Tim Cook Email Explains Why Apple Won't Help Hack Shooter's iPhone

[liftedplane]

So the potential to make the key already exists. I don't trust Apple with that capability anymore than I do the government. Plus I don't have an iPhone so I don't care. However, if doing this prevents a single death in the future then it needs to be done.

really? you can't seriously believe that this wouldn't be used again law abiding citizens eventually, if you do I want to live in whatever world you live in.

Not if you read fbi request which states that after apple assists with unlocking they can keep the software and destroy it if so they wish.

This is going to court and apple is guaranteed to lose as victims and their families will be assisting fbi.

and you can believe EVERYTHING that is written on the internet. good to know I can trust the government....

 

[thunderbolt_nick]

Let me ask a very serious question. Take technology out of the picture.

When a law enforcement officer comes to your house with a warrant, you are required by law to comply unless you meet one of the 3 criteria:

1) You have nothing to do with the case. Directly or indirectly.
2) You are not the owner of the dwelling or property
3) it is an undue burden to get them into the property

So, why is this an issue about privacy? In my opinion, a home is way more important to me than a smartphone. Have way more embarrassing things than my phone. However, unless I appeal to those three reasons listed, I am required by law to let that officer come into my home and fulfill the warrant. There would be no appeal process like is seen in this case. Evidence might be thrown out later on but that's a whole other conversation.

Lets bring tech back into this. Tech is a piece of property, just like my home, and falls within the same laws. Now, I'm not arguing for or against any party here, but this is not a privacy issue. I think us as tech users over value our pieces of property to throw 'privacy' as a concern. If this was such a concern, then in my opinion we should then be removing warrants altogether because if you don't want law enforcement in your phone, you don't want them in your house even peeking through the windows. Obviously, there are exceptions that would fall into a lot of these, but with this basic understanding, the FBI was well within their right to request this warrant. Let me reiterate:REQUEST THIS WARRANT. Not the whole backdoor ordeal. That is completely separate.

Now, Apple does have a case. It is an undue burden to technically recreate software to circumvent and break into a device or make a process overseen by a regulating body to ensure no contamination of data. They then have to take resources to do that and as Tim Cook stated is really, REALLY hard to do on an encrypted device. Also, warrants have to be very specific so they can't just go up and see everyone's data if this were to come to fruition. Only what they are looking for just like in a warrant search which on a phone would be very very hard to do.

Cook is right to challenge cause we and law enforcement do need guidance on this not only from the courts but from society. However, this has little to do with privacy or standing with Apple. FBI did nothing wrong in this request despite their past dealings with creating backdoors. Apple did nothing wrong by challenging this either. This is a topic that needs discussion through the appropriate channels but the oversensational idea about this privacy concern is in my opinion ridiculous.



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[UrbanBounca]

Well, I disagree with you, Nick. They want to access the phone via a backdoor program created by Apple. So, essentially, it's like law enforcement showing up to your house and forcing you to go through your own property while they watch.

This isn't about a single iPhone.

 

[mountainbikermark]

Let me ask a very serious question. Take technology out of the picture.

When a law enforcement officer comes to your house with a warrant, you are required by law to comply unless you meet one of the 3 criteria:

1) You have nothing to do with the case. Directly or indirectly.
2) You are not the owner of the dwelling or property
3) it is an undue burden to get them into the property

So, why is this an issue about privacy? In my opinion, a home is way more important to me than a smartphone. Have way more embarrassing things than my phone. However, unless I appeal to those three reasons listed, I am required by law to let that officer come into my home and fulfill the warrant. There would be no appeal process like is seen in this case. Evidence might be thrown out later on but that's a whole other conversation.

Lets bring tech back into this. Tech is a piece of property, just like my home, and falls within the same laws. Now, I'm not arguing for or against any party here, but this is not a privacy issue. I think us as tech users over value our pieces of property to throw 'privacy' as a concern. If this was such a concern, then in my opinion we should then be removing warrants altogether because if you don't want law enforcement in your phone, you don't want them in your house even peeking through the windows. Obviously, there are exceptions that would fall into a lot of these, but with this basic understanding, the FBI was well within their right to request this warrant. Let me reiterate:REQUEST THIS WARRANT. Not the whole backdoor ordeal. That is completely separate.

Now, Apple does have a case. It is an undue burden to technically recreate software to circumvent and break into a device or make a process overseen by a regulating body to ensure no contamination of data. They then have to take resources to do that and as Tim Cook stated is really, REALLY hard to do on an encrypted device. Also, warrants have to be very specific so they can't just go up and see everyone's data if this were to come to fruition. Only what they are looking for just like in a warrant search which on a phone would be very very hard to do.

Cook is right to challenge cause we and law enforcement do need guidance on this not only from the courts but from society. However, this has little to do with privacy or standing with Apple. FBI did nothing wrong in this request despite their past dealings with creating backdoors. Apple did nothing wrong by challenging this either. This is a topic that needs discussion through the appropriate channels but the oversensational idea about this privacy concern is in my opinion ridiculous.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Unlocking 1 phone would be the same as knocking on the door of your home with a warrant. What they're demanding is a master key that can unlock every home in the city. Your neighbor commits a crime. When the cops get that master key what's to stop them from checking your home next time while you're away in the name of homeland security? It may be unlawful at the moment for them to do so but if that law ever change they've already got the key should Apple comply and we all know not everything in federal government is in the best interest of homeland security by the stories released over the last several years about snooping.

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[thunderbolt_nick]

Unlocking 1 phone would be the same as knocking on the door of your home with a warrant. What they're demanding is a master key that can unlock every home in the city. Your neighbor commits a crime. When the cops get that master key what's to stop them from checking your home next time while you're away in the name of homeland security? It may be unlawful at the moment for them to do so but if that law ever change they've already got the key should Apple comply and we all know not everything in federal government is in the best interest of homeland security by the stories released over the last several years about snooping.

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That's what the court and the laws are for to make that determination and what kind of oversight that has. We are a land of laws.

From what I understand, the warrant stated for Apple to find a way into the phone, not create a key for anyone to use. You have one good point, that it may be a slippery slope if other entities decide to take advantage of this situation, but with that same reasoning that's why this needs to be discussed in a court of law to lay a foundation of what law enforcement can and can't do. Again, FBI did nothing wrong in the eyes of the law to request the search of a piece of property.

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[mountainbikermark]

That's what the court and the laws are for to make that determination and what kind of oversight that has. We are a land of laws.

From what I understand, the warrant stated for Apple to find a way into the phone, not create a key for anyone to use. You have one good point, that it may be a slippery slope if other entities decide to take advantage of this situation, but with that same reasoning that's why this needs to be discussed in a court of law to lay a foundation of what law enforcement can and can't do. Again, FBI did nothing wrong in the eyes of the law to request the search of a piece of property.

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In the eyes of the law I totally agree with you. It's what the law is interpreted as that I have a problem with. As the law is more and more morphed into today's social and security issues instead of justice being blind it's a scary time. Look at how the story is being used by the media and politicians as scare tactics, one way or the other, in an election year. This is just a symptom of a much bigger problem that is only getting worse as the whirlpool of freedom goes downward, scaring Americans who demand more security to offset the freedoms being eroded but the talking heads spin into freedom into security. We live in a world unimaginable to the founding fathers partly because they never envisioned a nation so torn by the definitions of right and wrong.

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[thunderbolt_nick]

In the eyes of the law I totally agree with you. It's what the law is interpreted as that I have a problem with. As the law is more and more morphed into today's social and security issues instead of justice being blind it's a scary time. Look at how the story is being used by the media and politicians as scare tactics, one way or the other, in an election year. This is just a symptom of a much bigger problem that is only getting worse as the whirlpool of freedom goes downward, scaring Americans who demand more security to offset the freedoms being eroded but the talking heads spin into freedom into security. We live in a world unimaginable to the founding fathers partly because they never envisioned a nation so torn by the definitions of right and wrong.

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Absolutely. That we can both agree on. Fear mongering is no way to achieve a goal or force someone's hand. Ethics will also be a big part of this which is why I'm watching this closely. Politicians aside, the courts are the only thing keeping the balance. I'm honestly glad SOMEONE raised the question regardless of intention cause like I said in my clarification it NEEDS to be discussed no matter what side you are on.

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[xeene]

This isn't about a single iPhone.

But it is about a single iPhone. They aren't asking to unlock every iPhone or give them the tools to do it. They asking assistance in unlocking single device and then apple can do what ever it wants with "master key".

 

[thunderbolt_nick]

But it is about a single iPhone. They aren't asking to unlock every iPhone or give them the tools to do it. They asking assistance in unlocking single device and then apple can do what ever it wants with "master key".

True. We also got to remember that this might be setting a standard as well. Depending on the ruling, 'if Apple did it for this device it can do it for all' will be the mindset going forward. In my opinion, I think we need to get specific guidelines and use cases going forward if we as a society decide it's OK to retrieve data from an encrypted device. That means a lot of regulations and specific definitions.

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[UrbanBounca]

But it is about a single iPhone. They aren't asking to unlock every iPhone or give them the tools to do it. They asking assistance in unlocking single device and then apple can do what ever it wants with "master key".

You should do more research on the situation. There is evidence they are attempting to unlock that iPhone, along with 11 more iPhones.

Again, it's not about a single iPhone. It's about getting access to every iPhone via a backdoor created by Apple. When I say every, I use that loosely. They obviously aren't going to violate every device, but it's a matter of having the ability to.

 

[thunderbolt_nick]

You should do more research on the situation. There is evidence they are attempting to unlock that iPhone, along with 11 more iPhones.

Again, it's not about a single iPhone. It's about getting access to every iPhone via a backdoor created by Apple. When I say every, I use that loosely. They obviously aren't going to violate every device, but it's a matter of having the ability to.

To add onto this. Having the ability does bring a lot of responsibility and trust in certain bodies. Not only the government, but Apple (and I'm assuming other corporations eventually) as well. My perfect world: we can one-off get specific information off a device to be used in court via a warrant without needing access to the entire device. As a techie, I know that is nearly impossible with encryption without utilizing either a backdoor or special software lessening security. Once it happens, we as a society have to prepare for what comes after. Questions like "What is deemed as probable cause before entering the device?" "Who will oversee any and all unlocks or custom software?" "Who will make sure said software is destroyed afterwards?"

Like I said, I'm glad these questions are being raised. It really needed to happen. Privacy is not so much of the concern as what should the law say, at least in this observer's opinion.

 

[dgstorm]

Here is a follow-up article on this topic from our sister site @iphoneforums.net. It is from Tim Cook's recent ABC interview in which he explains the position much more clearly. After you check out the article, be sure to watch the actual 30 minute interview with Tim Cook. It is well worth the time and was very enlightening.

Apple's Tim Cook in ABC Interview: Says iPhone Backdoor Would be 'Software Equivalent of Cancer'

 

[thunderbolt_nick]

Here is a follow-up article on this topic from our sister site @iphoneforums.net. It is from Tim Cook's recent ABC interview in which he explains the position much more clearly. After you check out the article, be sure to watch the actual 30 minute interview with Tim Cook. It is well worth the time and was very enlightening.

Apple's Tim Cook in ABC Interview: Says iPhone Backdoor Would be 'Software Equivalent of Cancer'

I've seen this interview. I just completely forgot about it while I was house-hunting. He reiterates what the technical challenges are to unlocking one phone and he has a really good point. These are the points he needs to bring up in court: it is an undue burden to create this software and have oversight for it AND keep a citizen's general right to privacy. It's not that he doesn't necessarily want to do it and he even mentions that it's not about a distrust in government with that key, it's just it's very, very difficult. I think he's overreaching a lot to assume what the court will do with the slippery slope argument, but again it's points that need to be raised.

EDIT: I love how the blurb every news outlet is reporting isn't even the most important part. What he says after is more important.

 

[xeene]

You should do more research on the situation. There is evidence they are attempting to unlock that iPhone, along with 11 more iPhones.

Again, it's not about a single iPhone. It's about getting access to every iPhone via a backdoor created by Apple. When I say every, I use that loosely. They obviously aren't going to violate every device, but it's a matter of having the ability to.

There are cases in China, Russia and other countries that want unlock from Apple. We aren't talking about them, we are discussing this one instance where the phone is a terrorist's accessory and fbi has every right to demand assistance from its manufacturer.

 

[tech_head]

They do not have the authority to demand that a company invent a way that to open the phone. They only have authority to demand what exists. The government has authority not rights. We have rights.

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