P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[DARTH MAXIMUS]

Posted reply in wrong spot in u see it. By jumpin ship I meant getting off the hacking wagon.already back to stock

 

[bplewis24]

I say to the people who don't believe it's going to happen, don't think it's possible, or just think P3Droid is someone on the internet to go forward and keep rooting. Somebody is going to be right and someone's going to be wrong

I'll remind you that I stated, and am stating now, that I will take everything P3Droid said he heard and was told at face value. But here is the important and pertinent part: that does not mean that his speculation about what is going to happen is correct.

You have to separate the third-hand factual information from the opinionated speculation.

Third-hand alleged facts:
Hacking would become tougher.
Bootloaders would be encrypted by Motorola.
More manufacturers would lock Bootloaders.
Security features in ROMs allow tracking various violations of ToS and implement throttling.
OTA Update Push confirmation mechanism.

Opionated Conjecture: (and I will quote)

So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.

He even implies himself that each person can try to determine what this means for our futures and he gives his own version. That does not mean that his version is correct or accurate. It is pure conjecture.

Look, this doom and gloom scenario that we are discussing needs to be put into the proper perspective. Some here have already done a good job of doing so. But consider this: all of the aspects of his doom and gloom scenario have already happened. Think about that again...they already throttled, already detected who was rooting and who wasn't, and already inserted these security features into ROMs currently running on phones.

So, since everything is already in place, what we are to believe is that they are simply waiting to throw the kill-switch. What are they waiting for? If they have the ability to do it as you all believe, what is the incentive to wait?

Trust me, I will continue to root/ROM. I have faith in my ability to analyze the logistical, legal and financial issues that this doom-and-gloom scenario presents to a carrier like Verizon. There is only so much they can do to obtain control of devices they sell. Remember, that's what this is about: control. Not functionality, control.

If the day comes that they throw the kill switch and have full control over our devices to the point that the root/ROM community entirely dissolves, I will come back to this thread and eat crow. Until then, I'll put just slightly more worry into my device one day failing to work and my contract being terminated as I will into aliens landing in my backyard to give me an anal probe.

Brandon

 

[jntdroid]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread enough, but to those questioning p3... I can understand the frustrations, but all I know is this - in the 1.5 years I've been around this community and seen his "predictions" and/or "leaks", I can't think of one instance where he was blatantly wrong... maybe not always 100% right, but mostly.

As to the vagueness of his info - keep in mind that he is probably #1 in Moto's "watch list", and in turn it's safe to assume he's also high up on that list with Verizon as well. What was it, less than a few hours after the whole Droid X .sbf thing was leaked last year that MDW received a C&D from Motorola? He has to play it extra safe or his sources could easily be figured out - it's not like you can't do a little internet research to figure out his name and all that... which I'm sure Moto has done. Therefore it would also be easy to figure out his sources if he gave any specifics at all.

Don't get me wrong, it's still frustrating b/c we crave more info, but don't bag on the guy too hard about it until we hear otherwise - we don't really have a good reason not to believe him at this point. It's not like he's the only one that's been saying this kind of thing could come down the pipe - he's just the highest profile one, and the first to give us a shred of "fact" to back up all the doomsday predictions.

 

[cuebask]

I'm just wondering if we can start to close threads that promote panic? Ever since this post, all the Android forums have become cluttered with rumors, fear and speculation. Lets get back to hacking, rooting, roms and themes. Take all these threads to imscared.com and iheardthis.org. Revive the forum!

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

 

[TheTyler0013]

I'll remind you that I stated, and am stating now, that I will take everything P3Droid said he heard and was told at face value. But here is the important and pertinent part: that does not mean that his speculation about what is going to happen is correct.

You have to separate the third-hand factual information from the opinionated speculation.

Third-hand alleged facts:
Hacking would become tougher.
Bootloaders would be encrypted by Motorola.
More manufacturers would lock Bootloaders.
Security features in ROMs allow tracking various violations of ToS and implement throttling.
OTA Update Push confirmation mechanism.

Opionated Conjecture: (and I will quote)

So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.

He even implies himself that each person can try to determine what this means for our futures and he gives his own version. That does not mean that his version is correct or accurate. It is pure conjecture.

Look, this doom and gloom scenario that we are discussing needs to be put into the proper perspective. Some here have already done a good job of doing so. But consider this: all of the aspects of his doom and gloom scenario have already happened. Think about that again...they already throttled, already detected who was rooting and who wasn't, and already inserted these security features into ROMs currently running on phones.

So, since everything is already in place, what we are to believe is that they are simply waiting to throw the kill-switch. What are they waiting for? If they have the ability to do it as you all believe, what is the incentive to wait?

Trust me, I will continue to root/ROM. I have faith in my ability to analyze the logistical, legal and financial issues that this doom-and-gloom scenario presents to a carrier like Verizon. There is only so much they can do to obtain control of devices they sell. Remember, that's what this is about: control. Not functionality, control.

If the day comes that they throw the kill switch and have full control over our devices to the point that the root/ROM community entirely dissolves, I will come back to this thread and eat crow. Until then, I'll put just slightly more worry into my device one day failing to work and my contract being terminated as I will into aliens landing in my backyard to give me an anal probe.

Brandon

I agree with you completely

I haven't been keeping up with this thread enough, but to those questioning p3... I can understand the frustrations, but all I know is this - in the 1.5 years I've been around this community and seen his "predictions" and/or "leaks", I can't think of one instance where he was blatantly wrong... maybe not always 100% right, but mostly.

As to the vagueness of his info - keep in mind that he is probably #1 in Moto's "watch list", and in turn it's safe to assume he's also high up on that list with Verizon as well. What was it, less than a few hours after the whole Droid X .sbf thing was leaked last year that MDW received a C&D from Motorola? He has to play it extra safe or his sources could easily be figured out - it's not like you can't do a little internet research to figure out his name and all that... which I'm sure Moto has done. Therefore it would also be easy to figure out his sources if he gave any specifics at all.

Don't get me wrong, it's still frustrating b/c we crave more info, but don't bag on the guy too hard about it until we hear otherwise - we don't really have a good reason not to believe him at this point. It's not like he's the only one that's been saying this kind of thing could come down the pipe - he's just the highest profile one, and the first to give us a shred of "fact" to back up all the doomsday predictions.

This is a good point, now I still want more info. He can give more info without naming sources.

Cuz with the amount of info given I will not make a huge jump on the P3 Band waggon. I will say it could or could not happen.

I can do the sme thing as P3 and say my "sources" tell me that Windows and Apple are merging and becoming one Giant Dealer Called "AppleSoft" but i can not name my sources because I will get some one fired. but you would not believe me with out evidence. But because P3 is all mighty droid man and a respected member you all believe him. What if he told you Moto Bought Dell and dell is cornering the market on electronics or something to that matter?

Personally from what i have read from him on DroidWorld he has a Statement he makes around post 220+ or so that he KNEW the GB release was a risk but it was "WORTH IT" To me he knowingly put the android community at risk. But hey its worth it right?

 

[TheTyler0013]

Read this thread (wich has been closed) and see how he acts.

Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

 

[SquireSCA]

What he fails to understand is that he's not entitled to unlimited internet for his house because he has a smartphone data plan...

What you fail to understand, intentionally it would seem, is that I never made that claim or even implied it.

I pay $70 a month for Comcast Internet.

I also pay almost $130 a month for my phone for unlimited everything, including data.

90% of my phone use, is on my Wifi. I am averaging 150mb a month on the phone's data plan, and that is including once-in-a-blue moon tethering.

So I pay for 2 unlimited internet plans, one for the cable, one for the phone. For the exceedingly rare time that I am away from home and what I need to do requires a laptop, I will tether if that is my only option, and no, I am not going to pay an extra $20 for it every month.

 

[SquireSCA]

when it comes down to it, it's just trying to be tough online or something. because, as i've said a million times before, if you were really so adamant that "it's my phone and i can do what i want" you'd be telling verizon this, and not trying to hide the fact that you're tethering. when/if these people get caught, they'll be the first ones crying over it...

You are including yourself, correct? As you admit that you both root and tether.

So I guess you are in that same boat, huh?

 

[armedmonkey]

I wish Anonymous would step in with verizonorola like they did with Sony...

 

[debdroid1a]

I don't care what the ToS says. That's the truth. I rarely if ever tether. Most of my data plan is wasted because I spend 90-95% of my time on Wifi, so I am not even getting the data that I am paying for.

I understand that VZW doesn't want me to do it, and I don't care. I worry about this as much as I worry about getting caught jay-walking. Sure, it could happen, but the chances are slim and the consequences minimal. What can they do?

VZW- "We caught you tethering 11mb of data over the past 5 months, your contract is terminated"..

Let's rewrite that...

VZW- "We caught you tethering 11mb of data over the past 5 months, so we need to charge you $20 for each of those months for the data plan. Plus a service charge. Plus late fees for each of those months. So that adds up to $200. You will need to pay it now over the phone. Would you like to do an electronic check, debit card or credit card?"

If you make some claim like you had no idea it wasn't free, or you didn't get a TOS, or the Verizon Sales Rep said you could (because they were uneducated), or you read on the internet somewhere that it was free and you belived that or whatever else claim you want to make to try to avoid paying it, they will probably stop service on your phone until you pay or you can terminate and pay the ETA.

If you're lucky you can put that total amount down a little and make monthly payments (talk nice to the CS). But doubtful.

Since we all know this is about money, they're NOT going to terminate anyone's contract. And they will make you pay.

 

[armedmonkey]

I'm actually wondering if what they are doing right now is in their original ToS. Voided warranty is one thing, but i am not sure if the tos say they can cut you off for rooting unless they can prove you're also "stealing" bandwidth with your unlimited data plan.

There are also some legality issues involved here. I don't see how they can prove that your phone failing an update means you're rooted. Are they claiming that their software is so fool proof that there can't be bugs? something like that wouldn't stand up in court if someone decided to file action.

 

[jaycemiskel]

Honestly, I'm over it now. If they crackdown, so be it. There's not really anything we can do about it, so there's no need in stressing. Just enjoy your phones..... while you still can lol.

 

[DoctorDeDroid]

I'm actually wondering if what they are doing right now is in their original ToS. Voided warranty is one thing, but i am not sure if the tos say they can cut you off for rooting unless they can prove you're also "stealing" bandwidth with your unlimited data plan.

There are also some legality issues involved here. I don't see how they can prove that your phone failing an update means you're rooted. Are they claiming that their software is so fool proof that there can't be bugs? something like that wouldn't stand up in court if someone decided to file action.

How can they prove you're rooted? Did you accept an update (eg. 2.2.2 on the d1 last month) and then reroot? Do you know exactly what's in that patch?

Sent from my Droid using DroidForums

 

[TheSwaggeR]

I wish Anonymous would step in with verizonorola like they did with Sony...

Anonymous? As in the group that backs Julian Assange? Do you know how much damage and grief Anonymous would do to Verizon and Motorola? Not only will it affect them, it will affect us as well. That whole group is a P.O.S. and one of my buddy has been ARP Poisoning a couple of them for trying to turn his computer into a "zombie" to merge with their network and increase the size of the attacks. Usually people go to a mirror'ed site to download the tools to merge their PC to the network, but unfortunately some find the need to try to trick people to download such tools.

I wouldn't want something or some group affecting the cellular network that would affect us! I would be extremely P.O. beyond belief.

 

[TheSwaggeR]

How can they prove you're rooted? Did you accept an update (eg. 2.2.2 on the d1 last month) and then reroot? Do you know exactly what's in that patch?

There is no way to know what is in the patch without updating it. That's why I stay 1 step behind the rest and allow them to test it, report about it in the forums, and show exactly what has changed and possibly patched. If it's bad, then I'll stay where I am.