Are we Dead Yet (Root Users)?

[Narsil]

I no longer feel the need to under/overclock and perform massive tweaks on any of my devices. Yet my option to root is still extremely important to me.

Two examples:
My Shield Tablet is rooted. NVidia just recalled my device because several Shield Tablets had overheated when non-stock quick chargers were used and had bloated batteries and a couple fires occurred. They sent me a replacement Shield Tablet. NVidia does not want my old tablet back but they will make it easy for me to dispose of it. They are sending OTA's to the old tablets to brick them so they will not be a fire hazard. Because I have root, I can delete their OTA program and prevent them from bricking it. BY DOING SO I ABSORB ALL LIABILITY SHOULD MY OLD TABLET HAVE BATTERY PROBLEMS and I'm just fine with that. I now have a primary rockin' tablet and a backup rockin' tablet.

My Verizon Note 4 is not rooted because Verizon forced Sammy to lock the bootloader and use write protection on it. Curse your flaming eyes Verizon and may you be eaten by a Sarlacc and be slowly digested over the course of a thousand years. There is a problem with the Amazon App Store app and I cannot fix it because Verizon made it a system app. No root, no uninstall. Several of my Amazon App Store apps will not run properly because the app store isn't communicating properly with Amazon. I'm convinced a simple uninstall and reinstall would fix the corruption but that option has been denied me. Actually, they do work properly now but only because they are listed under the Amazon Underground app now and that one is working properly.

Root is useful (and necessary) for FAR more things than overclocking and kernel tweaking which even most root users no longer do.

Besides, when I pay for a device myself, I should not have to fight to have admin rights on that machine.

 

[Jonny Kansas]

Overclocking was simply the first thing that came to mind. The examples you've listed, though completely justified are still out of the scope of what the AVERAGE user will do with their phone. Don't forget that people like us here on these forums are NOT the majority of smartphone owners. We're the exception to the rule. That was my only point. The average Joe who owns a smartphone isn't going to do lots of things that we "power users" do on a regular basis without even thinking about it.

While PC owners have the access to the system files that comes with admin access, your average user isn't messing around in the registry or anywhere else that it's recommended that someone with more advanced knowledge goes.

I get what you're saying and agree that you should have the option, but the majority of people who own a PC are worried about their facebook, their email, online shopping, and maybe some work stuff. They're not digging in where people like us live, so that root access is nothing that they'll ever miss.

Hope that clarifies my earlier statement. Not trying to incite an argument, just offer perspective. It's easy to forget that not everyone who owns these devices likes to tinker under the hood the way that the majority of our membership does.

 

[tech_head]

If you don't have root; you don't own your phone.

 

[pc747]

Overclocking was simply the first thing that came to mind. The examples you've listed, though completely justified are still out of the scope of what the AVERAGE user will do with their phone. Don't forget that people like us here on these forums are NOT the majority of smartphone owners. We're the exception to the rule. That was my only point. The average Joe who owns a smartphone isn't going to do lots of things that we "power users" do on a regular basis without even thinking about it.

While PC owners have the access to the system files that comes with admin access, your average user isn't messing around in the registry or anywhere else that it's recommended that someone with more advanced knowledge goes.

I get what you're saying and agree that you should have the option, but the majority of people who own a PC are worried about their facebook, their email, online shopping, and maybe some work stuff. They're not digging in where people like us live, so that root access is nothing that they'll ever miss.

Hope that clarifies my earlier statement. Not trying to incite an argument, just offer perspective. It's easy to forget that not everyone who owns these devices likes to tinker under the hood the way that the majority of our membership does.

You make a great point and to add to that (and my point of this thread) is we are starting to see more of the people on this forum (the exceptional hardcore users) settle for stock. Not because they don't know how to root but because they are satisfied with stock. These are some of the same people before who were signing petitions and on the front line for getting unlocked bootloaders and preserving root.

Yes we understand that there will always be people who will root and there will always be a place for those who root. I would argue that Android would not be where it was if it was not for the excitement of the rooting community when Android years ago was buggy, ugly, and slow. But this is a fact that I researched in that every year more and more people are giving up root. I would love to post a poll, and probably will later, to see how many of the people who rooted the past are still rooted and then check next year and do a comparison. I know we have members like @bkdodger who you are going to have to pry root from his cold dead hands and literally will be the last one out the su door (the man cutting off the lights). And I am one who will continue to push for the ability to buy a phone that can be rooted. I am looking to continue to put take the pulse of the Android community.

 

[Jonny Kansas]

I, for one, was heavy into the rooting, romming, and theming there for a while. That died down a bit when I retired my Moto Droid. Last phone I rooted was the Bionic, I think, and that was just to get the latest update before it came OTA.

Lest we forget that guys like @pc747 and myself started the rescue squad to help people when they were messing with root and got stuck. I created more than one guide on how to get out of a soft brick situation by getting myself out of that mess, then doing it again just so I could make sure I had a step-by-step for others that found themselves wondering what the heck they'd done and how they could get back to a working phone.

I can't say that I'll NEVER root again, but as the points covered here illustrate, there's nothing that makes me HAVE to have it. I couldn't care less about ads. I ignore them in the browser or just don't read the content they're surrounding. If an app has ads that get in the way of me using it, I either uninstall it or, if I really like the app and want to support the dev anyway, I'll go premium to have them removed.

Screenshots were a big thing I rooted for in the past. Don't need to now.

Theming, though I'd love to change the look of my Note 4, I don't have the time to put into it that I once did. That's really probably my biggest issue right now is the time that I spent doing those things back in the OG Droid days. I just don't have that kinda time to devote to it anymore.

I wouldn't say I've "settled" though. Are there some things I might like to tweak and change that I can't? Sure, but I know that going in when I get a new device.

While I'd love to play like I used to, I'm on-call at work, so I can't afford to have my phone down for the time it takes to flash new roms/etc and then risk have something not work so that I can't be reached when I'm needed.

While I still have my Nexus 7, I just don't feel like it'd be as fun to root and rom that thing as it was to on my OG Droid, especially since it's not a device I use every day. I did push lollipop to it via ADB and it took me back.

Not to mention the bits and pieces of working with Linux that I learned while tinkering with my Droid that translated well when I took courses on Linux/Apache.

 

[RyanPm40]

I rooted mainly to disable IPv6 because my phone hates my comcast modem and because I like making my nav buttons the same color as the status bar. I don't tend to do a lot to my phone when I root, but I like having more options, and there are always some small, subtle things I like to toy with. Heck, my 3rd party power toggle widget needs root access to toggle the GPS.

 

[Ollie]

I root for two reasons that have yet to be addressed by Android (regardless of OEM).

1. For a full system image.
2. For true app backups.

Oddly enough my iPhone is capable of restoring my phone to the exact state it was in when I made a backup. From the wallpaper to the app data.

Google has mentioned that they will be bringing app backups, but I haven't read much about how it will work and how much it truly backs up.

 

[pc747]

I don't have the time to put into it that I once did.

I think that may be at the top as to why I have fallen off. Before it almost felt like a must just to get your device to perform beyond what android was capable of doing. But now that android is where it is at now I agree that I just do not have the time to keep up with the latest rom. I use to have to flash something new on my phone every other day. But now I just hate having to go through the headache of having to set up my phone. It is why I love what Google did with Lollipop and Marshmallow. I set up my nexus 5 the way I want and just nfc restore and everything from apps, widgets, and home screen is set up and ready to go on my Nexus 6.

I loved messing with roms and always tell myself that I would try one, which I do from time to time. But I just do not feel like having to keep up to date with the latest fixes. Now I realize there are many roms (which I recommend) that are stable with minor tweaks to improve performance (ie CleanRom). As much as I loved that Rom I have become content with stock Google. Because for what i use my phone for now I'm good. I am satisfied with my once a quarter update from Google.

Now if you want tweaks, more frequent updates, or seeing how to max out that sports car (and you have time) then definitely support you favorite developer.

 

[pc747]

I root for two reasons that have yet to be addressed by Android (regardless of OEM).

1. For a full system image.
2. For true app backups.

Oddly enough my iPhone is capable of restoring my phone to the exact state it was in when I made a backup. From the wallpaper to the app data.

Google has mentioned that they will be bringing app backups, but I haven't read much about how it will work and how much it truly backs up.

1) You do not need to root for that just need a custom recovery (I am speaking from having a Nexus as it may be different for Samsung devices being they lock their bootloaders)

2) That you are correct in Google (and some app devs) still have some apps that are not backed up to servers (ie games). So if a person is trying to keep their progress saved on a game they may be out of luck w/o tibu. For myself there are no games that I really keep up with my progress on. But good point made Ollie.

 

[dezymond]

I root for root apps:

1. AdAway (must have)
2. Greenify
3. Titanium Backup (mainly to freeze bloatware, but some for backups)

I'll stick with stock ROM, with the power of these devices there's really no need for overclocking or any other real performance mods, unlike the devices of old.

I'd say the absolute #1 reason I root is to get rid of ads. I had a fully stock Nexus 7 running for a few days before I decided to root it just to get AdAway. I can't believe the amount of ads each app has, very annoying.

 

[bkdodger]

@dezymond most definitely can't do ads... I really don't know how peeps deal with them.. I just can't make believe they are not there.. Haha... And the alternative doesn't rid of them the same..
Good point on using apps like Greenify that limit what apps are doing in background..
Titanium backup is a must.. Google Apps solution as mentioned in a few posts still doesn't save the data needed..
Making a system nandroid to restore back to previous running version is big..
Yeah most regular folk don't care but we ain't regular up in here.. Lol

NexusSix

 

[pc747]

Even though this thread is primarily meant to discuss people who have either moved on from root or is still rooted, I want to make sure those reading along and are wanting to add some of these features to your phone we direct you there. @DroidModderX has done a few stories already about Xposed (for Lollipop) so I will link you to his thread. But for the app AdAway that both @bkdodger and @dezymond talked about, you can find that apk here (AdAway-release_Build-Sep.01.2015.apk | AdAway-release_Build-Sep.01.2015.apk | by mrRobinson for Nexus 9) . Because this app has both been removed from the Playstore by Google (as it cuts into Google's advertising business) and it requires you give it root permissions, make sure you read up on the app and understand what it does.

 

[pc747]

Xposed is official for Lollipop for those looking to try it as well.

 

[MissionImprobable]

Never dead, though with my current device I don't even bother because it's not worth the hassle. The ability to root will still continue to influence my future purchases, and I will never get another device from a manufacturer that works to create headaches when it comes to rooting. I'm still on Verizon, and with the amount of needless bloat they push it's not even a question of whether or not rooting should at least be an option.

What's sad is that you have handsets made by companies like Samsung, utilizing their 'sdcard0' allocation that plays very, very poorly with tons of bloat, RAM-heavy TouchWiz, and constant calls to RAM use for reading messages, etc. I've never run into so many memory errors in my life, and it's something that root can get around. Unfortunately Samsung is one of those companies that continues to be double-minded in its freedom of access stance, and a manufacturer that I have no plans to ever buy from again as things stand.

Is root necessary at all times? No, but saying that it's a dead and useless feature would be the equivalent of us accepting PCs that don't have admin capabilities. Would most of us really throw hundreds if not thousands at a device only to have no control over how they operate? It's not a very good prospect that so many phone users do just that everyday, signing multi-year contracts for hardware that isn't even theirs to use as they like, but that's not something I will ever support.

 

[MissionImprobable]

Addendum:
Let me say, that I haven't wiped a program yet that came with my laptop or desktop, because both run smoothly as is and I have to real desire to tweak them as such. That said, if there were software causing a major problem or simply interfering with functionality that I needed, I could uninstall it, replace it if necessary, and be done. Examples have been mentioned in this thread of exactly what the removal of that kind of user control can cause problems on handhelds, and I won't ever support disallowing user control over what is done with phones.

The only exception that I see as a place to argue from is when customers use the contract systems in which they are essentially 'renting' their devices from the service provider and return it every year or two years, having never actually owned it. If, however, they choose to buy it at the end of that term, it should be theirs in whole, to do with as they see fit. There is very, very little to be argued in saying that heavily locked down hardware benefits anyone but the phone manufacturers and cell providers; it is not done the sake of good will towards consumers.