Swelling battery

[TJ Hanna]

And, thinking of your earlier post, Is there any evidence of a crack in the screen?

My screen is flawless. I have had a screen protector on it again since i have owned it.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums

 

[FoxKat]

Remove the battery and trash it. Its integrity has been compromised. Lithium ion batteries can ignite or explode when this happens.

I know this from years of experience crashing radio controlled planes and damaging batteries powered by this technology.

DO NOT TAKE ANY CHANCES WITH A SWELLING BATTERY. CHUCK IT SAFELY AND GET A NEW ONE. AND ABOVE ALL, DO NOT TRY TO CHARGE IT.

HowStuffWorks "Lithium-ion Battery Life and Death"


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

First off, we haven't even determined conclusively if the battery has swelled as suspected. I can pop open the corner the OP is referring to on my phone with my thumb nail and it will stay open unless I snap it shut again. With a slight twisting motion I can do the same thing.

As far as removing the battery and disposing of it, that is best left to the experts. If the battery is suspected of having swelled, and the case will not remain shut if snapped together again, then the phone should be returned to a Verizon Phone Center Store, NOT an authorized Verizon dealer for replacement.

 

[FoxKat]

Just a few quick questions;

What is your normal charging process, meaning do you charge frequently or once a day, and do you let the phone battery die or charge before?
Have you practiced any "training" of the battery by either allowing it to drain fully, or trying to "bump" charge the phone?
When charging, is the phone powered on or off?
When charging is the phone still in the case, and if so what kind?
When charging are you using the stock Motorola charger, a USB adapter to a computer, or a third party charger?
When charging, have you noticed the phone getting excessively hot?
Do you leave the phone in direct sunlight, such as on a dashboard of a car or truck for periods of time during the day?
When using the phone, is it not only in the case, but also in a bag, pocket or briefcase and simply being accessed through the Bluetooth?

Answers to these questions will help us ALL to identify and avoid any things we may think are normal, which could contribute to battery failures.

Thanks.

Replies numbered below...

1. I charge my phone for about 4 to 5 hrs at night. I work from 630am to 5pm. I always have to put it on a charger at work for about an hr at work as well to get me thru the day. I have never let the phone [die]. If it get to low i shut the phone off.

• Great, this is what the manufacturer has expected most people to do, and has designed the charging circuitry to handle this type of varying charge length and frequency.

2. When i first got the phone i allowed it to die completely as i have always been told to do with new phones.

• This unfortunately is a carryover from the "old days" of Nickel Cadmium (NiCd) batteries, which had a problem known as "memory", and isn't even the proper procedure for NiCd batteries either. There is NO benefit whatsoever to draining a brand new NiCd OR Lithium Ion/Lithium Ion Polymer (LI or LIPO) battery to its cutoff level for the device, and in the case of NiCd batteries would only be beneficial if the battery had begun to develop the "memory", usually after months of improper use/charging procedures.
• This "memory" would only be an issue with NiCd batteries if someone had been routinely using less than a full charge (i.e. 50%), and then fully charging over many cycles. Eventually the battery would take on a capacity for charge that would be about 50% and the device would begin to run out of charge half-way through the expected capacity. By draining fully and then charging through several cycles, you could "push" the capacity back to near what it was originally.

3. The phone has always been on when charging.

• Although this isn't necessarily considered "improper", it is known that the battery may not actually receive a full "100%" capacity charge while the phone is on since by using power the phone can confuse the charging circuitry into thinking it has identified a signature drop in current draw which it is looking for to signal the last phase of charging, and as a result will mistakenly reduce the rate of charge to "top off" the battery but will not actually saturate the battery. This can cause the battery to actually have somewhere on the order of 85%-90% charge level even after the "100%" charge indicator appears signaling a complete charge.
• Since LI/LIPO batteries MUST be removed from charge once they have reached their capacity (or near capacity) to prevent stressing of the battery, thereby shortening it's useful life and possibly risking catastrophic failure, the circuitry shuts down charging (you may notice NO lightening bolt on the battery indicator even when plugged in after a period of time). As a result, what you believe to be a fully charged battery may not provide power for as long as you would expect.
• In order to assure a full charge, you should power down the phone BEFORE plugging in, and allow the Charge Only mode to charge the battery to 100%. You may wish to do this once every few days or so to assure you are getting the best possible results from your phone, and to reset the battery's meter to properly display relative remaining capacity.

4. The phone has always been in a case since i have gotten it in November. Only have taken it out a few times to clean the dust and dirt out from between the phone and the case. I am using the VZW shell/holster combo with kickstand.

• Although it may not be a big problem charging while in the case, the heat generated both while charging and also while using can't escape as easily and so the temperature of the battery may rise above what is considered acceptable ranges (typically below 113F). Heat is your battery's worst enemy. If the battery remains above 113F for any extended periods of time it accelerates the battery's aging process (much the same as with just about anything else). If it has been charged in this manner repeatedly over many cycles, the effect may also cause the battery to produce excess gasses which can cause the battery to swell.

5. I am using the stock charger that came the phone. And i have a VZW duel car charger. My work uses all Verizon phones for their drivers so when charging the phone at work i am also using VZW wall chargers.

• Good news. Using ONLY approved chargers or the USB ports on computers (which have highly regulated power supplies), or portable "battery boosters" which are powered by batteries will prevent any damage to the battery.

6. There has been a few times while the phone is charging that i have noticed that the phone has gotten really hot. I pulled it off the charger and let it cool down every time i noticed it.

• As described above, this is bad for this type of battery. The fact that it has happened at times and you noticed it, leads someone to suggest it could also have happened at other times when you didn't notice it, such as during the nighttime sleeping charge cycles. This could contribute to shortening of the battery's lifespan and may also contribute to generation of excess gasses which can cause the battery to swell.

7. I never leave the phone in direct sunlight. If i do leave it in my work truck or in my car for any reason then i make sure it is a shaded part of that vehicle.

• The temperature inside a car can rise VERY quickly and reach deadly temperatures, even with all 4 windows cracked. The charts below show outside temperatures and comparison of inside a car, first with all 4 windows closed, then with all 4 windows cracked. The charts stop at 12:00 noon and 1:00pm since these studies were done in a climate where outdoor temperatures reached well above 100F, so using 101F as a max temperature results in cutoff at those times. The heading "Indoor/Outdoor" is to identify the type of thermometer used, simply for relative accuracy measures. Also, even if the temperature outdoors doesn't continue to climb the temperatures inside the car can still climb several degrees more.

[TABLE="class: study, width: 100%"]
[TR="bgcolor: #d5d5d5"]
[TD="width: 50%, bgcolor: #f59204, colspan: 2"]Outside Temperature

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%, bgcolor: #dd5d19, colspan: 2"]Inside Closed Automobile

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ededed"]
[TD="width: 50%, colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]Indoor/Outdoor
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]Oven Thermometer
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #d5d5d5"]
[TD="width: 25%"]9:00 am
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]82°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]109°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]----
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ededed"]
[TD="width: 25%"]9:30 am
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]87°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]115°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]----
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #d5d5d5"]
[TD="width: 25%"]10:00 am
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]91°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]115°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]----
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ededed"]
[TD="width: 25%"]10:30 am
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]94°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]114°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]115°
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #d5d5d5"]
[TD="width: 25%"]11:00 am
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]98°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]114°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]119°
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ededed"]
[TD="width: 25%"]11:30 am
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]100°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]117°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]124°
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #d5d5d5"]
[TD="width: 25%"]12:00 pm
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]101°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]119°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]127°
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]





[TABLE="class: study, width: 100%"]
[TR="bgcolor: #d5d5d5"]
[TD="width: 50%, bgcolor: #f59204, colspan: 2"]Outside Temperature

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%, bgcolor: #dd5d19, colspan: 2"]Inside Auto - 4 Windows Cracked

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ededed"]
[TD="width: 50%, colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]Indoor/Outdoor
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]Oven Thermometer
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #d5d5d5"]
[TD="width: 25%"]9:15 am
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]84°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]98°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]98°
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ededed"]
[TD="width: 25%"]10:00 am
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]88°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]103°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]105°
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #d5d5d5"]
[TD="width: 25%"]10:30 am
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]90°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]108°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]108°
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ededed"]
[TD="width: 25%"]11:00 am
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]92°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]109°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]109°
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #d5d5d5"]
[TD="width: 25%"]12:00 pm
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]95°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]113°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]113°
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ededed"]
[TD="width: 25%"]1:00 pm
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]101°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]114°
[/TD]
[TD="width: 25%"]115°
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

• With summertime coming, this is something we all should be aware of and try to avoid.

8. I dont use Bluetooths (cant stand them) so the phone is always in its case when im using it. I do however have the car dock in my car for this phone. I do use that for time to time..

• The car dock, being BLACK, gets very hot since it is typically attached to the windshield glass via suction cup. With the phone in a case, and then the entire phone and case in the dock, it's actually like placing the phone in an oven inside a pot, where the pot prevents heat from escaping around the phone, and the oven prevents the pot from allowing thermal conductive cooling or worse.

I am only giving these evaluations for the benefit of everyone with a phone who has a Lithium based battery. There may be naysayers who step in to dispute my comments but nearly all of what I say here is backed by scientific studies (including the car temperatures), and most of the battery specific information comes almost verbatim from one of the most well-respected battery analyzer manufacturers in the world, and a great resource for information regarding batteries in general, www.batteryuniversity.com which is maintained by Cadex, Inc.


To the OP, if your back of the phone is visibly swelled, or if when you snap that corner back down it immediately pops back open, I suggest you do have battery damage. In your case, you've already contacted Verizon and they are sending a replacement, so the point is moot for you, however if this type of situation develops for anyone else, as Floyd above says, first DO NOT charge the battery any more. Some RC enthusiasts will tell you that even slightly puffed up batteries can be used but they are far more careful about how they charge their batteries than we are, and they're not going to be putting those batteries in their pockets or near their faces.

Second, make sure the phone is placed somewhere that is not a risk for fire, such as a concrete step or patio. Third, take the phone to a Phone Center Store as soon as possible, and depending on how severe the bulging, you may want to place the phone inside a metal container during transport for added protection. Forth, if the battery discharges any gasses, DO NOT breate them in, move the phone quickly to a non-flamable area or metal container and take outside immediately, and ventilate the area where the gasses were first discharged.

 

[ablank]

Mine as well Zander.

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[zomnomnombie]

I have always considered battery swelling to be due to overcharge but I thought this was not possible on modern devices/chargers?

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[TJ Hanna]

I have always considered battery swelling to be due to overcharge but I thought this was not possible on modern devices/chargers?

Sent from my DROID2 using DroidForums

I always thought that to.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums

 

[FoxKat]

I have always considered battery swelling to be due to overcharge but I thought this was not possible on modern devices/chargers?

Sent from my DROID2 using DroidForums

Actually it can happen as a result of charging OR discharging, and then the question is what about the charge/discharge cycle is it that causes the swelling? From BatteryUniversity.com;

Pouch packs are commonly Li-polymer. Its specific energy is often lower and the cell is less durable than Li-ion in the cylindrical package. Swelling or bulging as a result of gas generation during charge and discharge is a concern. Battery manufacturers insist that these batteries do not generate excess gases that can lead to swelling. Nevertheless, excess swelling can occur and most is due to faulty manufacturing, and not misuse. Some dealers have failures due to swelling of as much as three percent on certain batches. The pressure from swelling can crack a battery cover, and in some cases break the display and electronic circuit board. Manufacturers say that an inflated cell is safe. While this may be true, do not puncture a swollen cell in close proximity to heat or fire; the escaping gases can ignite. Figure 6 shows a swelled pouch cell.

Figure 6: Swelling pouch cell Swelling can occur as part of gas generation. Battery manufacturers are at odds why this happens. A 5mm (0.2”) battery in a hard shell can grow to 8mm (0.3”), more in a foil package. Courtesy of Cadex

To prevent swelling, the manufacturer adds excess film to create a “gas bag” outside the cell. During the first charge, gases escape into the gasbag, which is then cut off and the pack resealed as part of the finishing process. Expect some swelling on subsequent charges; 8 to 10 percent over 500 cycles is normal. Provision must be made in the battery compartment to allow for expansion. It is best not to stack pouch cells but to lay them flat side by side. Prevent sharp edges that could stress the pouch cell as they expand.



So it's safe to say that swelling can occur, and it can be as a result of charging/discharging, or a manufacturer's defect. Whatever the case, a swelled battery, one that has swelled beyond the "allow[ance] for expansion" should be considered a failed battery.

 

[floyd]

Nice to see that this forum is carefully monitored by Motorola/Verizon re dangerous battery issues. The last thing anyone would want to see is a smartphone user injured by a defective battery. Major hit on stock prices!

However, the low charge rates for mobile phones, coupled with latest embedded smart chip charging tech makes catastrophic failure highly unlikely.

But if your battery swells up, its integrity has been compromised, and it is dangerous. These batteries have extremely high energy density, and potential for fire and explosion when compromised. Korean manufacturing standards are excellent, but it's best not to take chances. Voice of experience, here.

Can't believe Apple store "geniuses" don't replace swollen batteries immediately for free. Google it. Unbelievable stupidity.

Please play smart and be safe.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[FoxKat]

Please play smart and be safe.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

Excellent post. As I've said before as well, the risk of catastrophic failure with these newest Lithium Ion Polymer batteries is certainly higher than with the older Nickel Metal Hydride and Nickel Cadmium batteries, but there are many safeguards in place to prevent or minimize the risk of such events as Floyd points out.

Still, a certain amount of common sense should be exercised when you see something out of the ordinary. Err on the side of caution and leave the decision as to whether the problem is real to the experts.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[mchoffa]

I've had 2 Droid X batteries swell up. The first time I noticed was after I hadn't used it in a couple months. I plugged it in to charge and noticed a big "wet spot" under the screen, which I googled and found to be due to swelling battery. Sure enough, my battery was swollen up and I could barely get the battery cover off. I ordered a new battery, and it was fine for a couple months, until the phone completely discharged last weekend and I didn't use it for a couple days after that (it's an extra line). I just picked it up and noticed the same "wet spot" under the screen. The battery has indeed swollen up. Only a few days of being completely discharged and sitting in the phone and another battery is ruined. Pretty flawed battery design if you ask me. I can't even store it completely drained and unplugged for a few days?

 

[jason638]

I just had this happen to my OG Droid battery. I haven't used it since I got my Razr in November, i pulled it out of the drawer and the battery looked like a balloon ready to pop

 

[FoxKat]

I've had 2 Droid X batteries swell up. The first time I noticed was after I hadn't used it in a couple months. I plugged it in to charge and noticed a big "wet spot" under the screen, which I googled and found to be due to swelling battery. Sure enough, my battery was swollen up and I could barely get the battery cover off. I ordered a new battery, and it was fine for a couple months, until the phone completely discharged last weekend and I didn't use it for a couple days after that (it's an extra line). I just picked it up and noticed the same "wet spot" under the screen. The battery has indeed swollen up. Only a few days of being completely discharged and sitting in the phone and another battery is ruined. Pretty flawed battery design if you ask me. I can't even store it completely drained and unplugged for a few days?

I just had this happen to my OG Droid battery. I haven't used it since I got my Razr in November, i pulled it out of the drawer and the battery looked like a balloon ready to pop

It's actually recommended that if you intend to store Lithium Ion (or Lithium Ion Polymer) batteries, that they be stored at 40% charge (How to Store Batteries – Battery University ). The battery will self-discharge over time, so even if you do store it at 40% charge, it is also recommended that you check the levels on an infrequent basis and charge to 40% again as necessary, but NEVER let the battery sit at 0% for ANY length of time, and even better advice still is to avoid allowing the battery to dip much below 15% unless you are intent on getting to a charger soon and absolutely need that last 5-15% of power to get by until then.

It's not really a "flawed battery design" as you indicated mchoffa, but a mere characteristic of the chemistry in these batteries. They can be very dependable, provide high rates of power, and be long-lasting IF taken proper care of.

For more information on Lithium Ion batteries visit Lithium-based Batteries Information , and explore all the links to the left as well.

 

[destriyer751]

Motorola has said that the battery swells from time to time depending on how much the phone gets used..........Thats why if you press on the Motorola Logo on the back you may feel it push in a little and hear a sticking noise.....At least they told me that when I called and complained because mine did the same thing

 

[floyd]

Y'all are nuts not taking a swollen battery seriously. You are probably in the 1% of product failures, but when lithium-ion batteries fail it can be a serious release of energy. Swap it out immediately or get a new phone.

Just sayin.

 

[FoxKat]

Y'all are nuts not taking a swollen battery seriously. You are probably in the 1% of product failures, but when lithium-ion batteries fail it can be a serious release of energy. Swap it out immediately or get a new phone.

Just sayin.

I agree 100% with Floyd that a swollen LI or LIPO battery is a potential time-bomb. These batteries can begin a process called "thermal runaway" which can then result in a rupture or explosion followed by volatile gasses being released and the spontaneous eruption of extremely high temperature, torch-like flames. If a LI/LIPO battery is swollen it is a sign that the battery has been stressed beyond its recommended charging rate, maximum voltage, remained at a high level of charge for an extended period of time, was allowed to reach high temperatures during charging or use, or has an internal failure which is producing excess gas expansion.

I would take NO chances with a swollen LI/LIPO battery and be sure NOT to leave it indoors and near any flammable objects or near humans or animals.