Motorola: What Apps do users want? Gets Over 10k Votes 4 Unlocked Bootloader instead

[sbenson]

Also, I'm sure they're probably tee'ed off at how many people are still rocking the og droid. They would love for you to upgrade to a locked down phone, get tired of it prematurely and then buy the next great thing. It's a vicious cycle and they know what they're doing. Instead of releasing a powerhouse, cutting edge, unlocked phone that we could happily run for 1-3 years (or whatever), they'll continue to release mediocre devices to satisfy the masses who don't know any better. We have to face the fact that we're the minority here, and that millions of users aren't power users.

 

[Maverick0984]

I can't help but point out that everyone is saying that the rooting community is the minority when talking about an overall userbase. Obviously, this is true.

However, those same people talk about the pitfalls of illegally tethering and false returns for warranty on devices.

Does this seem like incorrect logic to anyone else? In one argument, rooters are miniscule, and in the next instant, we are returning so many phones and stealing so much data that we are destroying them.

I dunno, just an objective observation. Pick one side, we're either small or huge. We can't be both.

Obviously I root, but I use MAYBE 1.5GB in data a month, so this isn't some massive tethering person whining. Just food for thought.

 

[Backnblack]

Does this seem like incorrect logic to anyone else? In one argument, rooters are miniscule, and in the next instant, we are returning so many phones and stealing so much data that we are destroying them.

There are users who have had 10+ devices.....

 

[czerdrill]

I can't help but point out that everyone is saying that the rooting community is the minority when talking about an overall userbase. Obviously, this is true.

However, those same people talk about the pitfalls of illegally tethering and false returns for warranty on devices.

Does this seem like incorrect logic to anyone else? In one argument, rooters are miniscule, and in the next instant, we are returning so many phones and stealing so much data that we are destroying them.

I dunno, just an objective observation. Pick one side, we're either small or huge. We can't be both.

Obviously I root, but I use MAYBE 1.5GB in data a month, so this isn't some massive tethering person whining. Just food for thought.

If one person returns a device falsely or illegally tether, verizon loses money. it doesn't matter if they're losing $1 or $1M, no company is going to stand by and just let people defraud them and not do something about it regardless of how small the group that's defrauding them are...

 

[Maverick0984]

Does this seem like incorrect logic to anyone else? In one argument, rooters are miniscule, and in the next instant, we are returning so many phones and stealing so much data that we are destroying them.

There are users who have had 10+ devices.....

That would be the minority though, minority of a minority.

I can't help but point out that everyone is saying that the rooting community is the minority when talking about an overall userbase. Obviously, this is true.

However, those same people talk about the pitfalls of illegally tethering and false returns for warranty on devices.

Does this seem like incorrect logic to anyone else? In one argument, rooters are miniscule, and in the next instant, we are returning so many phones and stealing so much data that we are destroying them.

I dunno, just an objective observation. Pick one side, we're either small or huge. We can't be both.

Obviously I root, but I use MAYBE 1.5GB in data a month, so this isn't some massive tethering person whining. Just food for thought.

If one person returns a device falsely or illegally tether, verizon loses money. it doesn't matter if they're losing $1 or $1M, no company is going to stand by and just let people defraud them and not do something about it regardless of how small the group that's defrauding them are...

Yes, I understand that completely. I'm not arguing that. You're missing my point. If Motorola/VZW doesn't have to unlock a bootloader because it is the minority that wants it done, why are they worried about the same minority doing anything?

 

[Maverick0984]

Wish I could edit in the News section, darn.

I want to make sure that everyone knows I'm not trying to say Moto/VZW is wrong in handling things the way they are. That isn't my argument at all. If it were my business, I'd likely do the same.

Just in a general stance, you can't claim minority in one situation, and huge money changer in another. It isn't a logical pair of arguments. Both are fine on their own merits, but together, they contradict.

 

[czerdrill]

Does this seem like incorrect logic to anyone else? In one argument, rooters are miniscule, and in the next instant, we are returning so many phones and stealing so much data that we are destroying them.

There are users who have had 10+ devices.....

That would be the minority though, minority of a minority.

I can't help but point out that everyone is saying that the rooting community is the minority when talking about an overall userbase. Obviously, this is true.

However, those same people talk about the pitfalls of illegally tethering and false returns for warranty on devices.

Does this seem like incorrect logic to anyone else? In one argument, rooters are miniscule, and in the next instant, we are returning so many phones and stealing so much data that we are destroying them.

I dunno, just an objective observation. Pick one side, we're either small or huge. We can't be both.

Obviously I root, but I use MAYBE 1.5GB in data a month, so this isn't some massive tethering person whining. Just food for thought.

If one person returns a device falsely or illegally tether, verizon loses money. it doesn't matter if they're losing $1 or $1M, no company is going to stand by and just let people defraud them and not do something about it regardless of how small the group that's defrauding them are...

Yes, I understand that completely. I'm not arguing that. You're missing my point. If Motorola/VZW doesn't have to unlock a bootloader because it is the minority that wants it done, why are they worried about the same minority doing anything?

Because the minority is costing them money...

Unlocking the bootloader doesnt benefit them in any way whatsoever.

 

[Maverick0984]

There are users who have had 10+ devices.....

That would be the minority though, minority of a minority.

If one person returns a device falsely or illegally tether, verizon loses money. it doesn't matter if they're losing $1 or $1M, no company is going to stand by and just let people defraud them and not do something about it regardless of how small the group that's defrauding them are...

Yes, I understand that completely. I'm not arguing that. You're missing my point. If Motorola/VZW doesn't have to unlock a bootloader because it is the minority that wants it done, why are they worried about the same minority doing anything?

Because the minority is costing them money...

Unlocking the bootloader doesnt benefit them in any way whatsoever.

But if it is just a small minority that they don't care about keeping happy, that really shouldn't effect their billion dollar industry. My logic is sound, but I also completely understand not wanting to be stolen from. If anything, what would make me happy would be "rooting users aren't really nearly as a minority as we think." That would make both arguments congruent.

 

[Gunslinger]

From the guy that started the Groubal on this, he claims to have been told by Motorola that they will be providing a XOOM-like unlocking for devices late this year.

"It is our intention to enable the unlockable/relockable bootloader currently found on Motorola XOOM across our portfolio of devices starting in late 2011, where carriers and operators will allow it."

Unlock Motorola | Facebook

 

[czerdrill]

That would be the minority though, minority of a minority.



Yes, I understand that completely. I'm not arguing that. You're missing my point. If Motorola/VZW doesn't have to unlock a bootloader because it is the minority that wants it done, why are they worried about the same minority doing anything?

Because the minority is costing them money...

Unlocking the bootloader doesnt benefit them in any way whatsoever.

But if it is just a small minority that they don't care about keeping happy, that really shouldn't effect their billion dollar industry. My logic is sound, but I also completely understand not wanting to be stolen from. If anything, what would make me happy would be "rooting users aren't really nearly as a minority as we think." That would make both arguments congruent.

you're not getting the point. i'm not saying that verizon is on the brink of bankruptcy because people are making false warranty returns, but again...it's costing them money...not sure why you dont get that. theyre not gonna just stand there and lose money regardless of how small it is when there is something they can do about it...

 

[Maverick0984]

Because the minority is costing them money...

Unlocking the bootloader doesnt benefit them in any way whatsoever.

But if it is just a small minority that they don't care about keeping happy, that really shouldn't effect their billion dollar industry. My logic is sound, but I also completely understand not wanting to be stolen from. If anything, what would make me happy would be "rooting users aren't really nearly as a minority as we think." That would make both arguments congruent.

you're not getting the point. i'm not saying that verizon is on the brink of bankruptcy because people are making false warranty returns, but again...it's costing them money...not sure why you dont get that. theyre not gonna just stand there and lose money regardless of how small it is when there is something they can do about it...

I didn't say you were saying they were going to go bankrupt. I also said several times already that stealing is bad, false warranty claims falls under that umbrella. I don't think you are fully understanding what I'm saying.

You can't concretely say they are losing money that they actually notice. If HTC provides unlocked bootloaders and Motorola does not, people will go to HTC. That will cause them to also lose money. If you tell me that that amount of people doesn't matter, then you can't turn around and tell me that the people using unlocked bootloaders does matter. It is the same group of people.

My argument is about the inconsistency of two arguments used often. Not about whether they want or don't want to loose money. Of course they don't want to loose money. Once again, I am not arguing that or for that matter the actions they take. It is the inconsistency of *our* arguments in the community that I am taking exception with. Please understand this.

You cannot be a minority in case A and a majority in case B, with no other variables changing. It isn't logical.

 

[Maverick0984]

Ugh, lose instead of loose in all situations in my above post >_<

 

[czerdrill]

But if it is just a small minority that they don't care about keeping happy, that really shouldn't effect their billion dollar industry. My logic is sound, but I also completely understand not wanting to be stolen from. If anything, what would make me happy would be "rooting users aren't really nearly as a minority as we think." That would make both arguments congruent.

you're not getting the point. i'm not saying that verizon is on the brink of bankruptcy because people are making false warranty returns, but again...it's costing them money...not sure why you dont get that. theyre not gonna just stand there and lose money regardless of how small it is when there is something they can do about it...

I didn't say you were saying they were going to go bankrupt. I also said several times already that stealing is bad, false warranty claims falls under that umbrella. I don't think you are fully understanding what I'm saying.

You can't concretely say they are losing money that they actually notice. If HTC provides unlocked bootloaders and Motorola does not, people will go to HTC. That will cause them to also lose money. If you tell me that that amount of people doesn't matter, then you can't turn around and tell me that the people using unlocked bootloaders does matter. It is the same group of people.

My argument is about the inconsistency of two arguments used often. Not about whether they want or don't want to loose money. Of course they don't want to loose money. Once again, I am not arguing that or for that matter the actions they take. It is the inconsistency of *our* arguments in the community that I am taking exception with. Please understand this.

You cannot be a minority in case A and a majority in case B, with no other variables changing. It isn't logical.

haha...i dont understand how you can say "money that they'll actually notice". do you think in their fiscal plan they've set aside money that doesn't matter, the loss of which of they will ignore?

There is no inconsistency. rooters are the minority in case A because case A is "how many of verizon's customer's root", and they may be (I don't have numbers to prove it either way) the majority in case B because case B is "how many rooters commit warranty/insurance fraud". you're looking at two different demographics. they're not a 1:1 comparison, and not a 1:1 base.

The number of people in the world who have one hand may not be the majority compared to the rest of the world, but the number of people who have one hand who also don't commit crimes may be a majority in that one handed person demographic. extremely stupid example, i know, but that's what's going on here. you can't compare to different demographics and try to apply the same logic to both.

you also can't just say losing money doesn't affect them enough to notice. of course it does. if they can prevent revenue loss with no investment on their part even if it's 1 dollar of loss why would they just ignore it? that's not a sound business plan.

To be honest, i don't even see how it's relevant if or not the rooters are a majority. Even though they're clearly not, it wouldnt matter if they were. If they're committing warranty/insurance fraud, someone somewhere is losing money, and it's not a "meh, thats a barely noticeable loss, let's ignore it" situation.

 

[dfuser312553]

This poll is the best thing Moto has put out since the D1.

 

[czerdrill]

^lawlz, it's second to the throttle mod only