P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[Taco]

Good point. But I know that Android people don't root just to get Custom ROM's. They want to remove bloatware as well. And that's what Verizon doesn't want.

I could live without custom roms, but bloatware is terrible! The ads are annoying and the lack of customization takes the fun out of Android IMO.

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[OneTenderRebel]

If this does prove true I expect VZW to give a big fat warning before taking further action.

sent from the great depths of my phones internet (thanks Al Gore)

Agreed


And just because p3 is a respected member it doesnt make him all mighty and all knowing. He can still make mistakes. Everyone here seems to worship him. Not naming names but we can tell who u are by your posts.

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It's not really about that though. He has been very spot on with many things in the past. I will always give him the benefit of the doubt. I have no reason to believe he would just say this without having some concrete proof something is going to happen.

 

[vedwed]

So I take it that you are not rooted, never rooted, never uninstalled the bloat, installed a ROM, etc?

LOL!!

Did I say I never did that, or did I say read what you sign?
2 totally different things, I am rooted, have flashed many roms, have hacked up many bloatware crappers, and am happy to do so. Here is the catch, I have never complained about people doing it, I have never bricked my phone in doing so, therefore not making a fraudulant warranty claim, as obtaining root voids your warranty, as implied in the ToS of the contract that I read before I signed. I have helped people to do the same in rooting and flashing roms.

What I said, is, if you dont read a contract you sign, you are stupid. plain and simple. point blank. How do you know what you are agreeing to if you dont read? Half of you say that VZW reps are shady, so why would you trust what they say at face value. You wouldnt so then why complain that they dont tell you everything? That is contradictory, and only more means of complaining and sounding kinda stupid while doing so.
If you do not do research before you go buy something, I dont care what it is, and you get burnt on the deal, thats your fault. We all seem to be able to know the newest news on the next new phone, we all take the time to plan what great new phone we want, how about take the time to educate yourself on the plan you need for this hone to work? Its just common sense, and to see people complain about whats in the ToS, and then say who reads that anyway is silly.

I don't care what the ToS says. That's the truth. I rarely if ever tether. Most of my data plan is wasted because I spend 90-95% of my time on Wifi, so I am not even getting the data that I am paying for.

I understand that VZW doesn't want me to do it, and I don't care. I worry about this as much as I worry about getting caught jay-walking. Sure, it could happen, but the chances are slim and the consequences minimal. What can they do?

VZW- "We caught you tethering 11mb of data over the past 5 months, your contract is terminated".

Me- "Um, ok, that's pretty ghey, but fine, I will sell my DX on eBay for $250 without a contract and go to Sprint and pay less money for a truly unlimited plan and I will come out ahead financially on both counts"

VZW- "Good, we screwed ourselves out of $1500 a year in subscriptions plus whatever upgrades you would have purchased, but it was worth it to stop that $20 profit leak".

Me- "Um, yeah, you guys are geniuses, have a great day."

So I don't care what the ToS says. If they want to term my contract and cost THEM money, so be it.

But that is not what this is about, and it never has been.

Tethering is an excuse to go after rooters, and they want to go after *ALL* rooters because they want to control the content and charge more for services by blocking your ability to get them elsewhere.

Agreed on most points except the first, Sprint is just as much a devil as VZW. I came from there after 12 years of crappy service and less delivering on what they say you get than VZW does. (Sprint was a helluva lot cheaper though, I will give em that. But I guess you get what you pay for)

Hell yes its all about the money, and as for tethering, I dont use it. I have no need for it. I am not a cheapskate looking to replace my home internet service with LTE and driving up the cost for the other customers who could care less about using tether. People want to tether fine, just dont be a jackass and make it cost the rest of us money, oh wait too late for that one...
Rooting...all for it, do it, tell all your friends to do it, tell their friends too. I could care less what people do with their phones so long as they dont cry about it when they get caught for doing something against the ToS. If you are going to break the rules, you have no legs to stand on when you get caught. So if that dont bother you, the more power to you, it doesnt bother me, I do it, I promote the freedom from bloatware, and from things people tell me I HAVE to have, but you wont hear me ***** if I get told one day I have to go back to stock or I lose my contract.

But an unignorable fact is that people that root and ruin their phones and then warranty those phones is costly to VZW, as I mentioned in another reply somewhere on these pages, big business is not about revenue loss, no matter how small the dollar amount seems to be, they dont want to lose it, and will protect themselves from present and future revenue loss by any and all means possible.

Those of us like you and I who root our phones but could care less about tether, or any of that crap pay for those of the community trying to get something for free from VZW, who care less about anything but themselves, and will just dump their contracts and run to another carrier and damned the ETF they will just not pay it. They sure showed VZW didnt they...Yep till one day when that mark on their credit gets in their way of something else more important than a phone.

 

[hookbill]

Decided to look at my data usage over the last quarter.

I am averaging 155mb a month. When I looked at my usage for the 3 months prior, it was about the same.

And that included a bit of (gasp!)... TETHERING! LOL

So yeah, I guess that with my whopping 150mb a month total usage, I was stealing from my UNLIMITED DATA plan.

hehe

Again, it's not just about tethering. There's nothing wrong with taking a 2 or 3 gb for that. Heck I don't think it's wrong if you use 8. But when you use it as your only internet supplier, that's stepping out of bounds.

Verizon doesn't want you to take the bloatware out. They probably feel that by discouraging rooting they will have less returned phones. It's just business.

 

[pc747]

I average between 1 and 2 gigs a month. The most I ever hit was 3 gigs and that was last year.

 

[TheSwaggeR]

I was reading the thread, over at where P3Droid is, and someone was calling him out and wanted more solid proof yada yada yada... looked like that flared him up so much that he is threatening that person and saying you're lucky you're not face to face with me but don't think you have immunity on the internet cause you won't soon.

Wtf? People want more solid proof. What is wrong with that? This is really starting to peeve me because either something was lost in translation, info that was misunderstood, parts of the info that could be incorrect, or something else.

I don't know this guy but from all this commotion and getting an insight about his reputation, it makes me not even want to trust the guy and I'd be more than willing to call his bluffs out too!

He also stated that VZW and Motorola aren't the culprits. It's the "industry." Whatever that means.

 

[SquireSCA]

Decided to look at my data usage over the last quarter.

I am averaging 155mb a month. When I looked at my usage for the 3 months prior, it was about the same.

And that included a bit of (gasp!)... TETHERING! LOL

So yeah, I guess that with my whopping 150mb a month total usage, I was stealing from my UNLIMITED DATA plan.

hehe

Again, it's not just about tethering. There's nothing wrong with taking a 2 or 3 gb for that. Heck I don't think it's wrong if you use 8. But when you use it as your only internet supplier, that's stepping out of bounds.

Verizon doesn't want you to take the bloatware out. They probably feel that by discouraging rooting they will have less returned phones. It's just business.

I agree. I think that tethering should be included, but if you go over a limit as a RESULT of tethering, you should pay more.

If I tether and still only use about 500mb a month, on an unlimited plan that gives me 5GB+, what is the harm? Other than a ToS violation, which every rooter is guilty of whether they tether or not, what's the big deal?

It is like the buffet, only my girlfriend and I go in together, I pay for me, and we both eat a pack of saltines. Sure, it might be against the rules, but the restaurant is making more money from me and my girlfriend because we are eating a fraction of what everyone else is eating.

So does it make sense for them to send the VZW Gestapo after me? Not really, because that will force me to eat elsewhere and then they lose my $1500 a year.

 

[Taco]

I was reading the thread, over at where P3Droid is, and someone was calling him out and wanted more solid proof yada yada yada... looked like that flared him up so much that he is threatening that person and saying you're lucky you're not face to face with me but don't think you have immunity on the internet cause you won't soon.

Wtf? People want more solid proof. What is wrong with that? This is really starting to peeve me because either something was lost in translation, info that was misunderstood, parts of the info that could be incorrect, or something else.

I don't know this guy but from all this commotion and getting an insight about his reputation, it makes me not even want to trust the guy and I'd be more than willing to call his bluffs out too!

He also stated that VZW and Motorola aren't the culprits. It's the "industry." Whatever that means.

He can't name his sources because they'll lose their jobs and then no longer be sources. Makes sense to me!

As far as the industry part: look at htc and how their bootloaders are becoming locked now. Not just moto and vzw are in on this. The wireless cellphone industry is changing ... not just a few players in the game.

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[BigMcGuire]

I was reading the thread, over at where P3Droid is, and someone was calling him out and wanted more solid proof yada yada yada... looked like that flared him up so much that he is threatening that person and saying you're lucky you're not face to face with me but don't think you have immunity on the internet cause you won't soon.

Wtf? People want more solid proof. What is wrong with that? This is really starting to peeve me because either something was lost in translation, info that was misunderstood, parts of the info that could be incorrect, or something else.

I don't know this guy but from all this commotion and getting an insight about his reputation, it makes me not even want to trust the guy and I'd be more than willing to call his bluffs out too!

He also stated that VZW and Motorola aren't the culprits. It's the "industry." Whatever that means.

Same here, I thought the world of this guy and used his kernels with my Droid 1 in 2009, 2010. But seeing all the hate (if you scroll up a few posts you'll see how he really blew his top at some DroidForum members in a Thunderbolt forum) makes me second guess. Not away to get people to champion your cause..... I think that's going to alienate more people. It has me.

 

[nerdslogic]

I am reading a lot of good points here....especially PC747 and Hookbill. And I agree this is all about money. I think tethering does have a little to do with it but I am in total agreement that most of this is about bloatware and things of that nature.

Just think....at some point here Amazon will figure out their "issue" with the market....I already have.

 

[czerdrill]

Decided to look at my data usage over the last quarter.

I am averaging 155mb a month. When I looked at my usage for the 3 months prior, it was about the same.

And that included a bit of (gasp!)... TETHERING! LOL

So yeah, I guess that with my whopping 150mb a month total usage, I was stealing from my UNLIMITED DATA plan.

hehe

Again, it's not just about tethering. There's nothing wrong with taking a 2 or 3 gb for that. Heck I don't think it's wrong if you use 8. But when you use it as your only internet supplier, that's stepping out of bounds.

Verizon doesn't want you to take the bloatware out. They probably feel that by discouraging rooting they will have less returned phones. It's just business.

I agree. I think that tethering should be included, but if you go over a limit as a RESULT of tethering, you should pay more.

If I tether and still only use about 500mb a month, on an unlimited plan that gives me 5GB+, what is the harm? Other than a ToS violation, which every rooter is guilty of whether they tether or not, what's the big deal?

It is like the buffet, only my girlfriend and I go in together, I pay for me, and we both eat a pack of saltines. Sure, it might be against the rules, but the restaurant is making more money from me and my girlfriend because we are eating a fraction of what everyone else is eating.

So does it make sense for them to send the VZW Gestapo after me? Not really, because that will force me to eat elsewhere and then they lose my $1500 a year.

Why do you keep repeating this.

 

[czerdrill]

I was reading the thread, over at where P3Droid is, and someone was calling him out and wanted more solid proof yada yada yada... looked like that flared him up so much that he is threatening that person and saying you're lucky you're not face to face with me but don't think you have immunity on the internet cause you won't soon.

Wtf? People want more solid proof. What is wrong with that? This is really starting to peeve me because either something was lost in translation, info that was misunderstood, parts of the info that could be incorrect, or something else.

I don't know this guy but from all this commotion and getting an insight about his reputation, it makes me not even want to trust the guy and I'd be more than willing to call his bluffs out too!

He also stated that VZW and Motorola aren't the culprits. It's the "industry." Whatever that means.

lol what the hell...he threatened someone? that's pretty lame. Anyway, i don't know much about the guy, but people seem to think he's a reliable source. Again, I just go with what official sources tell me. But yeah, no need for the guy to get all upset about it. he posts a wall of text and expects people to not ask questions?

 

[TheSwaggeR]

He doesn't have to NAME his source, but providing a bit more solid info, without jeopardizing the sources jobs, shouldn't be that hard to do.

If it were me, I would look at the info provided to me, from the sources, clean up as much info as I can that would point to the name or place of the sources and release it.

It's just causing too much uproar to provide us very little info and possibly causing us to point fingers in the wrong directions.

 

[czerdrill]

He doesn't have to NAME his source, but providing a bit more solid info, without jeopardizing the sources jobs, shouldn't be that hard to do.

If it were me, I would look at the info provided to me, from the sources, clean up as much info as I can that would point to the name or place of the sources and release it.

It's just causing too much uproar to provide us very little info and possibly causing us to point fingers in the wrong directions.

exactly. the subliminals are corny. just say what you know, what type of position the person told you is in, like regional manager, corporate etc. you dont have to say john smith from the 5th avenue verizon store in manhattan told me this.

it's all just a way to get hits, and that's not saying it's not true, but come on, the "i'm protecting their jobs" thing is dumb

 

[vedwed]

Again, it's not just about tethering. There's nothing wrong with taking a 2 or 3 gb for that. Heck I don't think it's wrong if you use 8. But when you use it as your only internet supplier, that's stepping out of bounds.

Verizon doesn't want you to take the bloatware out. They probably feel that by discouraging rooting they will have less returned phones. It's just business.

I agree. I think that tethering should be included, but if you go over a limit as a RESULT of tethering, you should pay more.

If I tether and still only use about 500mb a month, on an unlimited plan that gives me 5GB+, what is the harm? Other than a ToS violation, which every rooter is guilty of whether they tether or not, what's the big deal?

It is like the buffet, only my girlfriend and I go in together, I pay for me, and we both eat a pack of saltines. Sure, it might be against the rules, but the restaurant is making more money from me and my girlfriend because we are eating a fraction of what everyone else is eating.

So does it make sense for them to send the VZW Gestapo after me? Not really, because that will force me to eat elsewhere and then they lose my $1500 a year.

Why do you keep repeating this.

The big deal is you stated how you use it, and then asked why is it a big deal for all rooters, problem lies here within, just because you are responsible, does not mean every one else is, I can find you countless threads here and across the internet of people asking how to tether to their xbox/ps3/consolegamysystemofyourchoice. This goes far beyond 500 MB in one session, and while they could care less, it is costing us more through price inflation, possible tiered data packages, and in network overusage.

If you cared what the ToS said you would know that the "unlimited" data is for the device on the contract only i.e. your phone, not your laptop/pc/console. You want to SHARE the data from the device elsewhere, you pay for it, dont like it too bad because you signed a contract, weather you read it or not is not VZWs problem, or their concern.