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Tethering - Here's why I wouldn't do it...

Unless they actually look at every site you have visited and monitor the kind of traffic eg. flash it's hard to see how they can get you.
When flash comes to droid then surely all bets are off.

VZ's terms of service and privacy policy allow them to monitor your data's destination and type. There's quite a bit besides flash that the droid doesn't suppport--java applets, netflix streaming, world of warcraft, various movie codecs. Only proxying and encryption can hide this stuff from VZ.

I don't know if VZ currently comes down on tetherers, but I don't think that cancelling your account plus charging an ETF are the worst things they can do. If they can show damages or what they normally charge per MB for tethering then a bill of over $1000 is possible. Just look at what the recording industry has gotten on a per song basis. It's wild.

Tethering is a new revenue stream for wireless companies. They have the potential to replace DSL/cable internet companies. There's a lot of money in that! VZ won't let unauthorized tethering stand. Tetherers often use a lot of bandwidth so VZ isn't making the margins they'd like there.

To any that call me a fearmonger and naysay these things: You really believe a corporation is going to let us use their resources without compensation?
 
Lets me start by saying ignorance is acceptable as long as you have never been taught the facts. But after you have learned the facts and continue with ignorance then it becomes stupidity.

Tethering 101 - The Facts and Myths.

The statement: Verizon can tell your are tethering and they also can tell what type of device is getting the data.

Lets break this down into two parts.

1) Verizon can see your are tethering.
2) Verizon can tell what type of device is getting the data.

Item number one is only 10% subjectively correct at best.
Item number two is only 50% subjectively correct.

Lets explore why I gave those numbers.

Verizon can't directly tell, using only one packet captured, if you are tethering. The simple answer for that is NAT.

NAT = Network Address Translation. It is the process of taking an IPV4 address and translating it between one or more internal IP (Internet Protocol) addresses. That translation is done by the tethering software. It uses stateful translation to make sure all packets are routed to the proper device. Since the software has the translation of internal IP + Port + Packet Type to Droid IP + Port + Packet Type, the only thing the outside world sees is the Droid talking, IE Droid IP + Port + Packet Type.

Read the following if you want the really long answer beyond my Reader Digest version: Network address translation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now how did I figure that 10% of the time they can catch you? Easy. If you make the mistake of hard coding a DNS address for your tethered device. The second you do a UDP with port 53 to a DNS address not controlled by Verizon, they know you are tethering. And they got you dead to rights.

Now the second answer is all about data modeling. If they inspect certain packets, lets say TCP on port 80 or 443 and manage to catch the Web Browser identifier, odds are it isn't going to be the built in one from the Droid. And hence they have you SORT OF dead to rights. The reason for the sort of? How many browsers are already on the Droid legally? Have your browser mimic any one of those and you start to reduce the exposure.

Next in line then is where you go and what type of content is being requested. That takes TONS of computer horse power to sift thru. They would probably spend more money than they were making. But one of the tests they could watch for is Windows looking to see if your install needs an update. That would sort of be a dead give away.

The last thing they could try is actually looking at how much bandwidth you use. And because the sales people all say that the Droid data plan is UNLIMITED, and so does our billing statements (both online and paper with no asterisks), they technically can't even use that against you unless they want a class action lawsuit on their hands.

So there you are.


And btw I tested all of this with a quick packet capture on one of my web servers to make sure that NAT tethering was being done properly.


OH before I forget, for all of you that are yelling "But it still breaks the ToS/Contract". You are 100% correct. But they would need a warrant to legally inspect your phone. I can be back at 2.0.1 unrooted in less than four minutes. Good luck with that. And do you really think a judge is going to grant a warrant in the first place with Verizon saying "We think he hacked his phone and he is using too much data"?
 
The percentages are 100% on both counts unless you encrypt and proxy. NAT has nothing to do with this.

VZ doesn't have to sift thru everyone's data. They'd start with the highest bandwidth users. Is any of their traffic coming from java applets, netflix streams, etc? Ok, send a bill per MB of usage. This can be automated and wouldn't require a lot of computing power.

If there's a lot of money in it for them, they'll find a way. Unless you hide your data 100% they can find out what you're up to and the ToS and privacy statement say they can.

What makes people think that a corporation will let you use their resources without compensation? Are you going to plead ignorance or just plain stupidity?
 
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I'll just add one thing for those who are saying, "Let's see Verizon try and get that ETF and data charges out of me!" -

Let's see you try and buy a car, open a bank account, rent an apartment or even get a job once they trash your credit rating.
 
I agree that tethering isn't the best thing to do, but the last two phones I have purchased: The Droid Eris and the Droid Incredible, have had no contractual agreement and there has been no stipulations on tethering. I know it costs VZW for customers to tether, both in fees and bandwidth for all its customers, but if they want to charge even more with my Incredible, they sure as well improve the performance.
 
I'll just add one thing for those who are saying, "Let's see Verizon try and get that ETF and data charges out of me!" -

Let's see you try and buy a car, open a bank account, rent an apartment or even get a job once they trash your credit rating.

well, I definatly don't think 'not paying' the bill works..... Verizon sells that debt to collection agencies, so Verizon gets their money, whether you pay it or not.
 
Look, has anyone actually tried to add a Mobile Broadbandconnect to their Droid? I think not because I have, three different times. And each time I was told I couldn't because my Motorola Droid didn't support tethering. I told each rep that I found an app on the parket that allowed me to tether - I just wanted to add the plan to be "legal." Each rep said it was ok to use the app and that they couldn't add the mobile broadband connect plan because my phone didn't support tethering. (FYI: The Android $15/month = Droid Incredible, not Motorola Droid).

Each rep said it was ok to tether, last rep said just keep it under 5GB.

.....
 
Look, has anyone actually tried to add a Mobile Broadbandconnect to their Droid? I think not because I have, three different times. And each time I was told I couldn't because my Motorola Droid didn't support tethering. I told each rep that I found an app on the parket that allowed me to tether - I just wanted to add the plan to be "legal." Each rep said it was ok to use the app and that they couldn't add the mobile broadband connect plan because my phone didn't support tethering. (FYI: The Android $15/month = Droid Incredible, not Motorola Droid).

Each rep said it was ok to tether, last rep said just keep it under 5GB.

.....

Yea, we've heard your story, and in all honesty, Verizon reps for the most part, don't know what they're talking about. Not saying I don't believe you about there being no plan for the Droid, but I believe a TOS over a rep anyday. With that said I don't believe anybody is going to get caught for tethering under 5 gigs, but people who push it will ruin it for everyone.
 
Yeah the third rep said that there is no plan for the Droid "YET" with a big emphasis on the yet - hence why she said it was ok to tether for now. Still, I'd feel a lot better if they'd just allow me to add the Droid Incredible tethering plan on my line after reading all these "tethering" threads.

Agreed with what you said - especially those I saw doing 50+GB. <wow>
 
All would be better if threads like this didn't exist and people stopped calling and asking about it... Sometimes its best to shut your damn mouth..
 
seriously if they went as far as asking for ETF and banning me from vzw after being a smartphone customer with them for like 6 years now they would get nothing and I would be a happy Nexus One owner
 
It's just like how Bright House cable cant tell (easily) which PC on my network gets the most use, as far as they know, it's all going to and from my router.

If you really believe that you could be in for a rude awakening. They can access your router at any time and they can see exactly what each device is doing.


I work for an ISP I can tell you you're extremely incorrect on that assumption. It is a HUGE breach of privacy, and becomes an illegal act if the router is firewalled and an attempt is made to view the LAN side of it. The only control we have is if we get a DCMA complaint from publishers accusing your IP range of stealing media.
 
In response to the last few posts:

ETF and cancelling your account are the least they can do. See article on $18,000 in bills sent to one family. Don't pay? They'll ruin your credit.

VZ has the right to analyze your data destination and type for compliance. Tethering is not compliant.

I don't think discussing this here is teaching VZ anything they don't know. They're salivating at the prospect of making dsl/cable internet obsolete. I predict a tethering crackdown in the future if it hasn't already started. Reason: no corporation will let you use their resources without paying. I'm just waiting to see the biggest bandwidth users get taken out.
 
Just to clarify, they'll ruin your credit, and THEN sell your debt to a collection agency. Dont think that the two are mutually exclusive.
 
2.2 update

It's funny how everybody is concerned about getting charged and or fined for tethering when the new 2.2 OTA update will have WiFi hotspot and Tethering built in.........Been doing it via pdanet since the droid came out....no problems, oh ya, thats 2 droids tethering on this account......:icon_eek:
 
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