Verizon Planning on "Turbo" Network Speed Mode with Micro-Transaction Tiered Data

[sb1831]

1) Yes, dirty trick when they call a plan "Unlimited" to begin with. And after you sign the contract, they decide to change the terms to make unlimited equal 5GB. Then a few months later they decide to change the definition again and call 2GB unlimited. They are the ones advertising all the things you can do with unlimited plans. Downloading music, streaming video, harnessing the power of blah, blah, blah... And then when you do all those things that they promoted and used to lure you into that device and plan, they turn around and tell you that you are using "too much" and charge you more? It is a classic bait and switch.

2) I signed a contract. They keep changing it after I signed it and what they are doing now is NOT what I signed up for. That said, they should let me out of my contract, as the current one is not what I signed for. I realize that they have to right to just do whatever they want to the contract, but they should be forced to let me opt out when they change it into something that I do not agree with, did not sign for and would never sign for.

3) Users like you "paying whatever they ask" is *why* they are doing this. 2GB isn't much data over the course of a month. It only takes 2 hours of Netflix *PER WEEK* to put you over that limit, not including anything else you might do. 2GB in today's world with phones like these, isn't that much if you use the phone as it was intended, as a multimedia device. Yes, most people just use it as a phone and to check Facebook, but why should I be penalized because I use it the way it was designed, the way it was sold to me and as outlined by the contract THAT I SIGNED? What we are pissed about is them constantly changing the contract AFTER we signed it, in order to charge us more and deliver less than both parties originally agreed to.

How you can defend that is beyond me...

LOL Really?
1. Please tell me how the fact that they selectively throttle certain individuals means that a person still by definition does not in fact unlimited data. Also, please educate yourself about the true meaning of bait and switch.

We further reserve the right to take measures to protect our network and other users from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance. These measures may impact your service, and we reserve the right to deny, modify or terminate service, with or without notice, to anyone we believe is using Data Plans or Features in a manner that adversely impacts our network

2. You signed a contract. Did you happen to read it?

[h=4]Can Verizon Wireless Change This Agreement or My Service?[/h]

We may change prices or any other term of your Service or this agreement at any time,but we'll provide notice first, including written notice if you have Postpay Service. If you use your Service after the change takes effect, that means you're accepting the change. If you're a Postpay customer and a change to your Plan or this agreement has a material adverse effect on you, you can cancel the line of Service that has been affected within 60 days of receiving the notice with no Early Termination Fee.

3. I bought a smartphone so that I could email clients, make phone calls, view and edit documents, and browse the internet occasionally. In fact, I just went to the Verizon website and under Phones & Devices, NOWHERE is "wireless multimedia device" listed. I have satelite radio in my vehicle and can stream whatever I want on my tablet or notebook depending on which I have with me. Is it Verizon's fault that you attempt to replace several devices with one? Why would they sell and market tablets and netbooks still if they intended for a smartphone to truly replace all of those other things?


Please tell me how you can complain about things changing when the contract THAT YOU SIGNED clearly states that they will and can at any time. ​

 

[SquireSCA]

LOL Really?
1. Please tell me how the fact that they selectively throttle certain individuals means that a person still by definition does not in fact unlimited data. Also, please educate yourself about the true meaning of bait and switch.

We further reserve the right to take measures to protect our network and other users from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance. These measures may impact your service, and we reserve the right to deny, modify or terminate service, with or without notice, to anyone we believe is using Data Plans or Features in a manner that adversely impacts our network

2. You signed a contract. Did you happen to read it?

Can Verizon Wireless Change This Agreement or My Service?

We may change prices or any other term of your Service or this agreement at any time,but we'll provide notice first, including written notice if you have Postpay Service. If you use your Service after the change takes effect, that means you're accepting the change. If you're a Postpay customer and a change to your Plan or this agreement has a material adverse effect on you, you can cancel the line of Service that has been affected within 60 days of receiving the notice with no Early Termination Fee.

3. I bought a smartphone so that I could email clients, make phone calls, view and edit documents, and browse the internet occasionally. In fact, I just went to the Verizon website and under Phones & Devices, NOWHERE is "wireless multimedia device" listed. I have satelite radio in my vehicle and can stream whatever I want on my tablet or notebook depending on which I have with me. Is it Verizon's fault that you attempt to replace several devices with one? Why would they sell and market tablets and netbooks still if they intended for a smartphone to truly replace all of those other things?


Please tell me how you can complain about things changing when the contract THAT YOU SIGNED clearly states that they will and can at any time. ​

But that we are using it according to the way that they advertised it and sold it. I mean honestly, who actually sits down and reads all the fine print of a contract for a phone? When you buy an "Unlimited Data" plan, that was advertized on TV, radio and print as a means to "stream music and videos like never before, surf the web, share pictures and videos on Facebook, etc..." and more...

That was how they sold it. That was how they presented it. The call it Unlimited, knowing full well that it is anything but. But they market it a certain way to lure us in, and then once under contract they change the rules and start charging more and giving us less.

That's how I can complain.

They put a bunch of legal BS in there about "preserving the network" and all that to make it sound legit. Really? So as tons of people are getting LTE phones, and they are rolling out LTE in dozens of cities each month, why throttle 3G? Isn't the load on 3G easing up, as more and more people migrate to 4G?

This is BS, we both know it. It has to do with screwing us as much as possible to benefit the stock holders.

But yes, they buried that in the fine print so screwing customers is "legal"...

 

[jerkwad]

I mean honestly, who actually sits down and reads all the fine print of a contract for a phone?

wow - i don't think anyone is going to side with you on that one man.

When you buy an "Unlimited Data" plan, that was advertized on TV, radio and print as a means to "stream music and videos like never before, surf the web, share pictures and videos on Facebook, etc..." and more...

You CAN do this, are you unable to do so? There are limits to HOW MUCH of this you can do, according to Verizon, however (hence the throttling of abusive users).

That was how they sold it. That was how they presented it.

That's how I can complain.

just to throw fuel on the fire before the mods lock this one: Do you also complain to McDonald's because the cheeseburger doesn't look like the one on the billboard? ;-) It's market man.
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joking, kinda! ;-)

 

[SquireSCA]

wow - i don't think anyone is going to side with you on that one man.



You CAN do this, are you unable to do so? There are limits to HOW MUCH of this you can do, according to Verizon, however (hence the throttling of abusive users).



just to throw fuel on the fire before the mods lock this one: Do you also complain to McDonald's because the cheeseburger doesn't look like the one on the billboard? ;-) It's market man.
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joking, kinda! ;-)

The problem is that the contract just says that they can change it at their discretion. It isn't like they said, "We know that we sold you Unlimited, but we are going to limit that in 6 months and charge you more for it".... They just say that they can change things, like every contract does. If they said that they were going to take away Unlimited, throttle you and charge you more, nobody would ever sign it, would they?

So they just leave it open ended. Some changes we don't mind. But some are very shady and this is one of them.

Sorry that I wasn't a mind reader and believed them when they said that Unlimited users would be grandfathered and that they didn't have any plans to change that any time soon. I forgot that 6 months isn't considered "any time soon" in the cell phone world...

And they are not throttling "abusive users". 3GB in a month is not abusive. That is why they define it as the "Top 5%". If the average person on the unlimited plan used 50mb, then the guy using 75mb would be in the top 5%. Would he be "abusing" for using 75mb on a 2000mb plan, because he happened to be in the top 5%?

That is my problem with this. They make it a sliding scale, so that no matter who uses what, 5% of their users will always fall into that "abuse" column and they can then "justify" turning the screws on them.

 

[jerkwad]

Ive had it with Verizon....they are ripping us off big time....I have 2 smartphones on unlimited data plans....my monthly bill for them with 1400min, and unlimited txt,insurance on both smartphones and one dumbphone is 235.00 a month....60.00 of that is data charges...i use .75-1.8gb average monthly on my phone,and my better half works from home and is on wifi with her smartphone most of the time...she averages .3gb a month...I have hit as high as 2.75 once this summer when i went away,but my winter average is only .75gb...so basically im paying about 30.00 per GB monthly,and Im being HEAVILY throttled on my line (the one that averages .75-1.8gb)...and occasionally throttled on the other line as well...I cannot even use Pandora anymore,sending simple emails takes forever.Using the mobile browser on my DX2 is hit or miss....forget watching a video...when i first got my plan I had the OG droid 1,and everything worked as it should,it was so much faster than my dual core rooted rommed Dx2,even though on Wifi,the DX2 flies,basically im fed up,,,and now they want me to pay even more to have what I should have now? They are not adding lines to the towers as they add smartphones,so there pocketing more money and pulling back our data speeds....I hope one day the Sprint network improves enough here so i can jump ship...Im beyond aggravated...

Take a deep breath...now exhaaaaalle, relax a bit here.

You JUST said you are usually under the 2GB "cap" - you aren't being thottled...People fly off the handle w/o knowing what is going on. I have a 2GB data plan on my DroidX and i get sh*t 3G speeds. My wife has unlimited (grandfathered in) on her DINC2 and she is also getting sh*t 3G speeds. It's the network, it's not your specific account getting throttled! I know Verizon had issues last month with their network and it seems it is still not stellar at this point. I'm averaging about 600Kb-1Mbit whenever I test out my speed using the speedtest.org app. I wouldn't call that amazing, but i've yet to be unable to do NORMAL cell phone stuff (calls, txts, web, email, games, etc). If you are getting poor speeds, you might want to look elsewhere than blame Verizon's throttling of your data - you simply do NOT fall under the category in which they are throttling users per your OWN admission in the post above. Spreading false information and damning Verizon, in this case, seems a bit over the top.

 

[jerkwad]

The problem is that the contract just says that they can change it at their discretion. It isn't like they said, "We know that we sold you Unlimited, but we are going to limit that in 6 months and charge you more for it".... They just say that they can change things, like every contract does. If they said that they were going to take away Unlimited, throttle you and charge you more, nobody would ever sign it, would they?

you hit the nail on the head: every contract has that stipulation in it that they can revise them at any time - it's a fact of life with contracts. They let you OUT, free of charge, if you dont like it - I dont see how that is so unfair as to start calling them evil. It sucks when things deviate from the norm/change, i get that. But they are required by law to let you out of a contract should you not like their terms and you are free to go somewhere else that you can find better terms and maybe a contract that doesn't have that clause in it (/sarcasm).

You and I both know you would have still signed the contract IF you also knew that T-mobile was going to do the same thing and ALSO if ATT was going to follow suit and (as many have said) sprint wasn't an option. You STILL would have been cornered into it and have had to accept their 6-month-in-the-future term. I wouldn't go back to Sprint or ATT for any amount of money so I know I would have had to deal with anything in the contract. It isn't like they are expecting us to form the new human-centipad lol THAT might have made me go back to Sprint (maybe).

And they are not throttling "abusive users". 3GB in a month is not abusive. That is why they define it as the "Top 5%". If the average person on the unlimited plan used 50mb, then the guy using 75mb would be in the top 5%. Would he be "abusing" for using 75mb on a 2000mb plan, because he happened to be in the top 5%?

That is my problem with this. They make it a sliding scale, so that no matter who uses what, 5% of their users will always fall into that "abuse" column and they can then "justify" turning the screws on them.

Have they actually stated what they consider abusive? I haven't seen that information anywhere. I used the term "abusive" as they see it, not that I truly feel 2/3GB is abusive. That being said if the rest of the world uses 1MB a month and you use 10MB a month you're doing it wrong. You can use all the numbers you want to make it sound unfair but if the average user (millions of users) have determined what is average and you are (well) outside that curve i don't care how much or how little your data is, you are clearly taking an unfair share. Is it really abusive?! maybe not, probably not. I don't really consider 3GB abusive - i DO consider 20+GB/month fairly abusive or at least disruptive to the others, mind you that may ALSO be on an unlimited account suffering because THEY are part of the average data usage while a few are well outside that norm.

If the average person uses 104 BYTES of data a month, does that mean that someone using 4MB of data a month (40x as much!) is abusive? How about if the average user uses 1GB of data month - NOW that 40x usage (40GB/month) seems a bit more outrageous. THEY don't make it a sliding scale, WE make it a sliding scale. THEY have chosen 5% - that's a fixed percentage. THEY could easily have said the top 15% or worse - but they didn't - they could have also said the top 1% but they didn't - they found a middle ground. WE determine what 5% means, millions of us. Just for the record I wish they had done the top 3% - to give us all a little bit more wiggle room - but it is what it is. Just wait for the next contract change and then don't accept their terms and go to another provider - if they are as shady as many are making them out to be, it's only a matter of time before that happens right?

PS - stop making me defend them lol

 

[Raw Dodge]

If it is the network why can my buddy standing next to me get 1400 and im getting 600 download speeds? Same phone same network....its not Verizon..and my fiances phone isn't throttled nearly as much ....mines throttled so bad sometimes the GPS loses data when it's got 3g icon lit up....

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

 

[jerkwad]

If it is the network why can my buddy standing next to me get 1400 and im getting 600 download speeds? Same phone same network....its not Verizon..and my fiances phone isn't throttled nearly as much ....mines throttled so bad sometimes the GPS loses data when it's got 3g icon lit up....

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

what's your current data usage, according to Verizon's website? Have you considered resetting the device to determine if there is something messed up? Are you rooted? If you aren't over 2GB then you aren't being throttled, according to Verizon's list of triggers that determine if someone is throttled or not. I'm not calling you a liar, but something seems to be wrong and I can't imagine Verizon cutting you off when you aren't in the "top 5%"....UNLESS you went over your 2GB last month - they said they may throttle users even for the next billing cycle - I guess that is an option too?

on another note, I also see speeds of 600 sometimes (more often than I like!!!) on my DX. It's rooted, ROM'ed all that jazz, so we may be comparing apples to oranges, but regardless I ahve the same performance as you do. I will give mine a try when i get outta the building and report back - i just think it's something else besides Verizon doing this, but you know what they say about opinions and assholes lol

 

[SquireSCA]

you hit the nail on the head: every contract has that stipulation in it that they can revise them at any time - it's a fact of life with contracts. They let you OUT, free of charge, if you dont like it - I dont see how that is so unfair as to start calling them evil. It sucks when things deviate from the norm/change, i get that. But they are required by law to let you out of a contract should you not like their terms and you are free to go somewhere else that you can find better terms and maybe a contract that doesn't have that clause in it (/sarcasm).

You and I both know you would have still signed the contract IF you also knew that T-mobile was going to do the same thing and ALSO if ATT was going to follow suit and (as many have said) sprint wasn't an option. You STILL would have been cornered into it and have had to accept their 6-month-in-the-future term. I wouldn't go back to Sprint or ATT for any amount of money so I know I would have had to deal with anything in the contract. It isn't like they are expecting us to form the new human-centipad lol THAT might have made me go back to Sprint (maybe).



Have they actually stated what they consider abusive? I haven't seen that information anywhere. I used the term "abusive" as they see it, not that I truly feel 2/3GB is abusive. That being said if the rest of the world uses 1MB a month and you use 10MB a month you're doing it wrong. You can use all the numbers you want to make it sound unfair but if the average user (millions of users) have determined what is average and you are (well) outside that curve i don't care how much or how little your data is, you are clearly taking an unfair share. Is it really abusive?! maybe not, probably not. I don't really consider 3GB abusive - i DO consider 20+GB/month fairly abusive or at least disruptive to the others, mind you that may ALSO be on an unlimited account suffering because THEY are part of the average data usage while a few are well outside that norm.

If the average person uses 104 BYTES of data a month, does that mean that someone using 4MB of data a month (40x as much!) is abusive? How about if the average user uses 1GB of data month - NOW that 40x usage (40GB/month) seems a bit more outrageous. THEY don't make it a sliding scale, WE make it a sliding scale. THEY have chosen 5% - that's a fixed percentage. THEY could easily have said the top 15% or worse - but they didn't - they could have also said the top 1% but they didn't - they found a middle ground. WE determine what 5% means, millions of us. Just for the record I wish they had done the top 3% - to give us all a little bit more wiggle room - but it is what it is. Just wait for the next contract change and then don't accept their terms and go to another provider - if they are as shady as many are making them out to be, it's only a matter of time before that happens right?

PS - stop making me defend them lol

I still believe that they go after the top 5%, because no matter what the usage trends are, no matter how much or how little the average person uses, there will always be a 5% that they can go after and try to get more money out of. They created a sliding scale. If they just said that anything over 5GB would get dinged, most of us would make sure to never go over that. But if they say "if you are in the top 5% of bandwidth users", how do you counter that? How do you measure or track it?

You can't. And they know that, and no matter what anyone does, they are guaranteed to always have a top 5% group. Of course, if you opt out of your grandfathered plan and pay for a higher priced tiered plan, then you are ok. Which what ALL of this is about. Getting you to pay more tomorrow, for less than you had yesterday.

 

[SquireSCA]

An interesting read I found in another forum. It mainly discusses AT&T, but it is very relevant to carriers in general and this specific topic at hand.

Red Tape - Why fine print might ground your high-flying 4G cellphone service

 

[jerkwad]

I still believe that they go after the top 5%, because no matter what the usage trends are, no matter how much or how little the average person uses, there will always be a 5% that they can go after and try to get more money out of. They created a sliding scale. If they just said that anything over 5GB would get dinged, most of us would make sure to never go over that. But if they say "if you are in the top 5% of bandwidth users", how do you counter that? How do you measure or track it?

You can't. And they know that, and no matter what anyone does, they are guaranteed to always have a top 5% group. Of course, if you opt out of your grandfathered plan and pay for a higher priced tiered plan, then you are ok. Which what ALL of this is about. Getting you to pay more tomorrow, for less than you had yesterday.

I totally get that - not going to argue with you there BUT, as I've asked numerous times, where does Verizon stipulate that >2GB = Top 5%? What you and others choose to believe does not make it fact - which is why I was hoping someone could shed more light on what Verizon is actually doing instead of just guessing, hating, blaming, and assuming things. I still HIGHLY doubt that RawDodge is being throttled. I just did speed tests last night. I was getting no MORE than 300Kbps up/down. ONCE i got about 1Mbit down/300Kbps up. That was sitting close to a cell tower with FULL bars. All other tests were 3 bars with the 300Kbps speeds. Not awesome at all, but hardly due to throttling!

 

[Trusstopher]

I totally get that - not going to argue with you there BUT, as I've asked numerous times, where does Verizon stipulate that >2GB = Top 5%? What you and others choose to believe does not make it fact - which is why I was hoping someone could shed more light on what Verizon is actually doing instead of just guessing, hating, blaming, and assuming things. I still HIGHLY doubt that RawDodge is being throttled. I just did speed tests last night. I was getting no MORE than 300Kbps up/down. ONCE i got about 1Mbit down/300Kbps up. That was sitting close to a cell tower with FULL bars. All other tests were 3 bars with the 300Kbps speeds. Not awesome at all, but hardly due to throttling!

As per this web page:Network Optimization

How will I know if I’m in the top 5% of data users?
As of August 2011, the top 5% of data users were using 2 GB or more of data each month.

How do I know if I will be impacted by Network Optimization?
A good rule of thumb as of September 2011 is this: If you’re on an unlimited data plan, have a 3G device and are using more than 2 GB of data in a month, you’re in the top 5% of data users and will be impacted by Network Optimization when you’re connected to congested 3G cell sites.

Starting at the end of August 2011, if you are on an unlimited plan, are a high data user and had a contract prior to February 3, 2011, we’ll notify you through bill messages and on your My Verizon account if you may be affected.

 

[jerkwad]

An interesting read I found in another forum. It mainly discusses AT&T, but it is very relevant to carriers in general and this specific topic at hand.

Red Tape - Why fine print might ground your high-flying 4G cellphone service

Yeah, that is a pretty good example of TOS being so restricting that they can impose their will on you at any time! - another reason not to go to ATT, as Verizon's TOS seems fair in comparison ;-) But what's to stop Verizon from doing the same thing for future contracts? I guess nothing...But in all honesty if this is the way of the future for smart phones, i'd probably end up going back to a standard cell phone and telling them to go pound sand. The general population isn't going to buy into expensive plans and expensive phones, THE VERY MINUTE, they can't download angry birds and do facebook sh*t, either...THE telcos know this and will/should find a balance that suits the millions of users (ie they won't inhibit service/protocols/etc)

 

[jerkwad]

As per this web page:Network Optimization

Thanks man! That's all I was asking for, but it seemed others were just stating opinion as no one else had posted that link. At least, as I've said in the past, they also throw in the stipulation of: "will be impacted by Network Optimization when you’re connected to congested 3G cell sites." Certainly not ideal for those paying for unlimited but it isn't 100% of the day that users are being "optimized" (and it still doesn't sound like that is the other guy's issue, but that's neither here nor there).

:i-m_so_happy:

 

[LegalAmerican]

Freaking A. I think Jerkwad is a Verizon employee or he is VERY passionate about always being right. Kudos to Jerkwad for dedicating this much time to this thread and absolutely throttling the rest of us in length of post.