Verizon Drops The Axe! Will Disconnect Unlimited Data Users Using Extraordinary Amounts Of Data!

[FoxKat]

Which proves his point. Unlimited would never end, by its very definition.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[kodiak799]

Which proves his point. Unlimited would never end, by its very definition.

Unlimited....subject to the TOS. Always been that way, and entirely common and accepted practice.

Within the parameters specified by the TOS, data and usage is, and has been, unlimited.

 

[FoxKat]

Unlimited....subject to the TOS. Always been that way, and entirely common and accepted practice.

Within the parameters specified by the TOS, data and usage is, and has been, unlimited.

Agreed, but some try to take unlimited (within the parameters of the TOS), and want to turn it into unlimited (with no restrictions whatsoever and for eternity). This is what I meant when I said it never has truly been an "unlimited" data plan since the TOS spells out what circumstances real LIMITS, including complete termination exist, including excessive use. This by its very nature proves it's not, nor was it ever truly unlimited.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[jackiescivic]

So this is how I feel. If you're not happy about what they are doing, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Verizon won't miss you. People are switching to them every day because they are the #1 nationwide carrier. Unfortunately, this title affords them the ability to do what they do. You know AT&T won't be far behind, and then TMO and Sprint will offer crazy deals for people switching.

FWIW, I had unlimited data, but I was still connecting to wifi because at the house I lived, I was lucky to have 1-2 bars of service. Averaged 2gb/month, not including wifi. Before I went to Android, I was using .03 on average (thanks BlackBerry lol). I was "forced" off unlimited 3 years ago when I wanted to upgrade my dealer line to one of the new Droids. I went to a 4gb plan and was still under that monthly. My usage has definitely increased, and I now have 10gb/month but still only use 5-6, at most. I have absolutely no need for unlimited. In my case, I was overpaying Verizon by keeping it. I know that's not the case for everyone.
What I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't be surprised that Verizon is finally cracking down. It's been a long time coming, and if you're not happy, the door is open and there are plenty of other carriers available (for most of us).

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[bkdodger]

Good morning folks ...It's always a spirited thread with these unlimited changes that's for sure ...as Mustang mentioned I'm on T-mobile with their unlimited plan ...over 22GB you can see reduced speeds and I'm allowed 14GB of hotspot I believe ...Verizon has already made the first step towards no charge but throttling past your allowance ...I think peeps get more upset at the Big Red the way they go about it ...they are at the current market as other carriers or at least close .



6S PLUS [emoji390]

 

[cr6]

I just find it amusing how judgmental people get when they find out someone uses more than 50gig of data a month on their UDP. Personally I've never felt "entitled" to keep my UD, and if I lose it I lose it....nothing lasts forever. But in the meantime I'm going to use it as I see fit, not because someone on the interwebz wants to argue semantics over what I should or shouldn't be doing. I'm sure there isn't a member on this forum that hasn't driven over the speed limit or worn their seat belt every day of their life, yet they seem to be the first ones to cast stones... and why folks are being looked down upon for wanting to do whatever they can to keep their plan "as is", is beyond me....I mean really, who cares? If people want to start an online petition, write their congressman, or picket on the White House lawn so be it. More power to them I say! After all, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil.
Glass houses folks, glass houses....just sayin. [emoji6]

S5 tap'n

 

[Mustang02]

The white House??? You're killing me.

 

[tech_head]

Agreed, but some try to take unlimited (within the parameters of the TOS), and want to turn it into unlimited (with no restrictions whatsoever and for eternity). This is what I meant when I said it never has truly been an "unlimited" data plan since the TOS spells out what circumstances real LIMITS, including complete termination exist, including excessive use. This by its very nature proves it's not, nor was it ever truly unlimited.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Point being this.
First someone at beyond 100GB did not necessarily violate the TOS.
If that person streamed 4GB a day on Amazon prime in the middle of the night on their phone and consumed a total of 120GB how is that a violation of the TOS?

It is up to Verizon to prove that you violated the TOS and not you to prove you did not.
Proving a negative is very difficult if not impossible.

So while some may have violated the TOS, not all have.
If you read on Howard Forums some people with rural LTE were disconnected for going over 100GB on what was sold as rural LTE where no other options are available. Now they reversed the stance but that just goes to show, it's not about violating the TOS.

The assumption that because you use lots of data is a violation of the TOS is a specious stance.
So once again, I encourage anyone that got the letter to notify the AG in their state along with the FCC for a violation of Block-C and the FTC.

It has nothing to do with the network quality and if it does, they need to prove it.
Verizon needs to prove you violated the TOS and just being over 100GB is not a violation of the TOS when on the bill it says "UNLIMITED".

So yes, they can protect their network if you are running a tethered torrent server.
They can protect it if you are using your phone for your whole house internet with multiple people sharing.

But in those cases they need to prove that you are doing something that violates the TOS.
Also everyone on unlimited data is not off contact. I don't know if any of the people getting the letter are still under contract or not. But let's not make the assumption that everyone on unlimited is month to month. I have four lines of unlimited data under contract until Nov 2017.

 

[cr6]

The white House??? You're killing me.

LOL! It sounded good at the time! [emoji23]

S5 tap'n

 

[kodiak799]

This is what I meant when I said it never has truly been an "unlimited" data plan since the TOS spells out what circumstances real LIMITS, including complete termination exist, including excessive use. This by its very nature proves it's not, nor was it ever truly unlimited.

Yes, but legally speaking in terms of marketing/representation, it is perfectly acceptable to say "unlimited"...subject to the fine print, and always read the fine print.

You have unlimited data. It's your service or service area that is limited.

 

[kodiak799]

Point being this.
First someone at beyond 100GB did not necessarily violate the TOS.

Yes they did, because VZW gives themselves wide latitude to make that determination. It's very common for contracts to contain such "out" clauses for unknown contigencies that could not be codified or predicted, but mainly because they don't want to list dozens or hundreds of reasons that might lead them to terminate your service (such as downloading torrents all day).

 

[FoxKat]

Point being this.
First someone at beyond 100GB did not necessarily violate the TOS.
If that person streamed 4GB a day on Amazon prime in the middle of the night on their phone and consumed a total of 120GB how is that a violation of the TOS?

In early 2000, the Ericsson R380 was released by Ericsson Mobile Communications,[15] and was the first device marketed as a "smartphone".[16]. That was 16 years ago. Then came other browser capable smartphones from Palm, HTC, Nokia, Motorola and Blackberry to name a few in the early 2000s, they were but a shell of today's phones. True multi-touch smartphones as we know them today weren't introduced until January of 2007 with the release of the iPhone. In October 2008, the first phone to use Android called the HTC Dream (also known as the T-Mobile G1) was released.[29][30] (source: Smartphone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Even those newer phones couldn't stream data at a fraction of what ours can do today.

The ability to stream 4GB/day wasn't even on the radar screen when the Unlimited Data plan feature was introduced. The system was neither designed for it, nor could it handle it. In fact, 4G wasn't even yet rolled out, so what you could stream was MUCH slower and so users were FAR LESS likely to stream inordinate amounts of data.

3G was first launched on Monday January 28, 2002 in limited areas, and nationwide on January 7, 2004 (Verizon Wireless Announces Roll Out of National 3G Network). 4G wasn't launched until 2010. One of Verizon's earliest smartphone unlimited data plans I could find was announced for the Syracuse, NY area coinciding with the completion of the roll-out of 3G throughout upstate NY on July 2, 2002:

News Release
Verizon Wireless Launching New High-Speed 3G Wireless Network In Syracuse, New York Area
Express NetworkSM to Provide High-Speed Wireless Data Access in Upstate New York and Nationwide
June 27, 2002

SYRACUSE, NY — Starting Tuesday, July 2, Verizon Wireless customers in the Syracuse, Utica, Watertown, Ithaca, Auburn, Canton and Potsdam areas will be able to reap the rewards of a significantly faster, more robust wireless experience with the company's commercial launch of its 1XRTT network. Express Network - the first deployment of 3G technology by a wireless company in Central New York - will enhance all levels of wireless communications - from a simple voice call, to full Internet browsing, and email. This high-speed network also supports enterprise applications, giving companies with mobile employees tools for increased productivity and efficiency.

Business customers and individual consumers using Express Network can expect high-speed wireless data and robust Internet access at average speeds between 40 and 60 kbps, with bursts up to 144 kbps - similar to or better than speeds users experience when dialing in from their home PC.

Verizon Wireless recently announced a flat-rate pricing plan for data-hungry customers. For $99.99 per month with some restrictions, subscribers can download unlimited data on the Express Network. Customers can also sign up for time-based usage plans, which begin at $35 monthly access for 150 minutes of connection and may be used for either voice or data calls, and $55 and $75 monthly access plans include 400 and 600 minutes respectively. Verizon Wireless offers enterprise customers pricing based on megabyte usage with rate plans starting at $35 monthly access for 10 MB, $55 monthly access for 20 MB, and $75 monthly access for 40 MB of data sent and received on the Express Network.

Source: Verizon Wireless Launching New High-Speed 3G Wireless Network In Syracuse, New York Area​

That's right...$3.50 per MB at the 10MB pricing, $75 for 40MB, $99 per month for "unlimited" (I saw mentioned somewhere was first defined as 1.5GB/month), and for speeds of averaging 40 to 60 kbps. Today we're seeing average speeds approaching or exceeding 40+ Mbps which is 1000 times faster than that.

The Nationwide Calling Plan with Unlimited Data (the one I have), was first introduced in Q4 of 2007, and revised in the end of Q3 in 2009 when 3G was still the only and fastest option. Looking at what the choices were I have to laugh at anyone who complains about 100GB as a limit for Unlimited Data. When these plans were created there wasn't anything compared to what we're talking about now.

Q3 2007 introduction of Nationwide Calling Plans with Unlimited Data as an option:

"The main difference with the new Nationwide calling plans is that Mobile Web is now included in with the price of all plans. However, when using Mobile Web on "Basic" and "Select" plans, you will be billed $1.99 per MB, instead of it using your plan minutes. Also, downloading through Get-it-Now will be billed as using data in addition to the price of the download. The only options not to be billed per MB is to add the $15 "VCast VPack" or $25 "VCast Mobile TV Select", which includes unlimited data usage, or select a "Premium" calling plan.
"

Source: Verizon's Nationwide Calling & Data Plans​

So the Unlimited plan was either $15/month or $25/month on top of the Nationwide Calling Plan pricing. There was no mention of what amount of data defined "unlimited data" in that plan.

Then two years later in Q3 2009 they revamped the pricing and in that repricing, there is finally a clear indication of what they defined as "unlimited data".

Q4 introduction of 'mandatory' data plans;

"Verizon Wireless introduces ‘mandatory’ data plans for customers using what they define as “enhanced multimedia phones.”​

Going forward, phones that meet these four qualifications will be defined as such:

Enhanced Multimedia Phone
​

1. “Enhanced” HTML Browser
2. REV A
3. Launched on of after September 8, 2009
4. QWERTY keyboard

The first phone to achieve this distinction is the Samsung Rogue, due for release on September 9th.

Customers who try to purchase this, or other phones that “qualify” for this status will be required to choose either a service plan that already bundles “unlimited data” (defined as 5GB per month), or choose from one of these mandatory add-on plans:

A-la-carte data – No usage allowance — $1.99/megabyte
25 megabytes per month — $9.99/month
75 megabytes per month — $19.99/month

The one option not available to customers is a block on all data services, to prevent any billing at any of these prices.​

Source: Can You Pay Me Now? Verizon Wireless "Refreshes" Pricing: Mandates Pricey Paltry Data Plans for "Enhanced Multimedia Phones" •"​

Yes, those tiered plans are measured in "Megabytes per month", not Gigabytes... A-la-carte was $1.99 per megabyte. Imagine that...at that rate, today's 100GB would cost $199,000 per month ($223,581.77 in 2016 dollars)! OMG! Even the top tiered data plan was only 75 megabytes for $19.99. In comparison a pricing tier for 100GB/month would cost $1,333 per month, and those are in 2009 dollars ($1,497.66 in 2016 dollars).

Notice that "unlimited data" on this plan was now defined as 5GB per month then, NOT "well in excess of 100GB per month" as those who are getting the boot now. By today's standards, 100GB is 20 times the defined amount above.

It's now 2016, 9 years after UDP started. Things change, and what was an expected reasonable maximum amount of data consumption per month back then is today ONE quick low resolution YouTube video. We didn't have most of the streaming services that we do today and what was there wasn't embraced by most on their phones. The cellular world has essentially outgrown the plan, even with its many iterations and enhancements.

We've had a good ride, and for those who used the UDP aggressively you've got nothing to complain about. For the rest of us with UDP, we too should keep things in perspective. Verizon's UDP is still the only UDP without throttling, AFAIK.

 

[cr6]

We've had a good ride, and for those who used the UDP aggressively you've got nothing to complain about. For the rest of us with UDP, we too should keep things in perspective. Verizon's UDP is still the only UDP without throttling, AFAIK.

[emoji106] absolutely!
It was fun while it lasted.

S5 tap'n

 

[tech_head]

You can post original flyers from way back when but Verizon had no issue with 100GB+ six months ago or year ago. Even right now they sell a 100GB plan, so what they sold in 2009 is a specious argument. They could have at any point not renewed "UNLIMITED" contracts at any point.
I'm still under contract and I have a 4G LTE phone and my bill says "UNLIMITED".
If that is not what they meant, they should have removed people with 4G phones or capped data rates on those phones with at the start. They did not.

Yes, they can do what they need to protect their network, but this isn't about network protection. This is about a business model they they got stuck with that is no longer profitable. Let's call it what it is. When it was profitable; when it was hard to consume date; they forced expensive data plans. Now that they can easier monetize a pay for bytescheme, they want to force everyone to move to a pay as you go plan.

I asked for that years ago because I couldn't consume data and they gave a resounding "NO".

The FCC came in a year ago and told them they could not throttle "UNLIMITED".
We'll see if the FCC, FTC or AG's of various states take a stance on this.

We'll need to agree to disagree on the policy they have implemented because IMHO it's plan wrong and a money grab.

I encourage anyone that get's the letter to forward it to the FTC, FCC and your AG.
If your bill says "UNLIMITED" and they kick you off for using data then they have an issue with false advertising. Verizon is wrong on this one, plain and simple.

If have no problem with them discontinuing plans.
I do have an issue with them selectively discontinuing plans so they can stick it to people.
Discontinue *ALL* legacy plans and treat all customers equally.
I'll give up my data plan if they force everyone off all the old plans.
But that will cause churn and they don't want that. They want to surgically remove people that don't fit their model. They need to prove that you were harming their network. It is impossible to prove you are not. The only way to do that is don't use the phone.

So right now our argument is circular because some people believe that Verizon is right and can do whatever they want. I disagree with that premise knowing what I know about the FCC, FTC and working for a "Baby Bell" for many years.

Let's see what happens as the complaints hit the FCC and others.

Once again I urge people to complain to the FCC, FTC and AG of their states.

 

[FoxKat]

I worked for "Baby Bell" too, actually as a Bell Atlantic Mobile representative when I signed myself up for the UDP and issued myself 4 consecutive phone numbers, each ending in 000, 100, 200, & 300. So I had the personal experience of understanding the system from the other side. I did everything from installing car phones to programming phones for activation and selling them, to selling fleet phone plans, to selling data packages.

What I know is that if a contract has an escape clause, a company can exercise that clause "with discretion" on any contract-holder they wish. The only exceptions are when the FCC, FTC and AG, as well as other consumer watchdog organizations get involved and take it to court.

I agree that if people want to try to keep their plan active they do have potential recourse through those agencies and such, but it's an uphill climb. But then most things in life that have the greatest value come on the heels of hard work.