No GPS?

[Bear in NM]

As a private investigator we use GPS tracking units in some of our work. Believe me the "Assisted" or terms some others are using is an upgrade.
They are not going backwards. You want this.

The antenna's are not shared. The units we use combine a GPS unit and a GSM radio on channels 850/1900 (United States) 900/1800 (Europe, Australia, & Middle East).

This combination makes it almost impossible to loose a position due to lost signal because if one is not present the other is. As I posted before, we can place the unit anywhere on the vehicle, inside or out and still track it. The stand alone GPS units we used to use had to be placed with the antenna upward, not covered by metal to be anywhere near reliable. We have placed one of these units in a shrewd subjects spare tire inside his trunk and still tracked him.

I would be more troubled if the unit had a stand alone GPS.

Rock,

Thanks for the clarification. It was wiki that defined simultaneous GPS as antenna sharing, but the terms definately can be confusing. I cannot remember the number of threads when the D1 first came out trying to define and clarify, as we had lots of folks with GPS problems that assumed that you needed data to have GPS and/or data to get an initial fix.

Those were two thngs that I checked from the get go on my D1, and it was a bit of work trying to keep the folks straight. And we both agree no chance in heck any maker would not have stand alone GPS as a feature on a newer phone. Especially with google maps being able to cache maps, and enough third party programs to do the same, it would not only be a potential liability issue (safety) but hobbling of a core function (maps/nav). what ever term they use for it.

Craig

 

[therock]

There is also another thing they are doing to make a Time To Fix faster to aid with 911 calls. That and the combined thing may be one in the same for all I know.

All I can say is before combined we had to retrieve the unit and download the tracks. Now we track live.

 

[Bear in NM]

Dark,

I would have a hard time believing that it could not pull gps coordinate data without a data connection. My case in point is that there are a ton of places around me, very rural, where I get cell phone reception with zero data. Yes, these places do exist, trust me And in these places, in my case we are talking about probably one cell tower to make the phone connection. Perhaps 2 along say a higway, but even with 2 towers you cannot get a precise fix with just triangulation. Perhaps the hardware at the tower can pull some rough azimuth/anguler data from the phone signal, but if you look at a cellular array there is not a great way to nail this down, I do not think. Two towers would give a potential for two reasonably precise fixes, but by definition to disatnce computations yields two possible solutions, and this would require some pretty high tech stuff happening for a cell tower to pull distances from a signal. When you are left with just angular(azimuth) data then I have a hard time believing amything cose to precise would work. So for 911 or general tracking safety, to tie GPS to data only, would be crazy. But we shall see.

Rock, I can only say that a gps receiver locked in a metal compartment will not get a signal sufficient for precise location. It could be possible to get a GPS signal to a receiver whereby the signal is bounced off pavement or buildings to a unit that had a less than optimal position for the antenna, but the GPS wavelength has not changed since inception. Just more birds in the sky. And better software in the recievers to deal with these conditions. In my line of work, bounced signals are very bad juju. I would have to think a unit in a trunk, in a tire with metal belts would require way more than just a raw GPS position. Especially if the receiver were moving. The early gps units had a hard time keeping up with me in a ragtop Jeep. Nowadays, I can pull a signal in my house/office, under a propanel (metal) roof.

Craig

 

[therock]

Your into it way more than I am. All I know is this guy was constantly sweeping his ride and the spouse was paying us big time. We got her to drive it to us and gave it a try and it tracked.
A few times we got 10 minute intervals instead of 10 seconds but we go to the truth.

 

[Bear in NM]

Rock,

Yea, I go back to pretty much to day one of civilian GPS use, but I guarandamtee you it ain't near as interesting as what you are doing with it. I was raised in Augusta Georgia and Anniston Alabama, and would love to buy you a beer some time, just to hear the stories.......I bet you have lot of very cool "toys".

Craig

 

[therock]

There are times we stare at an apartment door for 8 hours and nothing happens but but most of the time we are there because they already know somethings a-miss and we get to document it. I love it when the guys go to the strip bars.

 

[Bear in NM]

Let me guess, gps? check. Long range lense? Check. Night vision bino's? check. Stack of dollar bills? Check. We better stop before one of us gets banned. But this is more fun than Bionic v. whatever threads. Oh, I checked out your truck. I can match one thing with my Jeep, 100 watt high beams. Otherwise, you are smokin' with that ride.

Craig

 

[Preach2k]

After doing a search about The A-GPS and the S-GPSthis is what I found...

AGPS is "Assisted GPS" and like Icon said, it uses your data network to assist in locating your position. AGPS is usually used in conjunction with regular GPS, for example when you open maps, APGS gets your general location first before the regular GPS locks onto your position.

SGPS will work without network coverage, AGPS will not.

More Info:

Proper A-GPS, as was already stated, is always used in conjunction with a full GPS chip. Early days of cell phones had a bastardized implementation where there was no real GPS chip and you would only get approximate locations. This isn't technically A-GPS but that term was used for it.

Now a days A-GPS properly refers to a GPS chip that is assisted by the much higher power (compared to GPS signal) terrestrial cell network. Its sole purpose is to use the terrestrial network to help you get a GPS lock faster than you would otherwise.

S-GPS is relatively newer in phones and stands for Simultaneous GPS. In the traditional implementation the GPS receiver shares a single RF Front End with the cellular network receiver. They each take turns using the shared components. In S-GPS There are two RF front ends so both GPS and the cell network can be receiving 100% of the time. The benefit for GPS is that its more accurate since its getting more data. Depending on the implementation you could also get the Benefits of A-GPS within S-GPS.

So neither A-GPS nor S-GPS need network coverage to work, but it does help improve the speed of your GPS lock.

 

[darkmatter]

good info. though it brings up the question of why the photon has stand alone and simultaneous gps, since it seems simultaneous also functions like stand alone?

 

[Bear in NM]

Dark,

If I had to fathom a guess it would be that like 4g "standards" there is some wiggle room in the actual implementation. So they list something in the specs that sort of makes sense so the average joe looking at them sees some terms that might be understood. They only have short space to list the spec's, and the last thing they need is a blog assumption that this or that is missing, when in reality the same (or better) functionality is there. Just a wag?

Craig

 

[GPtimes2]

Data plan usage?

Do you guys think/know if you will be able to use the GPS without the assist to keep from using data? I will be on the teired plan with a new smartphone and wouldn't want to use it all the time. Thanks for info!

 

[Snow02]

Do you guys think/know if you will be able to use the GPS without the assist to keep from using data? I will be on the teired plan with a new smartphone and wouldn't want to use it all the time. Thanks for info!

Surely. I can't imagine a scenario where that wouldn't be the case.

 

[Bear in NM]

I would think that the only real data that would be transmitted when just using GPS would be minimal, unless you have Navigation open, or are using Google maps or perhaps if the GPS application downloads ads.

On my D1, I use #3282 to have Verizon text my current useage to my phone.

Craig