Apparent GPS Failure

[spalding12]

great post, Narsil
i'm with you
i'm a physician who is currently paying VERIZON for 25 phones....
not to mention my IP-based (T1) phone system
not to mention.... more money for the 5 blackberries in my office... and their GPS-ADD-ON pricing

so.....
just give me the GPS i was supposed to get with my DROID
is that so much to ask?

 

[JerrytheGreat]

No red Herring there, Narsil (assuming the agps theory is correct). Simply put, in certain geographic locations, the low-power gps chips used in cell phones need an extra push. Southwest Florida is one of those areas.

The herring is involved in the question as to why it hasn't been resolved...

 

[JerrytheGreat]

Spalding12: 25 phones, eh?
What kind of physician has 25 phones and 5 BlackBerries?

 

[Narsil]

No red Herring there, Narsil (assuming the agps theory is correct). Simply put, in certain geographic locations, the low-power gps chips used in cell phones need an extra push. Southwest Florida is one of those areas.

The herring is involved in the question as to why it hasn't been resolved...

You misunderstood me, I believe. The AGPS issue makes perfect sense to me! It is the former Alltel customer issue that makes no sense. That would only make sense if I was still using a phone purchased from Alltel with their built-in limitations. The Droid should have none of those issues.

 

[JerrytheGreat]

OK.
The way I figure it, their aGPS server was set up to block the phones of other carriers from using it for their GPS features. This included Alltel. Now that Verizon owns Alltel, they can't figure out how to open it up.

 

[jaymeangreen]

oh....
and, by the way:
here's what some UPPER LEVEL VERIZON REP TOLD ME... earlier today:

Former ALLTEL Customers will NEVER get GPS until they change to a VERIZON phone #

Not true. For those of. You who have been following this thread and have been reading my posts since I left ft Myers my GPS has worked without a problem. I am in west TN where I barely get cell phone service but my GPS. Works fine. So it is possible for former alltel customers to have GPS. It definitely has to do with my location in some way

 

[spalding12]

Spalding12: 25 phones, eh?
What kind of physician has 25 phones and 5 BlackBerries?

hey, jerry
i'm a pediatrician
3 partners
2 offices
29 other staff
i've been there for 20 years... but, the practice was established in 1963
i love what i do..... i'm very lucky

 

[spalding12]

No red Herring there, Narsil (assuming the agps theory is correct). Simply put, in certain geographic locations, the low-power gps chips used in cell phones need an extra push. Southwest Florida is one of those areas.

The herring is involved in the question as to why it hasn't been resolved...

why do you say that about southwest florida?
our proximity to those satellites in geosynchronous orbit is quite good, actually
it's the NORTHEAST where these "issues" might occur (but, they don't)

as i had mentioned earlier....
you can download "GPS STATUS" for your droid....
i was easily tracking (with a very good signal) 8 satellites
they just never locked
because there is some SOFTWARE SNAFU that isn't allowing the "HANDSHAKE" between my droid and the satellites
for whatever reason

 

[JerrytheGreat]

Lucky spalding12:
I have never researched any further than viewing others' and my own experiences. This is not my first gps phone, and I hade exactly the same issues until agps was properly set up. when I drove to Orlando, I could get a lock in 5-15 seconds. Never in Sarasota

 

[spalding12]

Lucky spalding12:
I have never researched any further than viewing others' and my own experiences. This is not my first gps phone, and I hade exactly the same issues until agps was properly set up. when I drove to Orlando, I could get a lock in 5-15 seconds. Never in Sarasota

that is weird
it must become some cell tower-related issue
i have 8 gps units i use regularly.....
2 in each car
2 on my motorcycle

2 on my boat
yep.... i'm a nut for gps
they work everywhere
all over the country
all over the world
JUST FINE IN SARASOTA
now we know there must be come cell phone-related snafu on the west coast of florida
if anyone will admit it

 

[flwalt]

Hey Guys.....
had the Droid for a week And have been following. This thread as long...
driving so ill be to the point...just thought I'd contribute my experience so far.

Former alltel user to a Verizon account. Same number.

Live in Tampa and drive the west coast.

Get GPS lock off and on for hours. At a time.
Locks indoors very easily.

GPS. Status shows grey. Satellite returns often.

That's about it...lol

 

[dvjones12]

No red Herring there, Narsil (assuming the agps theory is correct). Simply put, in certain geographic locations, the low-power gps chips used in cell phones need an extra push. Southwest Florida is one of those areas.

The herring is involved in the question as to why it hasn't been resolved...

why do you say that about southwest florida?
our proximity to those satellites in geosynchronous orbit is quite good, actually
it's the NORTHEAST where these "issues" might occur (but, they don't)

as i had mentioned earlier....
you can download "GPS STATUS" for your droid....
i was easily tracking (with a very good signal) 8 satellites
they just never locked
because there is some SOFTWARE SNAFU that isn't allowing the "HANDSHAKE" between my droid and the satellites
for whatever reason

Spalding, I think you nailed it. I also had the same issue. GPStest showed 9 satalites but not would lock.
Only after I took out the battery for an hour did it come back.

Another issue that I have noticed on my Droid is that periodically the ringtone volume will get reduced by half. Even though it is maxed out. I can go into settings and test it and it is still low. I then kill all of the applications using Task Killer Application. Now it all works again.

I am guessing that one of the services for the new OS is getting messed up or in a bad state. The joys of having a brand new system

 

[JerrytheGreat]

Why Dedicated GPS units dont have the same issues

To clarify some confusion over GPS issues:
Cell phones use much lower-powered GPS chips and antennas than the Magellan/Tom-Tom/Garmin flavor of GPS systems. My wife's Tom-Tom also never has an issue locking in Sarasota.

Specifically, the Droid uses a Texas Instruments NaviLink chip optimized specifically for 3g phones with low power consumption, reduced size, and light weight. The TI website even mentions this chip's support for aGPS.

While I agree the issue is network related, I do not believe it is a Big-Brother issue, but an aGPS connectivity issue. Verizon has no control over the dialog between a GPS chip and a satellite!!

PS I have no idea why low-powered GPS chips have issues in SW FL, but there is definitely a pattern.

And once again, as others have mentioned, there are other factors clouding the issue: Faulty GPS chips, the need for occasional chip resets, initial lock issues, etc.

 

[spalding12]

To clarify some confusion over GPS issues:
Cell phones use much lower-powered GPS chips and antennas than the Magellan/Tom-Tom/Garmin flavor of GPS systems. My wife's Tom-Tom also never has an issue locking in Sarasota.

Specifically, the Droid uses a Texas Instruments NaviLink chip optimized specifically for 3g phones with low power consumption, reduced size, and light weight. The TI website even mentions this chip's support for aGPS.

While I agree the issue is network related, I do not believe it is a Big-Brother issue, but an aGPS connectivity issue. Verizon has no control over the dialog between a GPS chip and a satellite!!

PS I have no idea why low-powered GPS chips have issues in SW FL, but there is definitely a pattern.

And once again, as others have mentioned, there are other factors clouding the issue: Faulty GPS chips, the need for occasional chip resets, initial lock issues, etc.

actually....
as it turns out...
the droid HAS to talk to the tower to authenticate it's ability to use the gps data
that's why GPS STATUS shows that my phone SEES every satellite available, but can NEVER MAKE THE HANDSHAKE to utilize their data
a little known.... an never-admitted fact

how i know?
because every single verizon-based gps phone in the tampa bay area works.....
and every single alltel-based one doesn't

 

[Erich_F]

actually....
as it turns out...
the droid HAS to talk to the tower to authenticate it's ability to use the gps data
that's why GPS STATUS shows that my phone SEES every satellite available, but can NEVER MAKE THE HANDSHAKE to utilize their data
a little known.... an never-admitted fact

how i know?
because every single verizon-based gps phone in the tampa bay area works.....
and every single alltel-based one doesn't

Interesting info coming out on this. Thanks to Jerry for identifying what chipset the Droid uses. That helps a lot.

Spalding, I am a long-time Verizon-only customer, and I have had this GPS failure twice in two different locations (Tampa and Gainesville), but I was also able to fix my second GPS failure with a complete wipe of the phone.

So, this means to me that there are many levels of failure with this GPS system. Let's all hope that Moto gets a fix included in the Dec OTA.

Erich