Not to beat a dead horse, but you are not seeing the elephant in the room. Several posters have offered some good suggestions for you to better articulate your position. At present, your post comes off as a rant without much substance or reason. Personally, I would take a step back and review my post in light of the offered comments.
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My Droid Bionic Experience
- Thread starter Notafan
- Start date
Yep, I got it - you hate Motorola support. Not sure what your specific gripes are about the Bionic, though.
I was going to continue on and write a huge wall of text addressing each of your many statements, bit I think the point is better made if I just leave it at that (short and to the point).
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LaurelRaven
Member
Actually, based on what you originally said, you wrote it for people who were considering a bionic (specifically mentioned that)...that would imply "article of persuasion". The suggestions given were to help make your article more accessible, which is a must if you want people who might be considering it to actually read through. They were polite (well, the ones with advise were), and you responded rudely. Not winning any points there.
Also, as said specifically, you wrote this for anyone considering a bionic, not a motorola phone in general. I think it is fair to ask what issues you had with the phone rather than the company...unless your intent is more generally about the company, which your article suggests.
Some people were rude, but most were polite even as they disagreed with you. That is unusual on the internet. Cherish the moment rather than flaming us
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Also, as said specifically, you wrote this for anyone considering a bionic, not a motorola phone in general. I think it is fair to ask what issues you had with the phone rather than the company...unless your intent is more generally about the company, which your article suggests.
Some people were rude, but most were polite even as they disagreed with you. That is unusual on the internet. Cherish the moment rather than flaming us
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BroidDrionic
Member
Your OP on the moto forums only got +4 and -3... hardly the overwhelming endorsement you're attempting to portray.
Also, your rant had nothing to do with the bionic, only Motorola customer service. And when you take into consideration the fact that you are only indirectly a customer of Motorola's, their lack of service to you is reasonable.
Really though, what did you expect moto to do? Refund your money? Replace the phone? They can't very well do either, because again, you aren't exactly a customer of theirs.
Apple's arguably best-in-the-biz customer service seems to have tricked you into thinking that if you buy a phone from Verizon that was made by Motorola, you are somehow a customer of Motorola's. It's like when you buy a burger from McD's: you're a customer of McD's, not a customer of the farm where the cow was raised.
You can talk to the farm as much as you like about their disappointing bionic beef, but they can't do much more than say sorry.
Apple's farm, however, bends the rules a little and is willing to replace your patty if you are dissatisfied with it, even though you didn't actually buy it from them. Which is why I think you have become misinformed about Motorola's duties to you!
I switched from an iphone 3gs (my first smartphone) to the Droid bionic (my second smartphone). The bionic had awful system stability. The iphone had awful app stability.
I got the bionic release week and was incredibly frustrated with it until I installed the leaked updates a few weeks into ownership. Since then I've fallen in love.
My wife and I got our bionics for free (more accurately, we were paid $50 to "purchase" the two bionics) so I don't have any money invested in the device.
Switching from my iphone to the bionic was just as big of an upgrade as was going from my old land line to the iphone 3gs. The bionic, along with any of the other 4g dual-core android phones in existence, are so far beyond every other phone option, that I can't fathom any reasoning for anyone purchasing an iphone, blackberry, or anything else ever again. The bionic is literally the pinaccle of technology in my eyes. It contains every electronic interface with information ever invented.
It has replaced my laptop, GPS, camera, dvr, and the list goes on.
The only thing they can do from here is give it a slicker CPU (oh, and ACTUAL 1080p out on HDMI, not just this qhd junk).
In fact, I think that's my only real problem with the phone (since installing 5.5.893). No real 1080p on HDMI...
But anyway, sorry Motorola brushed you off, I guess.
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P.S. I'm sooo glad that Google bought Motorola mobility. I'm excited to see the devices that moto comes up with in the future under the direction of Google!
The sum of the content in the OP was about differences in customer service response between Motorola and Verizon.
Here's the problem:
The device is manufactured by Motorola for Verizon to sell to it's customers.
Motorola doesn't provide celluar network service
Verizon provides celluar network, tech support, customer service support for the customer.
Complaining to Motorola for drops in connectivity to Verizon's celluar network; when your contract is with Verizon for said celluar service not Motorola, would get you some strange ackward responses from anyone you contacted at Motorola.
1. Verizon's 4G LTE was launched in November 2010 for products they support to use their network
2. Motorola Bionic was launched in September 2011 for use on Verizon's network.
3. Verizon had numerous network connectivity issues in 2011. Threads related to Verizon's problems can be found on Verizon's own website as well as this site and other mobile tech related websites. All new technology has these unforeseen but "expected" events.
Something to consider:
You didn't sign a contract with Motorola for customer support or connectivity.
You did sign a contract with Verizon for service and support, and they are obligated under the terms of that contract to comply.
In a nutshell; what you did was go to a manufacturer to complain about their product, when your contractual agreement was with another company that is obligated to listen and act per the terms of said contract. You never gave any money to Motorola, you pay Verizon. I'm pretty sure the same holds true if you bought your devise from Amazon, Best Buy or any other establishment they still direct you to complain to Verizon. I could be wrong, but I thing I'm right.
Then you share your experience on several forums; but some on this forum actually read and could comprehend what you wrote, and picked it apart trying to understand your point.
At least some here tried to get through to you, even though the point you made is confusing. Why? Because Motorola does listen and does want customer feedback on their products, but you wanted action that isn't in their capability to give. You acknowledged their forum, their web content assistants and using their customer service for your needs. However; while Motorola did listen to your issues they could and would get in big trouble assisting you, when you are contractually obligated to go to Verizon for service. Verizon, not Motorola is obligated by contract to act. That's why the Motorola reps you conversed with told you they'd have to consult and gain consent from senior management to assist you.
If you spent more text on Motorola pushing product lines too fast; or how they released three versions of the Razr within months of each other, instead of bashing their customer service inaction when they'd be liable to Verizon for assisting you... you'd have received a better response.
Actually you paid this forum a nice complement; I guess we are different, at least we can read and comprehend.
Here's the problem:
The device is manufactured by Motorola for Verizon to sell to it's customers.
Motorola doesn't provide celluar network service
Verizon provides celluar network, tech support, customer service support for the customer.
Complaining to Motorola for drops in connectivity to Verizon's celluar network; when your contract is with Verizon for said celluar service not Motorola, would get you some strange ackward responses from anyone you contacted at Motorola.
1. Verizon's 4G LTE was launched in November 2010 for products they support to use their network
2. Motorola Bionic was launched in September 2011 for use on Verizon's network.
3. Verizon had numerous network connectivity issues in 2011. Threads related to Verizon's problems can be found on Verizon's own website as well as this site and other mobile tech related websites. All new technology has these unforeseen but "expected" events.
Something to consider:
You didn't sign a contract with Motorola for customer support or connectivity.
You did sign a contract with Verizon for service and support, and they are obligated under the terms of that contract to comply.
In a nutshell; what you did was go to a manufacturer to complain about their product, when your contractual agreement was with another company that is obligated to listen and act per the terms of said contract. You never gave any money to Motorola, you pay Verizon. I'm pretty sure the same holds true if you bought your devise from Amazon, Best Buy or any other establishment they still direct you to complain to Verizon. I could be wrong, but I thing I'm right.
Then you share your experience on several forums; but some on this forum actually read and could comprehend what you wrote, and picked it apart trying to understand your point.
At least some here tried to get through to you, even though the point you made is confusing. Why? Because Motorola does listen and does want customer feedback on their products, but you wanted action that isn't in their capability to give. You acknowledged their forum, their web content assistants and using their customer service for your needs. However; while Motorola did listen to your issues they could and would get in big trouble assisting you, when you are contractually obligated to go to Verizon for service. Verizon, not Motorola is obligated by contract to act. That's why the Motorola reps you conversed with told you they'd have to consult and gain consent from senior management to assist you.
If you spent more text on Motorola pushing product lines too fast; or how they released three versions of the Razr within months of each other, instead of bashing their customer service inaction when they'd be liable to Verizon for assisting you... you'd have received a better response.
Actually you paid this forum a nice complement; I guess we are different, at least we can read and comprehend.
sargentmajord
Silver Member
i have to say reading not just ur post but everyone's post in this thread was a very educational experience lol an i know its a bit weird but thank you guys for the very cool education session kudos
With all the work you did helping many, like me with the updated file to flash via rsdlite... anything I can do to help!
sargentmajord
Silver Member
hey np but the thread has been updated again we have a found a root method for the .902 so the thread has now become an all in one bionic fix thread and stickied lmao DMX show made a youtube video of it so far i have fixed 392 bionics my goal for now is 500With all the work you did helping many, like me with the updated file to flash via rsdlite... anything I can do to help!
There clearly is a disconnect in the way that we see this.
First off, it is disingenuous for you to change what I said and to then argue with what you made up. You said "hardly the overwhelming endorsement that you're attempting to portray". What I had said was " FWIW, I have found, from the places that I have posted this, that more people have agreed than disagreed, which surprised me." You even mentioned a statistic that supported what I said, just not what you made it out that I had said. My point is that the support here is pretty much null and that is not the case anywhere else. That you see this as a compliment would be a part of the disconnect in the way that we view this.
Second, you chose to view this more as a legal issue than a customer service issue. From a legal perspective you may be partly correct. However, recently there has been some significant change. Recent cases place more accountability on the Motorolas rather than the retailer than prior ones had. Nevertheless I do not know who would prevail in a Court of Law. I do acknowledge however that you do have some validity when speaking from a legal perspective. But then this isn't a Court of Law. Maybe that is the disconnect. You want to see this as a legal issue. I am just not too worried about that part of it.
I see this as a customer service issue. As an issue about how a company, that is a builder not a retailer, should treat their customers. We do agree that they build a product and then hand it off to someone else to sell it. To you, that means that they no longer have any responsibility, either legally or morally, to the end customer. As the complexity of products has changed, so has the Law, as I said before. It used to be that a company built an object that is static, required no on going modifications to operate properly, etc., etc.. Not so true in today's world. Look at your contract. Motorola maintains the responsibility to provide updates for the product to make it work and is responsible for failures of the internal parts. Now normally that is handled between Motorola and the retailer (in this case Verizon), but once again that is too much of a legal or structured perspective for me. In the end it is the consumer who matters because in the end it is the consumer who will decide if a company is successful or not.
You brought up what I think is an excellent example. Apple v. Motorola. Now, I am not talking about the phones, but the way the companies operate, which you also described quite well. As an aside, I also used to own an Iphone. It was a great phone, I liked it a lot. I just like the Android system better. From what I have heard and from the discussions that I have had with people, I think most people agree with that. I will use that point in a minute. Anyway, Apple does communicate directly to the consumer and does work to satisfy the consumer directly, even though their phones are also sold by the same retailer as Motorola's. It is a choice. Motorola made theirs and Apple made theirs. They are very different systems with very different philosophies, between the two companies.
It isn't the law or any contract or any other granular argument that is going to determine who is successful and who is not successful. It is the customer. Point in argument: Lets look at the companies from a perspective of financial health. If you had bought Motorola stock at the start of 2010, you would have paid about $20 a share. Today its value would be about $39 a share. At the same time, they lost money this last year and were rated pretty summarily as a sell until the Google deal (which should go through next week!) which has allowed people to hope that the company can change and become profitable. The operative word there is change. Now if you had bought Apple at the start of 2010 you have paid about $200 a share (I actually bought Apple at under $80 a share a little earlier than that based entirely upon their customer service philosophy) and now it is worth about $493 a share. Apple was incredibly profitable this last year and is summarily rated as a strong buy by knowledgeable stock experts. So, I am going to agree with you that there is a difference in the philosophies of the companies. You made that point for me. Now, back to an earlier point that I said I would get to in a minute. If so many people prefer the Android system, why is Apple so profitable and Motorola not? Because in the end, it is the consumer............the customer..........who makes that determination, not some contract point or minutia about who sold what. Motorola makes the phones. Motorola doesn't do anything for customer service. The customers are speaking pretty loudly. There is our disconnect. You and others here want to talk about stuff that really doesn't have an impact on the bottom line. You would probably make good executives at Motorola. You can discuss this from a legal perspective, even though that appears to have no bearing on the outcome. You would probably even worry, like the Motorola execs of doing something right for a customer because it would set a precedent right? Then you would just have to do something right more often. But you know what? You might actually become successful if you did? You see, I think it is you guys that don't get it. The Bionic and Motorola are interchangeable in our discussions. Motorola is the Bionic. Have you ever heard of a Company called Les Schwab? They sell tires. I think just out west, but maybe elsewhere. They sell service though, not tires. They advertise that fact. THey make no bones about the fact that if you buy a tire from Les Schwab you will pay more per tire than you will at almost any other tire store. They are incredibly successful. In most Cities out here they have driven most of their competition out of business. Now they don't build their own tires, they buy the tires elsewhere. Some tires are built under the Schwab brand name but most are just regular tires you can get anywhere...................again for less money. But Schwab will fix any problem with any tire that you have at any time. Every store has a mobile truck that can go change a flat for someone who calls them. They rotate tires for free..............they fix flats for free....................when a tire does not reach the manufacturers guarenteed mileage they have a very generous adjustment that they make on new tires.....................no questions asked. Again.............they are incredibly profitable and successful. You spend some money to make some money. That is the real world.
Anyway, I do appreciate your courtesy when you responded to me. That was a nice change from the norm here (there were some others too). There is just too much dissonance in the way we think for us to agree on much but in the end I have to maintain that in the real world (when the rubber meets the road
) you are thinking about this in the wrong way.
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LaurelRaven
Member
This is an excellent point. Consider this, though:
You buy a Good Year tire from Les Schwab. You have problems with that tire. Good Year isn't the one supporting it, Les Schwab is.
Motorola makes a phone, and as per their contract with Verizon, Verizon provides the support, and so is in a better place to support them. This allows Motorola to spend more of their money on research and working on patches.
In the end, if Les Schwab was making you happy with their service, why did you call Good Year?
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LaurelRaven
Member
Oh, and I get that at this point, I'm feeding the troll, but he's being such an entertaining troll.
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Oh come on, I bet you say that to all the guys. I'm blushing.
And I hope you all are having as much fun as i am. I am retired so I have a lot of time on my hands during the winter, so lets do it. But if you are going to feed me, send a coffee card with it, I do like my coffee when I play.