your post) was perpetually updated as well as every other phone and the new phone coming out had the same version as the one you have, would you have paid to upgrade again anyway? I highly doubt it. The lack of upgrades is driving the market for Android right now because people don't just buy the latest and greatest for no reason, they want the new new because it's great. Their devices slow, batteries age and diminish charge, RAM is full, force closes, features are lackluster and most of all they're stuck on old Android. Moving forward this isn't that important anymore. Buying a new device now isn't going to be junk in a year as the market has driven it before because specs are reaching high levels. 2gigs of ram is more than enough. 600-800 processor is more than enough. OEM's software overlays are more than enough to customize your phone without having to root and mod. Phones no longer benefit from screaming faster processors and more gigs of RAM. It's all about the software optimization now and Android is already there. Updates in the future will likely pertain more to security than features.

I was an avid rooter though all my android experience from the D1 forward and I don't even miss it with the G2. I don't think I'll ever have to root, and paying retail I planned on selling the device in a year to offset new device costs but now I'm second guessing that idea, I think I'll treat this one like a car and drive it till the wheels come off. Once other people start looking at the similarities between this years phones and the phones of two years from now, I'm thinking a lot more will will hold on to their money forcing their money south.

But time will tell. I predict that fragmentation won't get better, but actually get worse as people keep their older devices longer for a lack of serious incentive to upgrade again and again.

 

[MissionImprobable]

Mission, if your device (lets say the D2 you cite in your post) was perpetually updated as well as every other phone and the new phone coming out had the same version as the one you have, would you have paid to upgrade again anyway? I highly doubt it. The lack of upgrades is driving the market for Android right now because people don't just buy the latest and greatest for no reason, they want the new new because it's great. Their devices slow, batteries age and diminish charge, RAM is full, force closes, features are lackluster and most of all they're stuck on old Android. Moving forward this isn't that important anymore. Buying a new device now isn't going to be junk in a year as the market has driven it before because specs are reaching high levels. 2gigs of ram is more than enough. 600-800 processor is more than enough. OEM's software overlays are more than enough to customize your phone without having to root and mod. Phones no longer benefit from screaming faster processors and more gigs of RAM. It's all about the software optimization now and Android is already there. Updates in the future will likely pertain more to security than features.

I was an avid rooter though all my android experience from the D1 forward and I don't even miss it with the G2. I don't think I'll ever have to root, and paying retail I planned on selling the device in a year to offset new device costs but now I'm second guessing that idea, I think I'll treat this one like a car and drive it till the wheels come off. Once other people start looking at the similarities between this years phones and the phones of two years from now, I'm thinking a lot more will will hold on to their money forcing their money south.

But time will tell. I predict that fragmentation won't get better, but actually get worse as people keep their older devices longer for a lack of serious incentive to upgrade again and again.

I got your original point. I don't expect updates forever, just saying that Apple's model is better in that regard. The iPhone 4 was released at the same time as the D2, and while it does not have every feature of iOS 7 enabled with the upgrade, the 4 has the majority of them. From an outside perspective, which company has addressed longevity better? As one article put it, "That's not half bad, given that Android-based contemporaries like Samsung's original Galaxy S or the Nexus One have to rely on the hacker community for any kind of software support at this point (and even then, it can be spotty)." Nice to note that those aren't locked down to nearly the extent that the Droid 2 is and even those devices don't have official JB releases. Google Now will run quite well on my phone initially, but over time because the devs had to hack it for spreading across devices it overwhelms the RAM due to lack of device-specific coding and becomes a pain. If done correctly great features like this wouldn't have to be lost for legacy phones.

I understand that these devices aren't meant to last forever and that over time you simply will have diminishing returns, but again it is the fragmentation of Android that causes a number of the issues we face. It would be no different than if Acer, HP, Dell, etc controlled SP updates to Windows rather than MS; nothing good would come of that. Carrier bloat and lack of optimization only further compound the problem.

 

[pc747]

I got your original point. I don't expect updates forever, just saying that Apple's model is better in that regard. The iPhone 4 was released at the same time as the D2, and while it does not have every feature of iOS 7 enabled with the upgrade, the 4 has the majority of them. From an outside perspective, which company has addressed longevity better? As one article put it, "That's not half bad, given that Android-based contemporaries like Samsung's original Galaxy S or the Nexus One have to rely on the hacker community for any kind of software support at this point (and even then, it can be spotty)." Nice to note that those aren't locked down to nearly the extent that the Droid 2 is and even those devices don't have official JB releases. Google Now will run quite well on my phone initially, but over time because the devs had to hack it for spreading across devices it overwhelms the RAM due to lack of device-specific coding and becomes a pain. If done correctly great features like this wouldn't have to be lost for legacy phones.

I understand that these devices aren't meant to last forever and that over time you simply will have diminishing returns, but again it is the fragmentation of Android that causes a number of the issues we face. It would be no different than if Acer, HP, Dell, etc controlled SP updates to Windows rather than MS; nothing good would come of that. Carrier bloat and lack of optimization only further compound the problem.

I believe Google tried to help address this issue by releasing its own nexus device so they can control it. Problem is that though the nexus garner a fan base it does not have that glitter factor that will bring the fans. Plus customers over time know who and who do not update. I remember when the Samsung Fascinate came out and Samsung got the rep of not supporting their devices and they took a hit for that. As a result they began to do a better job with that along with providing the eye candy to bring in the average customer base. You right that we need to get to a point with android where we can get beyond fragmentation. I just do not see it likely because of custom skins. If every one had a nexus or nexus like (aka google edition) device then it would be easier to update. But with manufacturer skins plus carrier bloat all of it has to be tested before it can be pushed, that taking in account the carrier do not hold the update so they can push another device. Sadly google does not control that, the only device they can have complete control of the software is with the nexus (unless it is on Verizon :angry: ). At the rate google has been pumping out software (especially this year) it is hard to expect the manufacturers to keep up along with some app devs at times. If manufacturers could get around the carriers' red tape then maybe they can pump out updates a little faster but the reality is manufacturers play the game as well. One thing I give Apple credit for is that a few days before they have a big release for their new i-device they push out the latest software to the previous models. Android manufacturers, including Samsung, hold the update until they sell their new phone and then a few months later update. To me this is what helps the resale value of the iphone along with the fact they are not pumping out a new device every other month bringing down the market for their product. Android manufacturers need to take care of the customers they have because if I see that manufacturer A updates their device for at least a year and a half while manufacturer B pushes one maintenance fix then I am less likely to buy a product from Manufacturer B. One of the reasons I chose my note 2 last year because I looked at 2 gigs of ram and a quad core processor as forward thinking and specs wise should be able to handle future updates for at least 2 years vs Motorola at the time who's phone had outdated specs and had me worried that last year's razr would be like the bionic and the d4 where motorola stopped supporting the device.

I do think that the moment that manufacturers choose to no longer support the device give the user the option to go google experience and allow them to get their update from google for as long as their device can support the latest google software. This would be fair all around. But like Hugh Jass pointed out, manufacturers are looking to find a way to get Joe to buy the next device and it is easier to feel like they need a new device when manufacturers make it seem like the phone is outdated and can not handle the next software that way they can bank on Joe and his family buying a new phone every other year vs holding on to it like a flip phone where they wait use it for years and years until it just quit working.