sbf

[Jolly]

The locks aren't coming regardless of they're coming because of. If people were honorable and didn't try to cheat the Carriers and Manufacturers. If people didn't abuse the System then the locks would be less likely. Sending a phone back for a legitimate defect is understandable sending the phone back and lying because you bricked is wrong.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

That doesn't make much sense to me. The logic just isn't there.
More stricter locks = more bricked phones = more dishonest returns = less profit.

Not to mention the costs of creating the security crap and maintaining it. I'm not saying Jolly is wrong, I'm just saying that if this is what the carriers and manufacturers are doing, they are doing it wrong.

Someone else mentioned that even without the locks there were still bricks, probably less, but still bricks. What if Verizon went the other way. Made it easier to mod and recover from bricked phones.
Less locks = less bricked phones; the phones that did manage to get bricked could be brought in to a Verizon store, plugged in and sbf'd on the spot. No need to return a phone.

Granted there would be the true bricks, but if V and M worked more on preventing the bricks instead of creating an environment where bricks multiply like rabbits, the world would be a better place. And Bush and Osama would sit down for a cup of tea.

What I'm trying to say is this: If something is wrong with hardware, that's one thing. But if phones are being returned solely because some software got messed up, something is wrong. Software should be able to be easily restored, especially by the manufacturer.

No matter what has been said in this thread, the underlying fact is not in dispu, what he has done is theft. Pure and simple. You and man others are trying to justify the fraud and theft but it is not a rationale excuse and holds no legitimte or legal weight. You know what we do and how active we are, but we do not believe in defauding or stealing from the companies due to one's own negligence.

Make it sound however nice you want so you can sleep at night but we all pay in our service fees and the price of our hones when you steal. To think otherwise is juvenile and niave.

As usual I agree with P3Droid. He is one of the most knowledgeable and respected members in this Community.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

 

[Jolly]

That doesn't make much sense to me. The logic just isn't there.
More stricter locks = more bricked phones = more dishonest returns = less profit.

Not to mention the costs of creating the security crap and maintaining it. I'm not saying Jolly is wrong, I'm just saying that if this is what the carriers and manufacturers are doing, they are doing it wrong.

Someone else mentioned that even without the locks there were still bricks, probably less, but still bricks. What if Verizon went the other way. Made it easier to mod and recover from bricked phones.
Less locks = less bricked phones; the phones that did manage to get bricked could be brought in to a Verizon store, plugged in and sbf'd on the spot. No need to return a phone.

Granted there would be the true bricks, but if V and M worked more on preventing the bricks instead of creating an environment where bricks multiply like rabbits, the world would be a better place. And Bush and Osama would sit down for a cup of tea.

What I'm trying to say is this: If something is wrong with hardware, that's one thing. But if phones are being returned solely because some software got messed up, something is wrong. Software should be able to be easily restored, especially by the manufacturer.

Logical or not locks are coming and it's because people are taking advantage of the Carriers and Manufacturers. I will agree that non locked down phones are easier to fix. But if you make the phone unmodable then they don't have to worry about people taking advantage of the return policies.



Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

Indeed, and the more they get bricked phones due to modding- the more they will keep trying to lock down tighter and tighter and tighter.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Exactly. Looks like the whole MDW crew is showing up for this party.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

 

[NattyBee]

That doesn't make much sense to me. The logic just isn't there.
More stricter locks = more bricked phones = more dishonest returns = less profit.

Not to mention the costs of creating the security crap and maintaining it. I'm not saying Jolly is wrong, I'm just saying that if this is what the carriers and manufacturers are doing, they are doing it wrong.

Someone else mentioned that even without the locks there were still bricks, probably less, but still bricks. What if Verizon went the other way. Made it easier to mod and recover from bricked phones.
Less locks = less bricked phones; the phones that did manage to get bricked could be brought in to a Verizon store, plugged in and sbf'd on the spot. No need to return a phone.

Granted there would be the true bricks, but if V and M worked more on preventing the bricks instead of creating an environment where bricks multiply like rabbits, the world would be a better place. And Bush and Osama would sit down for a cup of tea.

What I'm trying to say is this: If something is wrong with hardware, that's one thing. But if phones are being returned solely because some software got messed up, something is wrong. Software should be able to be easily restored, especially by the manufacturer.

No matter what has been said in this thread, the underlying fact is not in dispu, what he has done is theft. Pure and simple. You and man others are trying to justify the fraud and theft but it is not a rationale excuse and holds no legitimte or legal weight. You know what we do and how active we are, but we do not believe in defauding or stealing from the companies due to one's own negligence.

Make it sound however nice you want so you can sleep at night but we all pay in our service fees and the price of our hones when you steal. To think otherwise is juvenile and niave.

As usual I agree with P3Droid. He is one of the most knowledgeable and respected members in this Community.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

And he has been such since long before the release of the DX, if i'm not mistaken...

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[NattyBee]

Logical or not locks are coming and it's because people are taking advantage of the Carriers and Manufacturers. I will agree that non locked down phones are easier to fix. But if you make the phone unmodable then they don't have to worry about people taking advantage of the return policies.



Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

Indeed, and the more they get bricked phones due to modding- the more they will keep trying to lock down tighter and tighter and tighter.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Exactly. Looks like the whole MDW crew is showing up for this party.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

sorry, I know I get long-winded sometimes, but hey- what's wrong is wrong. And it's so irritating when people argue so to justify their wrong actions.


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[saulback]

No matter what has been said in this thread, the underlying fact is not in dispu, what he has done is theft. Pure and simple. You and man others are trying to justify the fraud and theft but it is not a rationale excuse and holds no legitimte or legal weight. You know what we do and how active we are, but we do not believe in defauding or stealing from the companies due to one's own negligence.

Make it sound however nice you want so you can sleep at night but we all pay in our service fees and the price of our phones when you steal. To think otherwise is juvenile and niave.

I completely agree 100%. I didn't mean to imply that I condone it. I have spent hours sweating over my droid x, finally to have fixed it. The locked bootloader just seems bad for the customer, and bad for business.

 

[Jolly]

Indeed, and the more they get bricked phones due to modding- the more they will keep trying to lock down tighter and tighter and tighter.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Exactly. Looks like the whole MDW crew is showing up for this party.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

sorry, I know I get long-winded sometimes, but hey- what's wrong is wrong. And it's so irritating when people argue so to justify their wrong actions.


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Yeah people stealing and taking advantage of the system doesn't sit well with me either. And weather you're stealing from a billion dollar company or a Mom and Pop corner store. Stealing is stealing no matter how these people try to justify it. And not only are they stealing from VZW they're stealing from every Android user. How they can rationalize it is beyond me. I but they wouldn't like it if someone came in and stole from them personally the rationalized it by saying, "Hey it's okay you make or have more money than me so it's okay to steal from you." Which is pretty much what these guys are saying.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

 

[Aixelsyd]

The locks aren't coming regardless of they're coming because of. If people were honorable and didn't try to cheat the Carriers and Manufacturers. If people didn't abuse the System then the locks would be less likely. Sending a phone back for a legitimate defect is understandable sending the phone back and lying because you bricked is wrong.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

That doesn't make much sense to me. The logic just isn't there.
More stricter locks = more bricked phones = more dishonest returns = less profit.

Not to mention the costs of creating the security crap and maintaining it. I'm not saying Jolly is wrong, I'm just saying that if this is what the carriers and manufacturers are doing, they are doing it wrong.

Someone else mentioned that even without the locks there were still bricks, probably less, but still bricks. What if Verizon went the other way. Made it easier to mod and recover from bricked phones.
Less locks = less bricked phones; the phones that did manage to get bricked could be brought in to a Verizon store, plugged in and sbf'd on the spot. No need to return a phone.

Granted there would be the true bricks, but if V and M worked more on preventing the bricks instead of creating an environment where bricks multiply like rabbits, the world would be a better place. And Bush and Osama would sit down for a cup of tea.

What I'm trying to say is this: If something is wrong with hardware, that's one thing. But if phones are being returned solely because some software got messed up, something is wrong. Software should be able to be easily restored, especially by the manufacturer.

No matter what has been said in this thread, the underlying fact is not in dispu, what he has done is theft. Pure and simple. You and man others are trying to justify the fraud and theft but it is not a rationale excuse and holds no legitimte or legal weight. You know what we do and how active we are, but we do not believe in defauding or stealing from the companies due to one's own negligence.

Make it sound however nice you want so you can sleep at night but we all pay in our service fees and the price of our phones when you steal. To think otherwise is juvenile and niave.

Couldn't have said it better myself P3 as I totally agree. As always right on point with LOGICAL sense, unlike the other BS excuses being posted in this thread on justifying what they are doing.

 

[nerdkill]

i in no way agree with sending back a phone that you have personally bricked (most likely soft bricked) and are too lazy to read and figure out how to fix. most of my fun has been when i think i really screwed something up and read and researched enough to fix it on my own. there is something very gratifying about that and you learn your phone in and out that way. HOWEVER

how about a restore feature like apple has on itunes? they wouldn't have as many returns if there was an easy way back to stock. why are we always fighting for and getting sbfs pulled? cease and desist orders etc.

it's so hard to truly brick your phone, just do some reading and fix it yourself. if you don't have the time/patience/ intelligence etc... to fix a phone then you shouldn't be moding it in the first place. shut up and fix it and share with the community how you did so.

 

[furbearingmammal]

Sending in a phone that's been bricked simply because someone was too lazy to read that you can't flash D2 ROMs onto a D2G phone is straight up insurance fraud. Now, if you file a claim with Asurion, that's a bit different, but getting a "free" replacement for your own stupidity or, at best, lack of comprehension is unethical, illegal, and flat out stupid in the long run.

I applaud Team Black Hat's dedication to keeping hacking safer for everyone! Thanks guys! I really appreciate your hard work.

 

[piousminion]

screw that

I fully support sending back any device that is bricked no matter how it got that way.

Instead of spending all that money on preventing mods and locking us out of the devices we own, they could have spent a whole lot less on making them unbrickable and stable. News flash, they want them to get bricked if you mod.

If they have no problem screwing me by locking it down then why should I have a problem sending something back that shouldn't have broke in the first place? Don't try to guilt trip us when we are the ones getting screwed. With the difference between manufacturing cost and sales price they are banking no matter what. Right and wrong are not synonymous with legal and illegal. You'd do well to remember that.

I'd like to add that I registered just to post this.

 

[NattyBee]

I fully support sending back any device that is bricked no matter how it got that way.

Instead of spending all that money on preventing mods and locking us out of the devices we own, they could have spent a whole lot less on making them unbrickable and stable. News flash, they want them to get bricked if you mod.

If they have no problem screwing me by locking it down then why should I have a problem sending something back that shouldn't have broke in the first place? Don't try to guilt trip us when we are the ones getting screwed. With the difference between manufacturing cost and sales price they are banking no matter what. Right and wrong are not synonymous with legal and illegal. You'd do well to remember that.

I'd like to add that I registered just to post this.

It wouldn't have broke in the first place, had you not messed with it. You were fully aware that messing with it brought the risk of bricking. Either fix it yourself, buy a new one out of your pocket, or don’t mess with it.

You're the guy who'd break into a house with a "beware of dog" sign and sue the owner when the dog attacks you, saying "the dog shouldn't have bitten me in the first place". Self justification doesn't make your dishonest behavior become right.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[piousminion]

I fully support sending back any device that is bricked no matter how it got that way.

Instead of spending all that money on preventing mods and locking us out of the devices we own, they could have spent a whole lot less on making them unbrickable and stable. News flash, they want them to get bricked if you mod.

If they have no problem screwing me by locking it down then why should I have a problem sending something back that shouldn't have broke in the first place? Don't try to guilt trip us when we are the ones getting screwed. With the difference between manufacturing cost and sales price they are banking no matter what. Right and wrong are not synonymous with legal and illegal. You'd do well to remember that.

I'd like to add that I registered just to post this.

It wouldn't have broke in the first place, had you not messed with it. You were fully aware that messing with it brought the risk of bricking. Either fix it yourself, buy a new one out of your pocket, or don’t mess with it.

You're the guy who'd break into a house with a "beware of dog" sign and sue the owner when the dog attacks you, saying "the dog shouldn't have bitten me in the first place". Self justification doesn't make your dishonest behavior become right.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Modding your phone, neither illegal nor wrong. Robbing a house, both illegal and wrong. Your analogy is severely flawed.

You are correct in that if I had never modified the phone (which I have every legal and moral right to) that it wouldn't have broke, but motorola designed the thing to break. If they had designed it better they wouldn't be paying for it now. If you ask me they should recall it and give their customers an apology for not designing it properly.

Note: I've not yet had to turn in my droidx, but I wouldn't hesitate at all. It might be illegal as hell, but it's very far from wrong.

 

[Dustin.]

How can we compare breaking into a house and robbing something with rooting a droid...?

And yes, he messed up his device, and stepped up and asked for help and its working now. If it wouldn't have booted up, I 100% backup him for wanting to and doing a return. Thats what a warranty and insurance is for. Even though it states that insurance and warranties are voided, people STILL do them. Because they know how much people fork out for these pieces of equipment.

Sent from my DROID X.

 

[NattyBee]

How can we compare breaking into a house and robbing something with rooting a droid...?

And yes, he messed up his device, and stepped up and asked for help and its working now. If it wouldn't have booted up, I 100% backup him for wanting to and doing a return. Thats what a warranty and insurance is for. Even though it states that insurance and warranties are voided, people STILL do them. Because they know how much people fork out for these pieces of equipment.

Sent from my DROID X.

Ok, stupid analogy...but I was comparing the fact that when you root, you are aware (just like the robber) that there are preventative measures in place to keep you out. Rooting is fub, sure, and if you can take responsibility for it- go, rot away, but if you feel that you breaking it (doing something you KNOW Moto is trying to prevent) falls under warranty...stop.

the thing is, like it or not, the phone runs just fine as intended by manufacturer. The bootloader is not a flaw, but a security measure designed to keep us out (house again, LOL), and it's intent is not to brick the phone, but rather to force you to leave it as is. We happen to.have wonderful people who found a way around that- and other wonderful people who have created amazing roms improving the crap outta these phones...but that doesn't change the fact that if you brick the device, it is YOUR error, not manufacturer's error, not VZW error. You broke the device doing something you were not supposed to be doing. DEAL WITH IT. Don’t try to scam yourself a new one, either fix YOUR MISTAKE or pay for YOUR MISTAKE.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[NattyBee]

How can we compare breaking into a house and robbing something with rooting a droid...?

And yes, he messed up his device, and stepped up and asked for help and its working now. If it wouldn't have booted up, I 100% backup him for wanting to and doing a return. Thats what a warranty and insurance is for. Even though it states that insurance and warranties are voided, people STILL do them. Because they know how much people fork out for these pieces of equipment.

Sent from my DROID X.

By the way, he who messed it up.and asked for/received help to fix it--very good! He is entirely excused from this argument. That has been stated by myself, Jolly, FSRBiker...we are all friends here. We are all willing to help you out- never hesitate to ask


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk