Tim Cook Email Explains Why Apple Won't Help Hack Shooter's iPhone

[tech_head]

Seriously?

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What do you mean? Anytime the government suspends rights of citizens, be afraid. No fly lists, etc. Yeah, I don't trust the government. From the lie that we support democracy while we prop up dictators. From the surveillance of civil rights activists, to the sterilization of the mentally ill and handicapped, to human experimentation all those things mean they cannot be trusted."Power corrupts. absolute power, absolutely corrupts. "

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[Sajo]

... No fly lists, etc...

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You are joking about that...right? Please tell me that was just a joke?

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[tech_head]

You are joking about that...right? Please tell me that was just a joke?

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You must not study history.
No fly lists are secret and you have no way of knowing you are on one until you try to fly. The patriot act allowed broad unchecked powers by the FBI and NSA.

Do you trust everything the government does?
Like I said the US supports democracy only when is suits us. Here is but a small list of the dictators that we supported, until we didn't - Papa Doc Duvalier in Haiti, The Shah of Iran, Khadafi, Saddam Hussein and a host of dictators when it suit us. Bad deeds?
Rendition by the CIA. Mkultra Experiments. Cointelpro and the FBI. Central American policy decided by Dole and other corporate interests in the 50's and 60's. Oil companies dictating foreign policy in the middle east. Concentration camps for the Japanese.

America has a host of bad deeds done to it's citizens and others abroad.

I don't thust the motives of my government one bit when it comes to my privacy and giving up civil liberties for "security".

You keep blindly trusting the government if you like. I know enough history to know better.

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[pc747]

I'm not going to go as far as not trusting the government. I mean there was a time when people were arguing the rights for the federal government to override the state during the times of desegregation. For myself I am not OK with wait until the state decide. There are times when the government needs to step in. I'm not pro or anti one way or another. And had this been just the topic of just that one phone then I would be on the side of the government. My issue is that it is not just that one phone and we know the many law decisions are made by past precedents and judgements. By opening the door to the government requiring software to unlock 15 phones now I fear this could go further.

I heard someone say the people can reign in this issue, but that is where I have to say that by opening the door now it would take a bunch of innocent people getting their rights violated and it finally making it's way across affecting the people on the right side of the track before we "the people" get involved.

If a cop said they used this procedure during a random stop on some punk wearing a hoodie then people would assume the cop was in the right. It is when you or your kid is being called the punk in a hoodie, because you just drove home from the gym or practice, that you realize this is getting out of control. This is why I am afraid of this, not because of one iPhone or even if they said we have the iPhones of these five proven terrorists. The issue is that unless we stop it at saying only those and never again, then we are opening up ourselves to problems in the future. Especially since they are creating an update that involves every iPhone. Yeah why would that be a problem (sarcasm), you don't think some smart hacker with an ax to grind could capture that and use it?

Good discussion and definitely something that we need to have no matter what the opinion. Just remember to respect each other's opinions regardless whether you agree or not. Nothing wrong with a respectful debate, just do not get disrespectful on here.

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[pc747]

By the way I think this may be the first topic where we (some of us) agreed with the CEO of Apple. This is scary man..... very scary.

After this die down we may need to open a topic to right the path. Something like "Do you agree with Tim Cook that the iPhone us the only smartphone to buy?"

That way we can re-excercise our aggression towards the fruit. I mean this is like Batman taking up with the Joker, Superman and Lex Luthor, niners hanging out with raider fan, cats and dogs, it's just not right. [emoji12]

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[mountainbikermark]

By the way I think this may be the first topic where we (some of us) agreed with the CEO of Apple. This is scary man..... very scary.

After this die down we may need to open a topic to right the path. Something like "Do you agree with Tim Cook that the iPhone us the only smartphone to buy?"

That way we can re-excercise our aggression towards the fruit. I mean this is like Batman taking up with the Joker, Superman and Lex Luthor, niners hanging out with raider fan, cats and dogs, it's just not right. [emoji12]

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Dogs rule. Cats are merely a weapon of the ancient Egyptians to take over the world. Muhaha! Don't believe me? Dig out the old movie "Cats and Dogs". It's a conspiracy from BC days

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[cr6]

This thread has been skating that fine line breaking our rule of "no political discussions", but obviously it's more tech related and that's why we've allowed it to continue. Personally I don't trust anything the government does but that's just me. They've been over stepping their bounds for decades and "we the people" have continued to let it happen because in reality, we're too lazy to be bothered to stand up for our rights, but I digress.
That said, I believe we should all remember to keep this on topic with the Tim Cook privacy story. I understand it's all intertwined, but let's at least try to stay on topic without letting the discussion veer into other political issues like no fly lists or other govt programs.

 

[mountainbikermark]

This thread has been skating that fine line breaking our rule of "no political discussions", but obviously it's more tech related and that's why we've allowed it to continue. Personally I don't trust anything the government does but that's just me. They've been over stepping their bounds for decades and "we the people" have continued to let it happen because in reality, we're too lazy to be bothered to stand up for our rights, but I digress.
That said, I believe we should all remember to keep this on topic with the Tim Cook privacy story. I understand it's all intertwined, but let's at least try to stay on topic without letting the discussion veer into other political issues like no fly lists or other govt programs.

No fly lists and stuff are why this thread exists. If not for past abuses nobody would be blinking an eye about this story except for tin hatters that watch too many episodes of the X Files. It's not new though, abuses in the name of security go way back, Japanese internment camps just to name 1. What Tim Cook is saying is he will not allow something that could be used to repeat the past. I believe he's doing it more for Benjamins than principle though, again due to the past.

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[pc747]

No fly lists and stuff are why this thread exists. If not for past abuses nobody would be blinking an eye about this story except for tin hatters that watch too many episodes of the X Files. It's not new though, abuses in the name of security go way back, Japanese internment camps just to name 1. What Tim Cook is saying is he will not allow something that could be used to repeat the past. I believe he's doing it more for Benjamins than principle though, again due to the past.

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You are so right.

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[pc747]

This thread has been skating that fine line breaking our rule of "no political discussions", but obviously it's more tech related and that's why we've allowed it to continue. Personally I don't trust anything the government does but that's just me. They've been over stepping their bounds for decades and "we the people" have continued to let it happen because in reality, we're too lazy to be bothered to stand up for our rights, but I digress.
That said, I believe we should all remember to keep this on topic with the Tim Cook privacy story. I understand it's all intertwined, but let's at least try to stay on topic without letting the discussion veer into other political issues like no fly lists or other govt programs.

Yeah this topic is on the line and I will say the people in this thread has handled it well. I don't think (actually I know) this topic could have been posted a few years back. The reason this topic is able to go has been the maturity of our members.

With that said, unfortunately this topic can not be had without edging on politics. As MB said, the reason this is a hot topic is because of the failings in the past. If people are throwing out political names, candidates, or parties then that is a no go. I even understand your point about policies because things like no fly lists and patriot act are policies, and we have to be careful with that as that could easily turn into something we do not want (something that I agree with you about).

So I'll be watching y'all in this thread (pointing to everyone in this thread). OK I know I need to be watched as well lol because I know I been ice skating.



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[xeene]

See this is why I love this country so much. Everyone thinks our government is horrible, corrupt, liars and so forth. Yet most have never lived under any other government like dictatorial, communistic or authoritarian.
I'm not going to lie, I'll be first to say it isn't perfect, has its dark side to it and wrecks hell all over the world. But the best thing is that people decide when it's overstepping it's boundaries and can change it unlike in some other countries where most here would be either exiled or executed. Viva la freedom!

 

[mountainbikermark]

See this is why I love this country so much. Everyone thinks our government is horrible, corrupt, liars and so forth. Yet most have never lived under any other government like dictatorial, communistic or authoritarian.
I'm not going to lie, I'll be first to say it isn't perfect, has its dark side to it and wrecks hell all over the world. But the best thing is that people decide when it's overstepping it's boundaries and can change it unlike in some other countries where most here would be either exiled or executed. Viva la freedom!

We have the greatest weapon on earth. The power to vote. It is greater than the power of the wallet and even stronger than our military. We can use the power of the wallet to show how we agree or disagree with Mr Cooks stance, our military ensures our freedom to do so but it is the vote that makes it all possible. This might seem like a political statement and I apologize if it comes across that way as it's meant more to say it is the back bone of why Apple can say no to the federal government and voting is the greatest way to ensure that the fears asserted here never come to fruition again.

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[cr6]

You've got a lot to learn if you think we live in a "free society". According to the ACLU:
With only 5% of the world’s population, the U.S. has 25% of the world’s prison population – that makes us the world’s largest jailer. (Even though crime is at an all time low)
From 1978 to 2014, our prison population has risen over 400%.
One in 110 adults are incarcerated in a prison or local jails in the U.S. This marks the highest rate of imprisonment in American history.
One in 35 adults are under some form of correctional control, counting prison, jail, parole and probation populations.
In America, our criminal justice system should keep communities safe and treat people fairly, regardless of the color of their skin or the size of their bank account in order for our system to do a good job, it must be cost-effective by using our taxpayer dollars and public resources wisely, in an evidence-based rather than fear-based manner.
But our criminal justice system is not doing a good job. It has failed on every count: public safety, fairness and cost-effectiveness. Once the prison system was privatized, it's been turned into big business with the goal of prosecuting and keeping people in prison for minor offenses.
Even before 9/11, but moreso after, laws have been passed (without the approval of congress) that can keep and detain anyone indefinitely, all in the name of national security, and if you actually look into your so called "freedoms", you'd see we don't really have many left.
Corrections Corporation of America has seen it's profits rise over 500% over the past 2 decades. Keeping Americans incarcerated is big business, and it's only going to get worse.
Privacy concerns are but a small piece of the puzzle that is wrong with this country. Stop believing everything you hear on the news and start doing your own research.

 

[tech_head]

Exactly. We need to fear both the military industrial complex and the new prison industrial complex. The war on drugs has fed the latter and the funny thing is both the cartels and the police and prison guard unions have a vested interest in nothing changing. As always follow the money.

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[xeene]

You've got a lot to learn if you think we live in a "free society".

Where I came from you didn't have a freedom to chose what you ate, what you wore, what you watched on TV, where you went to school, which religion you believed in, which vehicle you drove(owning one was a privilege itself). Vote for government officers? That was a fantasy. Speak against government? Better make sure your neighbors do t hear you or you get turned in. Owning a business? Ha! Better wake up and smell the ashes!
Like I said, most Americans take their freedoms for granted.