Verizon Communications Reports a Dozen Cases of Sabotage as Workers Continue Strike

[sdny8]

Most people that complain and are pro-union are low level workers that do not have an education, and think that they are entitled.

Get a good degree and you don't have to worry about it.


Actually the workers are generally highly trained and extremely knowledgable. Shooting troubles is as much a art as it is science. It takes a certain degree of knowledge and even more practice
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[skennelly]

IMO, unions = organized crime. Intelligent/hard workers don't need a union. They will get paid what they are worth. Piss poor workers need the union to save their job. The education system is a great example.

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[nikecar]

The truth of the matter is that we are experiencing an income disparity that is growing at an alarming rate. Are some unions corrupt? Sure. But almost all corporations have the sole responsibility to enrich their shareholders, often with no regard for the human capital that powers them. As the middle class in the United States disappears, the few that hold the power and riches benefit. Unions are one way of maintaining some semblance of balance between workers and management.

Don't forget local governments that think cell service is a right and is offering federal money to give millions free phones. Philly, I'm talking to you.

Unions have a time and a place, but too many want the gravy train to keep rolling.

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[Immolate]

PS. No union would ever encourage sabotage. No one can be sure who did it. I've seen a lot of damaged facilities due to various reasons. With the price of copper what it is, its possible the person was looking to sell the scrap. Sabotage is also less likey because putting together about a 600 PR pic cable is actually a relatively easy fix

Wisconsin teacher's union, June/July 2011. 'nuff said.

Public employee unions should again be made illegal. Private unions I am content to watch drown in their own irrelevance. The only union that should exist is one that finds a symbiosis with its host.

 

[Dusty]

These union guys should just go chill with their Chrysler UAW counterparts and enjoy being on strike. Beats vandalizing Verizon property.

This,

And for the prounion guy... if you or your dad had any skills you could have found a job. Maybe you lived it up a little much and bought more than you could afford.

I know there might not have been a job where you were, but you dang sure could have moved and found something.

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Really... if I had skills I could have found a job? I was 10 years old when that happened.

Maybe we lived it up? Wow. Do you even think before you type?
That's a totally ignorant comment pulled from your hindquarters.

For the record, I've never been a part of a union and do quite well for myself. I owe a good portion of who I am today to that man with "no skills" who gave everything a man could give to give to me and my sister so that we could have a better future. I'd say more but it would just be edited beyond recognition by the mods.

 

[cobjones]

These union guys should just go chill with their Chrysler UAW counterparts and enjoy being on strike. Beats vandalizing Verizon property.

This,

And for the prounion guy... if you or your dad had any skills you could have found a job. Maybe you lived it up a little much and bought more than you could afford.

I know there might not have been a job where you were, but you dang sure could have moved and found something.

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Really... if I had skills I could have found a job? I was 10 years old when that happened.

Maybe we lived it up? Wow. Do you even think before you type?
That's a totally ignorant comment pulled from your hindquarters.

For the record, I've never been a part of a union and do quite well for myself. I owe a good portion of who I am today to that man with "no skills" who gave everything a man could give to give to me and my sister so that we could have a better future. I'd say more but it would just be edited beyond recognition by the mods.

Someone else mentioned that they got fired... don't be an a$$. I never said a 10 year old should have a job.

He probably was a great dad, but that still doesn't mean Unions are good.

A great person isn't necessarily smart or skilled. If he had skills someone would have hired him.

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[cobjones]

Most people that complain and are pro-union are low level workers that do not have an education, and think that they are entitled.

Get a good degree and you don't have to worry about it.


Actually the workers are generally highly trained and extremely knowledgable. Shooting troubles is as much a art as it is science. It takes a certain degree of knowledge and even more practice
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Call center people troubleshoot, so that defeats that arguement. They don't know anything.

And actually most union workers are low level persons that don't make any decisions. Some union members have skills, but most don't. Those that do usually can find a job if they get laid off.

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[CJM]

How did this go from sabotaging Verizon to personal attacks on people and their parents? Stay on topic and out of peoples personal lives before this thread gets closed and infractions get passed around.

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[wcjeep]

Google something like "copper theft". Theft happens daily and barely makes the local paper. Looking at the 900pr cable cut it was done by a novice.

 

[stopswitch]

Everyone who thinks anyone else's job is super easy and takes no skills needs to stop talking. Half the people on here most likely don't even know how telephones or fiber optics work or how to install them.properly.

These people sit at their computer desk typing away how little skill these people's jobs take with little knowledge of what they do. Blue collar jobs are not easy to perform despite what you've been taught in school, these jobs require strict knowledge and skills to do them.

Also where do you get off saying other people make too much. What do you care what someone else gets paid? Why do you feel the need to bring others down to your low wages and crappy benefit packages. What's wrong with people getting paid what they demand and having good benefits and retirement packages.

Now you'll say that your job is so much harder and requires so much more training that you should get paid so much more. Well go demand more then and leave others alone.

 

[creaky]

Wisconsin teacher's union, June/July 2011. 'nuff said.

Couldn't have thought of a more sterling example.

The union was willing to make concessions with the governor but he refused on what I assume are ideological grounds. He couldn't touch the police or firefighters because it was too politically risky (and it is a sad statement about our country when teachers are viewed as so dispensable). Meanwhile, tax breaks for the highest earners are kept in place. I can't think of a more pernicious plan to raise state revenue. If there was no teachers union this would have probably just slipped under the radar with the teachers having no recourse.

And to the poster who equates low education with union benefits, many teachers have higher education degrees.

 

[SquireSCA]

Nothing to do with envy. All about a fair contract for a highly profitable company thanks to my fellow union workers sweat. The new CEO gives himself a $1.3 million raise but tells the workers that times are tough. Sorry I'm going to have to cut your benefits. Enough is enough. Real workers need to stand up for their rights and demand to be given what their worth. And if big business attempts to outsource their jobs they should be taxed accordingly instead of being allowed to reap ridiculous profits from workers treated little better than slaves.

PS. No union would ever encourage sabotage. No one can be sure who did it. I've seen a lot of damaged facilities due to various reasons. With the price of copper what it is, its possible the person was looking to sell the scrap. Sabotage is also less likey because putting together about a 600 PR pic cable is actually a relatively easy fix


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I think that some of those notions are patently false... First of all, CEO's are every bit of a "Real worker" as any of you are, possibly more so. Getting where he got is often a lot harder and a lot more stress and requires far more sacrifice than turning a wrench.

Many CEO's started out with the same mundane jobs that most of us did, but they worked their asses off and moved up the food chain while we did not. More often than not, they have worked in our shoes and know what the lower end jobs are. Nobody gets out of school and gets their first job as a CEO. LOL

But how many of us have walked in their shoes? It's easy to sit here and pretend that they have it so easy and "don't really work", and that may make us feel better about our mediocre lives, but I don't believe that it is fair or accurate.

As for our "Rights and what we are worth"... Another myth... Our jobs are only worth what the lowest bidder is willing to accept for them. That holds true for every job. I may feel that... I dunno, being a pipe-fitter is worth $25 an hour, and it is a very essential job in this country. Yet if there are other qualified workers who are willing to take that job at $20 an hour, guess what? Your job isn't worth the $25 you think you are entitled to.

Of course you have to weight that cost with QUALIFIED labor, you can't pay some kid to come in at $10 and do the same quality of work, but in most cases, there is someone out there just as good as you, who is willing to take your job from you for less money or lower benefits.

This applies to ditch-diggers and CEO's alike.

 

[SquireSCA]

Wisconsin teacher's union, June/July 2011. 'nuff said.

Couldn't have thought of a more sterling example.

The union was willing to make concessions with the governor but he refused on what I assume are ideological grounds. He couldn't touch the police or firefighters because it was too politically risky (and it is a sad statement about our country when teachers are viewed as so dispensable). Meanwhile, tax breaks for the highest earners are kept in place. I can't think of a more pernicious plan to raise state revenue. If there was no teachers union this would have probably just slipped under the radar with the teachers having no recourse.

And to the poster who equates low education with union benefits, many teachers have higher education degrees.

Teacher's Unions have their own issues. They protect crappy teachers from getting fired. I read a news article recently that in the past 10 years, the state of NJ has only fired like a handful of teachers for poor performance. Really? 10 years in a densely populated state like NJ and you only fired 23 teachers or whatever?

They are often against standardized tests, or having the teachers evaluations based on the performance of their kids test scores. Why not?

If I am in sales, I am graded by a quota which is determined by how many of my customers buy from me. If I had the Teacher's Union behind me, I could claim that it is ok that I am at 27% of quote because it isn't my fault that the customers are not buying....

It defies logic. Not that there are not a couple good things in Unions these days, but on average, they hurt more than they help.

When I was in the IBEW, I was working in a factory in NJ doing valve assembly work one summer. They hired me on as full time and I got 2 promotions in 90 days, with raises. Then I became a Union member(by force, it is mandated that everyone in the plant must join the union and pay dues, office employees had a choice if they wanted to join...).

I never got anything from them but a payroll deduction. And as I worked on my next promotion and was moving from assembly to the electrical department and QC and Testing, I have several union workers approach me because they were pissed that I was getting into jobs that they had wanted for years. I had people telling me to slow down, take it easy, I am in the Union now and they can't fire me, etc...

I was blown away, and thinking, this is why you are sitting in the same chair assembling the same valves for 4 years and wishing you could get promoted.

The Unions attract, and encourage that kind of behavior, and it wasn't isolated incidents, it was blatent and rampant.

When they decided to go on strike and handed me the schedule to picket, I said I would not be joining them. They looked flummoxed and asked why. I said that the company was offering a 3% raise, you are fighting for 5%. So I am going to lose a few week's pay for 2% of $7.05 an hour, part of which will go to Union dues... So if I lose just 2 weeks of pay, I will have to work the entire year just to make up for that loss, and what if the company caves and gives that raise, and then 6 months from now lays 10 people off to cover that cost and I or one of my friends is one of the 10?

They told me that I had a poor union attitude. Not that I was wrong, not that what I said didn't have merit or make sense, but that my actions were not in the best interests of the UNION.

Because that was all that it was about. The union looking after itself under the guise of helping the "little guy", even if it meant that we would actually lose money in the long run, or possibly be laid off...

I gave him my notice and walked out the door and had a much better job in 3 days for almost double the money, better benefits(without a union), etc...

 

[ecsnead69]

Unions are only in it for themselves. Several years ago I will admit that they were needed, but nowadays, with all the equal rights lawyers and ambulance chasers out there, the workers are protected... unions only protect the lazy sorry asses that have seniority! Let me tell you, if you have been there 15 years and the company doesn't value you enough to keep you, guess what.... there is probably a newer guy behind you that is willing to step up and get the job done, not half ass it and hide behind the union!

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[creaky]

Teacher's Unions have their own issues. They protect crappy teachers from getting fired. I read a news article recently that in the past 10 years, the state of NJ has only fired like a handful of teachers for poor performance. Really? 10 years in a densely populated state like NJ and you only fired 23 teachers or whatever?

Of course teachers unions have their issues; any organization representing a diverse group of individuals will. Should more teachers have been fired? Maybe, but I don't know the specifics of those cases. Teachers don't get into education because it's going to be easy or a free ride on the gravy train, unionized or not. They tend to really want to make a difference at a much lower wage than folks at their same level of education and experience make in other fields.

They are often against standardized tests, or having the teachers evaluations based on the performance of their kids test scores. Why not?

The reason they are against standardized tests is because it forces teachers to "teach to the test" - rote learning in a one-size-fits-all box. This distorts curricula and removes any possibility for tailored learning based on the students' actual needs. Further, reward-based funding based on test scores is skewed away from the schools that need money most, because they are operating at a financial disadvantage to begin with.