Possible Ways to Crack the Bootloader

[czerdrill]

Well this is a bummer. I get that makes sense though, what would be the point of a digital signature if you could just work around it. Well at least I have a better understanding of encryption now... lol.

@czerdrill
Regarding you post about donations, I kind of disagree considering the fact that Koush and Birdman set out to unlock the bootloader and ended up with ClockworkMod. They still built something tangible that works and might not be the real thing but is the second best option we got. If it weren't for their initial mission, they would have never achieved that.

{{ WugFresh }}

yeah, encryption wouldn't be encryption if your average joe could just mess around with a few files and break it. encryption like this is rock solid and isn't going to be cracked, at least not any time in the near future. that's a good thing though overall, because encryption like that is what protects our personal information on websites, online stores etc. remember, hackers know there is no point in trying to crack encryption. it's a useless battle. that's why they try to find other exploits to do their work. in other words, bypasses or workarounds.

i want to make it clear that i have nothing against donating to devs, i've donated to devs myself. if i use something they created, i feel its only right to donate to them.

my point about misleading and asking for donations are to those people who are not doing anything else but trying to "crack" the bootloader. i dont know any names off the top of my head, but i know there are some out there who say they're close, or they are almost there and then ask for donations. it's misleading and it's for all intents and purposes a lie. they're not close nor are they almost there. i will never donate to a dev whose goal is to crack the bootloader because that's just throwing my money away to a useless cause. saying "it won't happen if you dont try" is all great and all, but not realistic in anyway. it's just cliche.

if you create a ROM and I use it I'll donate. But if you create a ROM and then say "I'm going to start working on cracking the bootloader now, please donate" you're not getting more money from me, because you're not doing anything. Other then wasting your time, and misleading others. The sad thing is the hero worship gets out of control on this forum, so I'm sure a lot of people have donated to this cause because they think a dev with one computer running Ubuntu is going to accomplish something that thousands of computers running concurrently by hundreds of actual hackers who have been hired for that very reason have come nowhere near to accomplishing....

 

[WugFresh]

@aliasxerog
What checks the sbf files actual checksum to then check it against the one stored on the file which is digitally signed? RSDlite or android? Could you somehow trick whatever checks the sbf files actual checksum to just thinking its the untampered one? Like if its it from RSDlites end... I feel like you could just screw with the program (or rebuild it) to make it think the checksum is the same no matter what.
If its android though... I don't really see how this could be done.;. I am just curious because this piece of the puzzle will help bring it full circle for me.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[WugFresh]

Well this is a bummer. I get that makes sense though, what would be the point of a digital signature if you could just work around it. Well at least I have a better understanding of encryption now... lol.

@czerdrill
Regarding you post about donations, I kind of disagree considering the fact that Koush and Birdman set out to unlock the bootloader and ended up with ClockworkMod. They still built something tangible that works and might not be the real thing but is the second best option we got. If it weren't for their initial mission, they would have never achieved that.

{{ WugFresh }}

yeah, encryption wouldn't be encryption if your average joe could just mess around with a few files and break it. encryption like this is rock solid and isn't going to be cracked, at least not any time in the near future. that's a good thing though overall, because encryption like that is what protects our personal information on websites, online stores etc. remember, hackers know there is no point in trying to crack encryption. it's a useless battle. that's why they try to find other exploits to do their work. in other words, bypasses or workarounds.

i want to make it clear that i have nothing against donating to devs, i've donated to devs myself. if i use something they created, i feel its only right to donate to them.

my point about misleading and asking for donations are to those people who are not doing anything else but trying to "crack" the bootloader. i dont know any names off the top of my head, but i know there are some out there who say they're close, or they are almost there and then ask for donations. it's misleading and it's for all intents and purposes a lie. they're not close nor are they almost there. i will never donate to a dev whose goal is to crack the bootloader because that's just throwing my money away to a useless cause. saying "it won't happen if you dont try" is all great and all, but not realistic in anyway. it's just cliche.

if you create a ROM and I use it I'll donate. But if you create a ROM and then say "I'm going to start working on cracking the bootloader now, please donate" you're not getting more money from me, because you're not doing anything. Other then wasting your time, and misleading others. The sad thing is the hero worship gets out of control on this forum, so I'm sure a lot of people have donated to this cause because they think a dev with one computer running Ubuntu is going to accomplish something that thousands of computers running concurrently by hundreds of actual hackers who have been hired for that very reason have come nowhere near to accomplishing....

For sure. Encryption is definitely necessary technology, there is no arguing that. There just shouldn't be encryption on our moto's lol.

Will you donate to me if just say that I like donations because I am a broke college student..? lol. No, I understand... the only thing regarding android that I have ever requested a donation for was for WugPort because its tangible and useful. (still needs revisions on the GB version... but I will get that out this week, plus I think I finally have a scheme for automated xml edits worked out so it will finally be the program I originally wanted it to be.. hooray! lol, and it that case... I am all for beer fund. ) /rant

Well I am sorry for trolling about cracking it this way.. could have ended a lot sooner if someone just explained to me how the whole encryption scheme actually worked... but I guess to the same extent, its probably better that I came to the realization myself (plus I am usually pretty set in my ways until I figure out that I am wrong.. but I wouldn't have been able to deny the facts if they were presented clearly). All in all, I have a much better understanding of this all works now though, so no harm done as far as I am concerned.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[plslowmo]

+1

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

 

[czerdrill]

Not trolling at all. It's good to learn things on your own. I'm like that too, when someone tells me something is impossible I like to show myself that it's actually impossible. I just wish everyone would come to that realization already and stop wasting their time trying to crack it and especially stop collecting money from people who really think it's going to happen.

These phones are great phones, even without the ability to throw custom ROMs on them, and they're only going to get better. I think it'll be more tragic if they somehow figure out how to take root away cuz that would suck (but I doubt they can do that, save them just outright identifying and canceling people who root, but that's a dumb approach)

 

[WugFresh]

Not trolling at all. It's good to learn things on your own. I'm like that too, when someone tells me something is impossible I like to show myself that it's actually impossible. I just wish everyone would come to that realization already and stop wasting their time trying to crack it and especially stop collecting money from people who really think it's going to happen.

These phones are great phones, even without the ability to throw custom ROMs on them, and they're only going to get better. I think it'll be more tragic if they somehow figure out how to take root away cuz that would suck (but I doubt they can do that, save them just outright identifying and canceling people who root, but that's a dumb approach)

For sure. Don't get me wrong though.

I am still not giving up on these keys though nor do I plan on sitting back and letting android become locked down. I still plan on continuing my work towards securing a brighter android future and will continue working on exposing the issue in the media.

I am still going to continue work on the IMC and am going to get back to working with ibproud for expanding the message. Check out the recent news, we are starting to get real media exposure, it's only going to blow up more: Visualized: what Motorola Android users want -- Engadget

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[czerdrill]

Not trolling at all. It's good to learn things on your own. I'm like that too, when someone tells me something is impossible I like to show myself that it's actually impossible. I just wish everyone would come to that realization already and stop wasting their time trying to crack it and especially stop collecting money from people who really think it's going to happen.

These phones are great phones, even without the ability to throw custom ROMs on them, and they're only going to get better. I think it'll be more tragic if they somehow figure out how to take root away cuz that would suck (but I doubt they can do that, save them just outright identifying and canceling people who root, but that's a dumb approach)

For sure. Don't get me wrong though. I am still not giving up on these keys though or not doing anything to secure open android for the future. I am still going to continue work on the IMC and am going to get back to working with ibproud for expanding the message. Check out the recent news, we are starting to get real media exposure, it's only going to blow up more: Visualized: what Motorola Android users want -- Engadget

{{ WugFresh }}

haha i commented on the thread with that poll already

1) you can vote multiple times and for multiple options, so that poll really doesn't mean much

2) even if it was unique votes (which it's not), to get even 10% of D1 users alone, you'd need over 100,000 votes...so 16,000 is not anything that will cause any company to change their ways. that's probably less than half of half of one percent of their base...

its going to be hard to convince a company to completely change their strategy, especially if it's to please such an irrelevant amount of users...but good effort lol

i think what this poll actually shows is that there just isnt that many people who care about unlocked bootloaders and not the other way around...

 

[wssneids]

Just called moto reps. Asked if there was any news on unlocking the bootloader. The rep says in an indian accent after putting me on hold for 5 minutes that motorola's software engineers are working with devolpers on a bootloader solution. Now this is probably an adivsor going oh **** say something that will make him happy but im personally hoping that she was legit. Has anyone else contacted motorola since the facebook quiz and gotten a smilar response?

Sent from my DROID2 using DroidForums

 

[czerdrill]

Just called moto reps. Asked if there was any news on unlocking the bootloader. The rep says in an indian accent after putting me on hold for 5 minutes that motorola's software engineers are working with devolpers on a bootloader solution. Now this is probably an adivsor going oh **** say something that will make him happy but im personally hoping that she was legit. Has anyone else contacted motorola since the facebook quiz and gotten a smilar response?

Sent from my DROID2 using DroidForums

was "in an indian accent" necessary? lol...anyway, i think they said this after that moto employee said "if you dont like it go somewhere else"...sounds more like damage control, but who knows maybe they'll surprise us...but doubtful haha.

 

[BackSeatSuicide]

Not trolling at all. It's good to learn things on your own. I'm like that too, when someone tells me something is impossible I like to show myself that it's actually impossible. I just wish everyone would come to that realization already and stop wasting their time trying to crack it and especially stop collecting money from people who really think it's going to happen.

These phones are great phones, even without the ability to throw custom ROMs on them, and they're only going to get better. I think it'll be more tragic if they somehow figure out how to take root away cuz that would suck (but I doubt they can do that, save them just outright identifying and canceling people who root, but that's a dumb approach)

For sure. Don't get me wrong though.

I am still not giving up on these keys though nor do I plan on sitting back and letting android become locked down. I still plan on continuing my work towards securing a brighter android future and will continue working on exposing the issue in the media.

I am still going to continue work on the IMC and am going to get back to working with ibproud for expanding the message. Check out the recent news, we are starting to get real media exposure, it's only going to blow up more: Visualized: what Motorola Android users want -- Engadget

{{ WugFresh }}

I agree, I think the petitions and the voting and all the other ways were getting motos attention is our best bet. A lot more important and impossible seeming things have been achieved with the same methods, so I have a lot of faith that it will work. HTC listens to their customers and their the top sellers of android phones, and I think moto is starting to see that, and I know they would love the sells figures HTC has, so I really believe they will come around, cause in the end its about money and sells, and they would not only gain new customers and more money if they unlocked the bootloader, but they will also stop exsisting customers from jumping ship, cause they do make good phones, that's why we buy them, but I know people who loved their droids, especially the Droid X, but they ended up switching to HTC or Samsung, cause of the unlocked bootloader. So unlocking the bootloader is in Motos best intrest and I think their starting to see that. So we just gotta keep going and not give up and they will come around. The petition already has over 8,200 signatures and counting. And I've been promoting using Facebook and twitter and email as well as good ol' fashinoned word of mouth. So all of you should do the same if you already aren't.

Sent using my Droid X, Powered by Rubix Focused 2.0.1

 

[plslowmo]

So I opened up a SBF with a text editor and compared it to what I was able to capture through the USB. Pretty much identical, same exact X.509 cert in about the same place. So unless nobody ever looked at the SBF through a text editor then I found nothing new. Its interesting to note though, the SBF gets transferred in the same order that it is written.

 

[WugFresh]

Not trolling at all. It's good to learn things on your own. I'm like that too, when someone tells me something is impossible I like to show myself that it's actually impossible. I just wish everyone would come to that realization already and stop wasting their time trying to crack it and especially stop collecting money from people who really think it's going to happen.

These phones are great phones, even without the ability to throw custom ROMs on them, and they're only going to get better. I think it'll be more tragic if they somehow figure out how to take root away cuz that would suck (but I doubt they can do that, save them just outright identifying and canceling people who root, but that's a dumb approach)

For sure. Don't get me wrong though. I am still not giving up on these keys though or not doing anything to secure open android for the future. I am still going to continue work on the IMC and am going to get back to working with ibproud for expanding the message. Check out the recent news, we are starting to get real media exposure, it's only going to blow up more: Visualized: what Motorola Android users want -- Engadget

{{ WugFresh }}

haha i commented on the thread with that poll already

1) you can vote multiple times and for multiple options, so that poll really doesn't mean much

2) even if it was unique votes (which it's not), to get even 10% of D1 users alone, you'd need over 100,000 votes...so 16,000 is not anything that will cause any company to change their ways. that's probably less than half of half of their base...

its going to be hard to convince a company to completely change their strategy, especially if it's to please such an irrelevant amount of users...but good effort lol

i think what this poll actually shows is that there just isnt that many people who care about unlocked bootloaders and not the other way around...

I actually strongly disagree. That poll is great for us because a group of hackers didn't put together the webpage, Moto did! That is genuine Motorola FB page and the most predominately displayed topic is the bootloader issue. It was at 10,000 like two days ago, it has been increasing at a near exponential rate. Futhermore, the topic has now been published on numerous noteworthy and reputable media sites so moto will really have to think twice before pulling the page.

The actual number of votes is only going to keep increasing, but that is actually the least relevant components to that webpage.

Moto effectively did everything I could have ever wished for regarding the initial goals I set out for the petition; that being, to use the petition for the purpose of gaining media exposure, and ultimately to utilize that media exposure to go after Moto's brand image.

Brand recognition and positive association account for one of the most value assets a company can have. Marketing is centralized around this topic; every single thing that a company distributes to the public is all tied back to the brand. That's what consistent imagery and marketing tactics are all about.

Brand recognition and positive association are something companies work extremely hard at and can be equated to billions of dollars in value.

Having a Moto run webstie where the only thing that is being discussed in unlocking the bootloader, instantly associates their brand with that issue. That FB is going to become extraordinarily detrimental to them and if I were on their marketing team I would have gotten that page pulled down a long time. But they can't now, the story is already getting exposure.

They did it for us! I can't believe it!

What I am trying to explain, is that 16K votes and predominately displayed text for "Unlocking the bootlader" all over a webpage made by Moto is 100 times more powerful then a third party site with four times the amounts of signatures. Moto shot themselves in the foot with this one, and if people are interested in helping the cause, I would strongly advise continuing to milk this for all its worth. The longer that sites up the more damage it does, and the more awareness it spreads.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[czerdrill]

For sure. Don't get me wrong though. I am still not giving up on these keys though or not doing anything to secure open android for the future. I am still going to continue work on the IMC and am going to get back to working with ibproud for expanding the message. Check out the recent news, we are starting to get real media exposure, it's only going to blow up more: Visualized: what Motorola Android users want -- Engadget

{{ WugFresh }}

haha i commented on the thread with that poll already

1) you can vote multiple times and for multiple options, so that poll really doesn't mean much

2) even if it was unique votes (which it's not), to get even 10% of D1 users alone, you'd need over 100,000 votes...so 16,000 is not anything that will cause any company to change their ways. that's probably less than half of half of their base...

its going to be hard to convince a company to completely change their strategy, especially if it's to please such an irrelevant amount of users...but good effort lol

i think what this poll actually shows is that there just isnt that many people who care about unlocked bootloaders and not the other way around...

I actually strongly disagree. That poll is great for us because a group of hackers didn't put together the webpage, Moto did! That is genuine Motorola FB page and the most predominately displayed topic is the bootloader issue. It was at 10,000 like two days ago, it has been increasing at a near exponential rate. Futhermore, the topic has now been published on numerous noteworthy and reputable media sites so moto will really have to think twice before pulling the page.

The actual number of votes is only going to keep increasing, but that is actually the least relevant components to that webpage.

Moto effectively did everything I could have ever wished for regarding the initial goals I set out for the petition; that being, to use the petition for the purpose of gaining media exposure, and ultimately to utilize that media exposure to go after Moto's brand image.

Brand recognition and positive association account for one of the most value assets a company can have. Marketing is centralized around this topic; every single thing that a company distributes to the public is all tied back to the brand. That's what consistent imagery and marketing tactics are all about.

Brand recognition and positive association are something companies work extremely hard at and can be equated to billions of dollars in value.

Having a Moto run webstie where the only thing that is being discussed in unlocking the bootloader, instantly associates their brand with that issue. That FB is going to become extraordinarily detrimental to them and if I were on their marketing team I would have gotten that page pulled down a long time. But they can't now, the story is already getting exposure.

They did it for us! I can't believe it!

What I am trying to explain, is that 16K votes and predominately displayed text for "Unlocking the bootlader" all over a webpage made by Moto is 100 times more powerful then a third party site with four times the amounts of signatures. Moto shot themselves in the foot with this one, and if people are interested in helping the cause, I would strongly advise continuing to milk this for all its worth. The longer that sites up the more damage it does, and the more awareness it spreads.

{{ WugFresh }}

Lol. I think you need to learn how to look at things objectively,man. You will see that that fb page has no effect whatsoever on motos strategy moving forward. To me it just looks like someone defacing a poll for their own reasons then actually caring about an issue.

Motos not thinking "omg what do we do now???"...they're thinking "wow what a waste of an fb poll".

They asked what app people want and a bunch of obnoxious people defaced the poll. That's not going to make them give in. As for it growing exponentially, like I said you can vote multiple times for multiple options over and over again. That 16000 is probably more like five or six thousand...most probably even less than that...please don't deny that people are not voting a crapload of times. And yes, moto know that that's what happening too...

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[WugFresh]

haha i commented on the thread with that poll already

1) you can vote multiple times and for multiple options, so that poll really doesn't mean much

2) even if it was unique votes (which it's not), to get even 10% of D1 users alone, you'd need over 100,000 votes...so 16,000 is not anything that will cause any company to change their ways. that's probably less than half of half of their base...

its going to be hard to convince a company to completely change their strategy, especially if it's to please such an irrelevant amount of users...but good effort lol

i think what this poll actually shows is that there just isnt that many people who care about unlocked bootloaders and not the other way around...

I actually strongly disagree. That poll is great for us because a group of hackers didn't put together the webpage, Moto did! That is genuine Motorola FB page and the most predominately displayed topic is the bootloader issue. It was at 10,000 like two days ago, it has been increasing at a near exponential rate. Futhermore, the topic has now been published on numerous noteworthy and reputable media sites so moto will really have to think twice before pulling the page.

The actual number of votes is only going to keep increasing, but that is actually the least relevant components to that webpage.

Moto effectively did everything I could have ever wished for regarding the initial goals I set out for the petition; that being, to use the petition for the purpose of gaining media exposure, and ultimately to utilize that media exposure to go after Moto's brand image.

Brand recognition and positive association account for one of the most value assets a company can have. Marketing is centralized around this topic; every single thing that a company distributes to the public is all tied back to the brand. That's what consistent imagery and marketing tactics are all about.

Brand recognition and positive association are something companies work extremely hard at and can be equated to billions of dollars in value.

Having a Moto run webstie where the only thing that is being discussed in unlocking the bootloader, instantly associates their brand with that issue. That FB is going to become extraordinarily detrimental to them and if I were on their marketing team I would have gotten that page pulled down a long time. But they can't now, the story is already getting exposure.

They did it for us! I can't believe it!

What I am trying to explain, is that 16K votes and predominately displayed text for "Unlocking the bootlader" all over a webpage made by Moto is 100 times more powerful then a third party site with four times the amounts of signatures. Moto shot themselves in the foot with this one, and if people are interested in helping the cause, I would strongly advise continuing to milk this for all its worth. The longer that sites up the more damage it does, and the more awareness it spreads.

{{ WugFresh }}

Lol. I think you need to learn how to look at things objectively,man. You will see that that fb page has no effect whatsoever on motos strategy moving forward. To me it just looks like someone defacing a poll for their own reasons then actually caring about an issue.

Motos not thinking "omg what do we do now???"...they're thinking "wow what a waste of an fb poll".

They asked what app people want and a bunch of obnoxious people defaced the poll. That's not going to make them give in. As for it growing exponentially, like I said you can vote multiple times for multiple options over and over again. That 16000 is probably more like five or six thousand...most probably even less than that...please don't deny that people are not voting a crapload of times. And yes, moto know that that's what happening too...

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Not denying that people voted multiple times. I don't think moto is freaking out. But I do think that the more predominately this issue becomes displayed all over the web the more relevant it becomes because it taints potentials customers perceived image of moto. Considering this was published in Engadget already is promising and only helps the cause. A lot of people trust that website for technology advice. The more the better, but one thing is for sure.. it is much easier to push/promote that FB than a third party petition site. It's has a higher chance of becoming more pervasive. I really think that there is still a chance that these companies may consider offering unlocked devices in the near future. It looks like they already have got a pretty good plan established to deal with tethering, or at the very least they are making good progress.
Tethering Use Is Being Recorded

I don't know what kind of plans they would offer, but I certainly could see them doing it Sony style and just voiding warranties. If there tracking methods for tethering become any better, then I could see them doing it.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[wssneids]

Just called moto reps. Asked if there was any news on unlocking the bootloader. The rep says in an indian accent after putting me on hold for 5 minutes that motorola's software engineers are working with devolpers on a bootloader solution. Now this is probably an adivsor going oh **** say something that will make him happy but im personally hoping that she was legit. Has anyone else contacted motorola since the facebook quiz and gotten a smilar response?

Sent from my DROID2 using DroidForums

was "in an indian accent" necessary? lol...anyway, i think they said this after that moto employee said "if you dont like it go somewhere else"...sounds more like damage control, but who knows maybe they'll surprise us...but doubtful haha.

Well.. no it wasn't neccasary. It should just be assumed due to all the outsourcing... but in all reality it probably is just damage control. But I hope it isn't. Or maybe we could bribe moto. Its worked in the past.. trade secrets and all. http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...es+engaging+bribery+abroad/4496553/story.html and as a side note on the decryption thing I read somewhere that you can hook up several ps3's and having some real computing power.

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