Let's Talk (why one clicks are not helping)

[SwaggerJacker]

I'm must admit, when put in a non accusatory way, it does sound like fun. I like tinkering.

Duke

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

 

[mkjellgren]

I definitely agree with the op to a point. Personally, I wouldn't say that ALL use of one-clicks are not helping, I would say that UNINFORMED use of one-clicks is not helping. For someone like myself and many others here who have always done things the "long" way with adb, one-click root/unroot solutions are very convenient. If you ever run into a situation where you lost root and need to re-root or you have to unroot, one-clicks are really slick. Apps and programs like this are good for the development community. Any development is good development. The problem in my opinion is when someone becomes I interested in rooting, they tend to gravitate towards the easiest, most idiot proof means to their ends and they dive in head first without knowing what they are getting themselves into. There are countless posts in every section (involving root) of this forum with posts such as "just rooted with [insert one-click here] now what?!?!?!" My point is not to be a snob or some geek elite, in fact I am quite the opposite. I'm not a developer, I don't know java or anything like that. Android is simply a hobby of mine, I do the best that I can with the knowledge that I have and am always interested in learning more. I do however feel that it is in the best interest of not only the end user, but the developers, trouble shooters, and the Android community as a whole that we all take the time to try to understand what we are doing and why. It's not just one-clicks either. ROM flashing apps (i.e. ROM manager) and root specific file explorers are tremendous tools in the right hands, but with great power comes great responsibility. The best thing we as a community can do is strive to become as knowledgeable as possible and encourage others to the same.

*end rant...*

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[FreeTrader]

" Rooted " Via one click & ....

Hey There I rooted Via one of the one click methods Because i Have Win 7 & couldn't figure out how To Run ADB / sdk on my pc tried everything i could think of short of Trying to run Xp on a 7 machine ? LoL

Not sure how to do that either ? Some sort of VM is needed i do know that much Couldn't figure out how to do
it & didn't wanna Pay for the
Full Ver of VM ??? $$$$ LoL

Any way Got my Motorola i1 ( Boost Mobile ) Rooted so i Could

"Mod " / Rename some Files Via ( Rootexplorer ) Great Prog

Now an still looking for a Foolproof way to Backup My phone

" Stock " Backup & then maybe I'll DL & Play W some New rom's

But not before i Back it up ,,,, Could Somebody Please Help

Tried looking for SpRecovery & or Clockwork Etc .

But am SCARED TO Flash anything to my Phone Without knowing what it will do & if i can save a stock Backup First ???? Etc

Again Please Help !!!! Thanx .... Ftr

 

[Natey2]

Is this a good analogy?

One-click root is like an automatic transmission.
Adb is like stick-shift.

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

 

[Natey2]

Why do I need to root my phone to do some basic things, like making a complete backup?

Poor OS architecture on Google's part. Hiding necessary APIs under the cover of root privilege...

Under Windows Mobile 6, I could do image backups using Sprite.
No phone-hacking necessary.
With Android, I need to root first then use Titanium Backup?

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[DF Smod]

Let's remember to keep it respectful while posting...

 

[hookbill]

Why do I need to root my phone to do some basic things, like making a complete backup?

Poor OS architecture on Google's part. Hiding necessary APIs under the cover of root privilege...

Under Windows Mobile 6, I could do image backups using Sprite.
No phone-hacking necessary.
With Android, I need to root first then use Titanium Backup?

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

Totally off topic. Has absolutely nothing to do with the Thread.

 

[pc747]

I definitely agree with the op to a point. Personally, I wouldn't say that ALL use of one-clicks are not helping, I would say that UNINFORMED use of one-clicks is not helping. For someone like myself and many others here who have always done things the "long" way with adb, one-click root/unroot solutions are very convenient. If you ever run into a situation where you lost root and need to re-root or you have to unroot, one-clicks are really slick. Apps and programs like this are good for the development community. Any development is good development. The problem in my opinion is when someone becomes I interested in rooting, they tend to gravitate towards the easiest, most idiot proof means to their ends and they dive in head first without knowing what they are getting themselves into. There are countless posts in every section (involving root) of this forum with posts such as "just rooted with [insert one-click here] now what?!?!?!" My point is not to be a snob or some geek elite, in fact I am quite the opposite. I'm not a developer, I don't know java or anything like that. Android is simply a hobby of mine, I do the best that I can with the knowledge that I have and am always interested in learning more. I do however feel that it is in the best interest of not only the end user, but the developers, trouble shooters, and the Android community as a whole that we all take the time to try to understand what we are doing and why. It's not just one-clicks either. ROM flashing apps (i.e. ROM manager) and root specific file explorers are tremendous tools in the right hands, but with great power comes great responsibility. The best thing we as a community can do is strive to become as knowledgeable as possible and encourage others to the same.

*end rant...*

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

I am not saying get rid of one clicks because I agree they are useful and serves a purpose. Just like you said, if you had to go back to stock for some reason it is a quick method to root. I used z4 and super once lick a lot when I had to either recieve an ota or I had to return my phone for hardware issues. So I am not saying get rid of them and I am not telling people not to use them. My op was not meant to bang people on the head but to teach. Basically if the shoe fits wear it, if you know how to use adb and you understand the process then continue on. If you do not understand adb and you would like to so you can feel comfortable about what is going on then as a community we need to continue to educate. This community is gonna go where we take it. For the elitist people who have the feeling that "if you cant use adb then dont root", we are beyond that now because people are using one clicks. So instead of being acommunity against one another lets get it together. This is not meant to rid one-clicks but to educate people how to do it through adb and allow people to know what is going on.

 

[Immolate]

I took it in that spirit pc747, and I think it's a worthy endeavor. I just wanted you to know that there are ADB n00bs out here like me who would appreciate any educational assistance you'd care to give.

 

[SwaggerJacker]

I agree it can be very helpful. Just don't tell me me I'm the downfall of the community. If that's the case we shouldn't use rom manager either.

Duke

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[wooddale]

I agree with you guys Ive rooted 5 phones so far. The first two a DX and D2 with whatever was available at the time 2nd two Z4 and the TB easy root. I would love to learn the hard way but its scarry when you dont know what the hell your doing. You guys are of so much help when you get stuck I wish I could do the same for other people. Like somebody said stock is almost as good as root but the rush you get from rooting and flashing roms and kernels in my mind is worth the risk. Besides that Im retired and got the time to do it. Thanks

 

[drew]

I agree it can be very helpful. Just don't tell me me I'm the downfall of the community. If that's the case we shouldn't use rom manager either.

Duke

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

Agreed. The people using the one-clicks are merely using software released by developers. I recall seeing a lot of negative feedback re: ROM manager from the "purist" camp. I'm sure some people have had problems with it (not arguing that point). I've had good luck with it. My point is that no one would dare call out the developers for creating and releasing all these tools, and they provide value to the community. Why call out the people that try to use them? Surely, the talented developer(s) who created Z4Root isn't a jerk for doing so, so why are all the people who use it get treated like jerks.

The platform is still in relative infancy. Developers are pushing the envelope to deliver better tools (one click root exploit, ROM Manager, kernel manager, etc) to the masses. This means EVERYONE. Not just the people who want to learn every technical detail about their phone. Because the platform isn't very mature, your mileage may vary with ANY software released.

What I don't get is the people who complain that "person X used a one-click root and I had to help them recover their phone." You made a choice to help them. If you feel it was a waste of your time, perhaps you will make a different choice in the future. I'm sure the person you helped wasn't nearly as savvy as you, and was very appreciative that you were able to save their device and help.

With that said, I do agree with the OP that knowledge is power and knowing is half the battle and all that fun stuff. I think you can find a lot of instances on various message boards where the helpers come across as condescending and that can scare people / intimidate people as well. It is an interesting social division. The geeks will share but only if you follow their word to the letter. Any deviation will cause you derision and humiliation. Like some kind of twisted D&D game in mom's basement. I have to go find my 12-sided die now.

 

[Immolate]

Well put Drew and agreed.

 

[pc747]

I agree it can be very helpful. Just don't tell me me I'm the downfall of the community. If that's the case we shouldn't use rom manager either.

Duke

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

Agreed. The people using the one-clicks are merely using software released by developers. I recall seeing a lot of negative feedback re: ROM manager from the "purist" camp. I'm sure some people have had problems with it (not arguing that point). I've had good luck with it. My point is that no one would dare call out the developers for creating and releasing all these tools, and they provide value to the community. Why call out the people that try to use them? Surely, the talented developer(s) who created Z4Root isn't a jerk for doing so, so why are all the people who use it get treated like jerks.

The platform is still in relative infancy. Developers are pushing the envelope to deliver better tools (one click root exploit, ROM Manager, kernel manager, etc) to the masses. This means EVERYONE. Not just the people who want to learn every technical detail about their phone. Because the platform isn't very mature, your mileage may vary with ANY software released.

What I don't get is the people who complain that "person X used a one-click root and I had to help them recover their phone." You made a choice to help them. If you feel it was a waste of your time, perhaps you will make a different choice in the future. I'm sure the person you helped wasn't nearly as savvy as you, and was very appreciative that you were able to save their device and help.

With that said, I do agree with the OP that knowledge is power and knowing is half the battle and all that fun stuff. I think you can find a lot of instances on various message boards where the helpers come across as condescending and that can scare people / intimidate people as well. It is an interesting social division. The geeks will share but only if you follow their word to the letter. Any deviation will cause you derision and humiliation. Like some kind of twisted D&D game in mom's basement. I have to go find my 12-sided die now.

When Rom Manager was initially released for the droid it was buggy and was not allowing people to get into recovery. This was causing a lot of panic even after the developer released a solution. Rom Manager has gotten much better.

@ SwaggerJacker no one is saying you or anyone who do not understand adb is the downfall of the community. You are coming in here with the wrong attitude. The point is to teach not to bash. I dont care if people use one clicks or not what I want to do is educate people so they know what is happening so they do not panic if the script in a ine click app fail. I used a one click to root my tbolt and it failed half way through, I knew adb so was able to pick up where it left off. Learning what is going on can help you in the long wrong. You are hacking your phone which voids your warranty, these devices retail from 400+. I would think you would want to know how to recover your device if something goes wrong. All the roms I have flashed over the past 2 years, I have had to recover my device 25% of the time, whether it be the rom, me leaving out a step, or getting stuck at the Boot logo.


@Immolate: I am currently working on some adb guides I hope to have it compeete or atleast ready to be posted by mid week.

To all reading this thread: We are not here to bash you. A lot of us are no different from you. We just want to educate people so they can feel good and have a basic understanding what is happening to your device. You pay good money for your device you owe it to yourself to understand what is happening.

 

[Immolate]

Good news pc747. I intend to be one of your first students.