P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[freezyfreaky]

So did you know that there was no tethering included in the unlimited data plan when you signed the contract? Or did you read the contract and signed anyways?

You are misunderstanding my point. I am perfectly aware of the limitations and restrictions imposed by the ToS and contract. I just find it hypocritical for one party to contradict their claim of "unlimited", which in my eyes, detracts from the arrangement, while the other party is subjugated to the former's conditions. We really have no room for compromise. It's an all or nothing approach that otherwise leaves the consumer empty-handed. We don't have any other viable alternatives, especially if this is becoming an industry-wide practice. My problem is out of the principle, and that alone. Is it practical for me to be so utterly rebellious as to reject every carrier out of principle? Probably not, but I dislike the direction that these companies are headed, and I also dislike some consumers' willingness to accept that. The issue of tethering is not a matter of theft; it's a lost opportunity and a breach of contract. Semantics? Perhaps, but I would seriously advise you all to step back and approach carriers' claims with skepticism. Just because they claim it's wrong, doesn't mean we should bend to their will and support their claims. Do we really have a choice? As of this time, probably not, but please refrain from the need to demonstrate some sort of claim to moral superiority. It's simply a matter of opinion. I am justifying my claims, and all that I ask is that you do the same.

You had a choice before you signed the contract. If you read the contract you would know how Verizon defined Unlimited Data Plan. If you asked Verizon if that came with tethering, I'm pretty confident that they would say no and that it would cost extra. I've never saw or heard a Verizon ad or rep say that the Unlimited Data Plan came with tethering.

 

[DyMiC]

So did you know that there was no tethering included in the unlimited data plan when you signed the contract? Or did you read the contract and signed anyways?

You are misunderstanding my point. I am perfectly aware of the limitations and restrictions imposed by the ToS and contract. I just find it hypocritical for one party to contradict their claim of "unlimited", which in my eyes, detracts from the arrangement, while the other party is subjugated to the former's conditions. We really have no room for compromise. It's an all or nothing approach that otherwise leaves the consumer empty-handed. We don't have any other viable alternatives, especially if this is becoming an industry-wide practice. My problem is out of the principle, and that alone. Is it practical for me to be so utterly rebellious as to reject every carrier out of principle? Probably not, but I dislike the direction that these companies are headed, and I also dislike some consumers' willingness to accept that. The issue of tethering is not a matter of theft; it's a lost opportunity and a breach of contract. Semantics? Perhaps, but I would seriously advise you all to step back and approach carriers' claims with skepticism. Just because they claim it's wrong, doesn't mean we should bend to their will and support their claims. Do we really have a choice? As of this time, probably not, but please refrain from the need to demonstrate some sort of claim to moral superiority. It's simply a matter of opinion. I am justifying my claims, and all that I ask is that you do the same.

In other words:

It's BULL for them to sit here and say Unlimited Data, yet you can't use it the way you want, and it really isn't unlimited, but you don't know about all this unless you read the fine print, which means they're basically falsely advertising, but their loophole is that effing contract you sign.

 

[dodgersrgood]

Haha so another tethering=food buffet thing. Its like going to an all you can eat buffet and all they have is endless buffet (unlimited data). One person eat a lot 5 trips (5gbs) and another person only makes 2 trips (2gbs). But then that person goes back and gets another bowl (1gb) and takes it home to have for lunch tomorrow (this is the tethering part.. I think). So in the end one person uses 5 trips and the other only uses 3. Now the restaurant no longer let's you take food home unless your gonna pay extra for it (them making you pay for the tethering part). That just doesn't seem fair...

Sent from my Droid using DroidForums

 

[jstafford1]

So did you know that there was no tethering included in the unlimited data plan when you signed the contract? Or did you read the contract and signed anyways?

You are misunderstanding my point. I am perfectly aware of the limitations and restrictions imposed by the ToS and contract. I just find it hypocritical for one party to contradict their claim of "unlimited", which in my eyes, detracts from the arrangement, while the other party is subjugated to the former's conditions. We really have no room for compromise. It's an all or nothing approach that otherwise leaves the consumer empty-handed. We don't have any other viable alternatives, especially if this is becoming an industry-wide practice. My problem is out of the principle, and that alone. Is it practical for me to be so utterly rebellious as to reject every carrier out of principle? Probably not, but I dislike the direction that these companies are headed, and I also dislike some consumers' willingness to accept that. The issue of tethering is not a matter of theft; it's a lost opportunity and a breach of contract. Semantics? Perhaps, but I would seriously advise you all to step back and approach carriers' claims with skepticism. Just because they claim it's wrong, doesn't mean we should bend to their will and support their claims. Do we really have a choice? As of this time, probably not, but please refrain from the need to demonstrate some sort of claim to moral superiority. It's simply a matter of opinion. I am justifying my claims, and all that I ask is that you do the same.

In other words:

It's BULL for them to sit here and say Unlimited Data, yet you can't use it the way you want, and it really isn't unlimited, but you don't know about all this unless you read the fine print, which means they're basically falsely advertising, but their loophole is that effing contract you sign.

Watch the language....

Sent from somewhere...

 

[knivesout]

I don't know what's with the "moral superiority" in some of these posts from the Verizon fanboiz that suddenly came out of the woodwork and wag their fingers at people for expressing discontent with carrier's policies.. Can we discuss without accusations and bickering?

 

[DyMiC]

You are misunderstanding my point. I am perfectly aware of the limitations and restrictions imposed by the ToS and contract. I just find it hypocritical for one party to contradict their claim of "unlimited", which in my eyes, detracts from the arrangement, while the other party is subjugated to the former's conditions. We really have no room for compromise. It's an all or nothing approach that otherwise leaves the consumer empty-handed. We don't have any other viable alternatives, especially if this is becoming an industry-wide practice. My problem is out of the principle, and that alone. Is it practical for me to be so utterly rebellious as to reject every carrier out of principle? Probably not, but I dislike the direction that these companies are headed, and I also dislike some consumers' willingness to accept that. The issue of tethering is not a matter of theft; it's a lost opportunity and a breach of contract. Semantics? Perhaps, but I would seriously advise you all to step back and approach carriers' claims with skepticism. Just because they claim it's wrong, doesn't mean we should bend to their will and support their claims. Do we really have a choice? As of this time, probably not, but please refrain from the need to demonstrate some sort of claim to moral superiority. It's simply a matter of opinion. I am justifying my claims, and all that I ask is that you do the same.

In other words:

It's BULL for them to sit here and say Unlimited Data, yet you can't use it the way you want, and it really isn't unlimited, but you don't know about all this unless you read the fine print, which means they're basically falsely advertising, but their loophole is that effing contract you sign.

Watch the language....

Sent from somewhere...

My bad. It just makes me irate when I actually realize what these corporations are capable of.

And I would say revolt via Class Action, but Verizon is already safeguarding themselves from this by doing away with the unlimited data.

Ugh. This sucks more and more. Just when cell phone service was starting to look good, it has to start receding right back into the dark ages.

 

[jstafford1]

In other words:

It's BULL for them to sit here and say Unlimited Data, yet you can't use it the way you want, and it really isn't unlimited, but you don't know about all this unless you read the fine print, which means they're basically falsely advertising, but their loophole is that effing contract you sign.

Watch the language....

Sent from somewhere...

My bad. It just makes me irate when I actually realize what these corporations are capable of.

And I would say revolt via Class Action, but Verizon is already safeguarding themselves from this by doing away with the unlimited data.

Ugh. This sucks more and more. Just when cell phone service was starting to look good, it has to start receding right back into the dark ages.

Its cool...I understand

Sent from somewhere...

 

[RW-1]

BFD, for everything they do the community comes up with a workaround.

Simple solution, 1% of the population reverts back to basic phones for a contract period. Money talks.

 

[TheOldFart]

My bad. It just makes me irate when I actually realize what these corporations are capable of.

And I would say revolt via Class Action, but Verizon is already safeguarding themselves from this by doing away with the unlimited data.

Ugh. This sucks more and more. Just when cell phone service was starting to look good, it has to start receding right back into the dark ages.

Let me try to understand this. Are you saying that people like you should file a class action suit against Verizon because they are trying to stop you from doing something that violates the contract that you signed? :rofl3:

 

[Oxymoron]

I know this isn't all about tethering, and VZW and the other carriers have legitimate beefs. I just wholehearted disagree with the tethering restraints specifically. Fair use should be allowed (within your "unlimited 5GB"). Which weighs more, a pound of rocks or a pound of feathers? Neither... they both equal one pound. 5GB is 5GB.

When I first bought this phone, I asked if there was an additional charge for tethering. The rep said "We don't offer that service for that device." I responded "But it IS possible even if you don't offer it." He replied "We are aware of that, but there cannot be a charge for a service we don't offer." I said "Well, I NEED to have internet occasionally when away from home to use my laptop. Will I be penalized for tethering? Currently I use DUN over bluetooth on my Windows Mobile device." "No, not as long you don't go over 5GB", he replied. Then he said, "Just download PDAnet, that's what I use."

Now, I know that the "rules" have changed on their tethering policy since way back then, but that to me just illustrates the big picture. I don't think they care if you're not abusing data. They can obviously account for every bit of data used. Punish those who abuse, not those who frugal with usage. I have NEVER, nor to I plan to ever exceed 5GB. Please don't smack my heiny for the wrongs of my siblings.

I will gladly enter a tiered data plan. It doesn't bother me. I don't abuse the data service. But please stop calling 5GB "unlimited data".

I like Motorola devices, and I like VZW's network. I will not cancel my service, go to another provider, etc... I will have this same conversation with a sales rep when I upgrade my device. I will suggest him to check my usage. If I have to be charged another fee to access the same data I'm already paying for, I will decline that service and no longer tether. It's that simple. I'm not paying for it twice. I'll just go to McD's and use free wifi.

Unfair? Probably. Will I continue to use VZW? Yep, their network is rock solid. Will I root my next device? That depends on how well it performs out of the box. If there weren't a need, I wouldn't have rooted to begin with.

With the technology now, I probably won't see a need to root. Would still love to be able to take screen caps though. I can live without that though.

I've said it before, the easiest way for me to stop caring about what my device can or cannot do is to stop reading these forums. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[TheOldFart]

Haha so another tethering=food buffet thing. Its like going to an all you can eat buffet and all they have is endless buffet (unlimited data). One person eat a lot 5 trips (5gbs) and another person only makes 2 trips (2gbs). But then that person goes back and gets another bowl (1gb) and takes it home to have for lunch tomorrow (this is the tethering part.. I think). So in the end one person uses 5 trips and the other only uses 3. Now the restaurant no longer let's you take food home unless your gonna pay extra for it (them making you pay for the tethering part). That just doesn't seem fair...

Sent from my Droid using DroidForums

So the fairest thing that Verizon and the others could do is go to tiered pricing and allow tethering. Then the person who only uses only 2GB could tether when needed and the person who wants to use 10GB and tether every day would pay for it. The low use person would get what he needs without feeling ripped off. This is the only fair way to do it when bandwidth is limited and some want to use far more than the average person, but the average person needs occasional tethering.

 

[Irishdoom]

Haha so another tethering=food buffet thing. Its like going to an all you can eat buffet and all they have is endless buffet (unlimited data). One person eat a lot 5 trips (5gbs) and another person only makes 2 trips (2gbs). But then that person goes back and gets another bowl (1gb) and takes it home to have for lunch tomorrow (this is the tethering part.. I think). So in the end one person uses 5 trips and the other only uses 3. Now the restaurant no longer let's you take food home unless your gonna pay extra for it (them making you pay for the tethering part). That just doesn't seem fair...

Sent from my Droid using DroidForums

So the fairest thing that Verizon and the others could do is go to tiered pricing and allow tethering. Then the person who only uses only 2GB could tether when needed and the person who wants to use 10GB and tether every day would pay for it. The low use person would get what he needs without feeling ripped off. This is the only fair way to do it when bandwidth is limited and some want to use far more than the average person, but the average person needs occasional tethering.

I agree with this 100%. Having a separate $20 a month charge for tethering is silly. If they want to control bandwidth, then CONTROL BANDWIDTH. Maybe VZW is too afraid to get rid of the "unlimited" moniker.

 

[boristhebladexx]

i never tether. i use 3GBs of data a month. i root so i can overclock, which makes my phone usable. a D1 at 600mhz is too laggy to even use. however a rooted D1 at 900mhz with CM7 is an amazing phone. why would they take this away from me!

 

[SquireSCA]

In this case, the phone is eating the meal. Your laptop is eating for free.

I am paying almost $130 a month for my cell phone plan, which includes unlimited data. If once every month or two I want to check email from the laptop or shoot someone a PowerPoint file from the road, I should be able to on the expensive plan that I already have.

There are people that abuse things, and they are the minority.

Tethering is also one of very many reasons to root the phone. If I use it once a month, that is a lot. It's been over 2 months since I used it, and I know for a fact that I use far less data than my plan allows.

It's a non-issue other than what they are trying to make of it, in an effort to screw customers for more money.

Let's be real here, okay? When you signed your contract with Verizon, you know that you are forbidden to tether without paying the tethering charge. If you didn't know that, well all I can say is don't get into a habit of signing contracts without reading it beforehand. As stated in the contract, the unlimited data plan is restricted to your phone.

So basically, you agreed to the terms of their contract, found a way to get a paid service for free, and now they are doing something about that, you are trying to rationalize how that should be already including in the price?

Really, we should feel lucky that we were able to tether all this time without repercussions. Because of tethering and the soft-bricked warranty claims, they are locking everything down. It's a shame.

So they call it stealing, but I beg to differ. There is a cap to the "unlimited" data plan, most companies have the caps or soon will. If I am under that cap, why does it matter if it is from my phone and data plan, that I am paying for, or a combination of my phone and my laptop?

If I go to an all you can eat buffet and pay my $10, why does it matter if I eat those 3 plates of food with a fork, or if I eat some with a fork, some with a spoon and some with chop sticks? I am still me, paying my bill and eating what the restaurant considers my share of the food. How I consume it should not matter and I should not be charged extra.

Now, if I am using that all you can eat feature, and I am taking plates of food out to my friends in the parking lot, then I am stealing, as I am now providing food to other people and I am eating way more than what the restaurant would expect one person to eat.

So in my opinion, the "tethering issue" is one of consumption, and they should only target the people who are abusing it by using too much bandwidth. If I am using my data, on my device, on my plan, and I am under my limit of what they consider a "fair" amount of data as covered by my plan, that should be end of it.

If I pay for unlimited data and between my laptop and phone I only use 1gb of my 5GB limit, how is that worse or "stealing" compared to the guy that uses all 5GB just for his phone? If I am using LESS than my allotted amount of data, why should anyone care if some of that data goes to my phone and some goes to my laptop through my phone? I am still using 80% less data than the other guy. And it is me using it, not someone else.

I know that this is a gray area, but I think that common sense plays a part here, or should.

And there are a ton of people that root, because they want to change the layout, adjust the font size, apply a theme, etc... The don't use or care about tethering and they just want to customize their smart phone, which today really is like a pocket PC. They paid for it, why should they be punished by possibly losing their service?

Corporate greed.

 

[SquireSCA]

I do think that it is stupid to charge for tethering when you already pay for an unlimited data plan. That said, if some persont is using his 4G/LTE phone to provide his home with broadband internet because he doesn't want to pay for a cable modem or DSL, then they are creating a problem for the rest of us.

I would think that unless VZW wants a bunch of court cases, which will cost them far more then 1% of people rooting and tethering will ever cost, they should come up with a better solution.
.

Are you kidding me what court cases? Even if a person was to file suit it would never reach the room. Verizon charges to wireless theatre so in your contract it would say if you want this service you must pay. The judge would fall out of his seat laughing. DISMISSED. If you go to you neighbors. House open the cable box disconnect it then put a splinter attach your own wires and run it to your house it may take awhile before anyone notices. But when the cable company comes and cuts you out your not going to be taking them to court over it. Yes I think its stupid to charge separately for the feature but you have to realize just how long it can take a company to make profit from you. Especially when their giving you 5&6hundred dollar phones for free or very reduced.
I do agree that customization should be a given. And they should give us that option stock or by apps on the market. Any time people take advantage of a company they will take aaction to protect their assets even if most people are using the service responsibly. As with almost everything in life it only takes a few to screw it all up for the rest of us.






Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

Your analogy of the cable box is flawed, because I am going to someone else's service and stealing their "data"...

How am I stealing my own data, that I already paid for?

This is like if Netflix charges for their DVD rentals, but I am only allowed to put that DVD in my living room player. If I want to watch it in the bedroom, I have to pay more.

Now, if I am loaning them out to all my friends, that's a different issue.

But so long as *I* am using the DVD, on *my* players, in *my* home, and *I* am using the amount of DVD's per month(less actually) that they have said that *I* an entitled to, where is the problem?