You the man wug. The DX god nenotroll made me stop believing in smiles upon us again
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Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
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Possible Ways to Crack the Bootloader
- Thread starter aliasxerog
- Start date
I think this is the right path. Goodluck Wug.
And the plan is to do an @home still right? I think it would be epic if we had thousands of computers helping us to get this. And ill do some more research into this and ill give some input on more ideas.
And the plan is to do an @home still right? I think it would be epic if we had thousands of computers helping us to get this. And ill do some more research into this and ill give some input on more ideas.
I sent this email to the Verizon Wireless CEO:
A little less than a day later, I got a call from executive customer support from Verizon. (Side note, I didn't even give them my phone number!!) The woman on the phone gave me her number and asked for more information. She said she was going to look in to what is going on with this and try to provide me more info. I am going to call her later next week to see if anything has been discovered.
Dear Mr. Mead,
I want to start by saying that I am a dedicated customer. Verizon has great service and has always provided excellent support to me.
I am sending you an email because it has come to my attention that Verizon Wireless is asking phone manufacturers to lock the bootloader on Android phones so that end-users cannot load custom ROMs on the phones. Is this true? Would you really make manufacturers go against the very nature of Android by forcing them to operate in a locked down environment?
If Verizon Wireless is not asking manufacturers to lock down the phones, can you please keep the platform open? I know for a fact that I will never ever buy an Android phone that is locked. It is my right to install whatever software I please on a piece of hardware. I can imagine this blowing up in the future and resulting in legal action from the end-users that are being forced in to a closed hardware environment.
So please Mr. Mead, do what is best for your customers and let us install what we want on our phones.
Regards,
Geran Smith
A little less than a day later, I got a call from executive customer support from Verizon. (Side note, I didn't even give them my phone number!!) The woman on the phone gave me her number and asked for more information. She said she was going to look in to what is going on with this and try to provide me more info. I am going to call her later next week to see if anything has been discovered.
kptphalkon
Active Member
I fully support an @home project, but it has to pan out to a true supercomputer status of cpu power or it will take years, even decades, to crack an encryption that is probably already replaced in newer phones.
We need some stats and specs to give an idea of how much cpu time and how many people would be needed to crack sha1 in a reasonable time.
What is the size of a single sha1 hash? How long does a typical (let's say a core duo/core 2 duo powered machine) computer take to run a single operation? From there we can move on to how many operations a second it is capable of, and work our way down to the end result of: how many users are needed to crack the code in x amount of time?
I see it this way. I have a droid 2 global on 2 year contract, with 20 months left. If it cant be done by 18 months then I do not believe the attempt to even be viable, considering how many of us have droid x's and 2's and milestones looking to upgrade.
We need some stats and specs to give an idea of how much cpu time and how many people would be needed to crack sha1 in a reasonable time.
What is the size of a single sha1 hash? How long does a typical (let's say a core duo/core 2 duo powered machine) computer take to run a single operation? From there we can move on to how many operations a second it is capable of, and work our way down to the end result of: how many users are needed to crack the code in x amount of time?
I see it this way. I have a droid 2 global on 2 year contract, with 20 months left. If it cant be done by 18 months then I do not believe the attempt to even be viable, considering how many of us have droid x's and 2's and milestones looking to upgrade.
I hope you're lawyered up. Moto is going to sue the hell outta you, AND keep encrypted bootloaders!! Why does the encrypted bootloader bother you so much anyway? If you don't want encrypted bootloaders, don't buy Motorola... simple.
If the numbers of users who dislike Moto's practices are as big as some would insinuate, the loss of said users would definitely hurt Moto's bottom line...
And enough with this nonsense about "I own the hardware".
First of all, if you got your phones subsidized, you do not own it until your contract has been fulfilled... second, and most importantly, even when you DO own the phone, you still don't own the software on it.... you have a LICENSE to use that software..
Think of it like a CD. Just because you buy the White Album doesn't mean you OWN "Helter Skelter"...
Sent from my Droid using DroidForums App
If the numbers of users who dislike Moto's practices are as big as some would insinuate, the loss of said users would definitely hurt Moto's bottom line...
And enough with this nonsense about "I own the hardware".
First of all, if you got your phones subsidized, you do not own it until your contract has been fulfilled... second, and most importantly, even when you DO own the phone, you still don't own the software on it.... you have a LICENSE to use that software..
Think of it like a CD. Just because you buy the White Album doesn't mean you OWN "Helter Skelter"...
Sent from my Droid using DroidForums App
Last edited:
I almost want to do the @home more than app just because I think it would be really cool.. but realistically, the best approach is non violent social aggression against moto until the point that it's easier for them just to release the friggin keys then look like the bad guys. Moto is just a business.. a good business at that.. they aren't stupid, they know what they are doing and have good reason why they want the bootloader locked. It's called planned extinction in marketing terms.
Moto simply wants to be able hault development on their old devices so that people buy new ones. Plain and simple.. it makes perfect sense and its a great business move as far as they are presently concerned.
If it had anything to do with warranties or anything like that.. then they would just change their policies.
The point of this approach is to prove to Moto that although it would be nice for them to employ a planned extinction strategy on its customers it will be at the expense of loosing all their customers. If they are a smart business which they are, then we will have effectively made the decision for them. It will be a no brainer. Their friggin shareholders will even demand that they release the keys.
This is all good in theory but if people actually want it to work, please understand that it is heavily reliant on Massive exposure.
This means every underground marketing tactic has to be employed by the android community to promote the free app/petition and perpetuating its future exposure.
This means social networking sites, forums, local community networking, viral youtube videos, seo like crazy, guerilla marketing tactics, ghost writers, ect.
It will take more than me, it will take a collective voice and a collective effort. I am being a realist.. if want you this to have any chance of working then help blow this up like it's this most important social event of the 21st century.
I find this issue very important, actually far beyond moto. If we don't act now, locked bootloaders will become industry standard. And as technology improves it will all be in the mobile sector. Look at the atrix. You all see what's happening. It's all coming down to one universal pocket sized device... thats always been the goal. If nothing is done by the community then we are going to giving these manufacturing companies the green light for locking us out from control over our computers. Seeing as the internet and computer technology is by far the most powerful force the community has against tyranny and biased media then I think we should all ensure that our devices remain free forever.
This is not a phone.. its a computer that makes phone calls. The entire computer industry will eventually converge and if we don't do something about this now we are setting ourselves to be walked all over. I think android is one of the most powerful platforms and movements regarding computer technology, lets make sure that we all have control over the hardware as well as the software.
FreeMyMoto!
{{ WugFresh }}
Moto simply wants to be able hault development on their old devices so that people buy new ones. Plain and simple.. it makes perfect sense and its a great business move as far as they are presently concerned.
If it had anything to do with warranties or anything like that.. then they would just change their policies.
The point of this approach is to prove to Moto that although it would be nice for them to employ a planned extinction strategy on its customers it will be at the expense of loosing all their customers. If they are a smart business which they are, then we will have effectively made the decision for them. It will be a no brainer. Their friggin shareholders will even demand that they release the keys.
This is all good in theory but if people actually want it to work, please understand that it is heavily reliant on Massive exposure.
This means every underground marketing tactic has to be employed by the android community to promote the free app/petition and perpetuating its future exposure.
This means social networking sites, forums, local community networking, viral youtube videos, seo like crazy, guerilla marketing tactics, ghost writers, ect.
It will take more than me, it will take a collective voice and a collective effort. I am being a realist.. if want you this to have any chance of working then help blow this up like it's this most important social event of the 21st century.
I find this issue very important, actually far beyond moto. If we don't act now, locked bootloaders will become industry standard. And as technology improves it will all be in the mobile sector. Look at the atrix. You all see what's happening. It's all coming down to one universal pocket sized device... thats always been the goal. If nothing is done by the community then we are going to giving these manufacturing companies the green light for locking us out from control over our computers. Seeing as the internet and computer technology is by far the most powerful force the community has against tyranny and biased media then I think we should all ensure that our devices remain free forever.
This is not a phone.. its a computer that makes phone calls. The entire computer industry will eventually converge and if we don't do something about this now we are setting ourselves to be walked all over. I think android is one of the most powerful platforms and movements regarding computer technology, lets make sure that we all have control over the hardware as well as the software.
FreeMyMoto!
{{ WugFresh }}
Last edited:
I hope you're lawyered up. Moto is going to sue the hell outta you, AND keep encrypted bootloaders!! Why does the encrypted bootloader bother you so much anyway? If you don't want encrypted bootloaders, don't buy Motorola... simple.
If the numbers of users who dislike Moto's practices are as big as some would insinuate, the loss of said users would definitely hurt Moto's bottom line...
And enough with this nonsense about "I own the hardware".
First of all, if you got your phones subsidized, you do not own it until your contract has been fulfilled... second, and most importantly, even when you DO own the phone, you still don't own the software on it.... you have a LICENSE to use that software..
Think of it like a CD. Just because you buy the White Album doesn't mean you OWN "Helter Skelter"...
Sent from my Droid using DroidForums App
A: principle
B: Apache license technically means we do own the software. We have legal rights to distribute it, modify it, and to distribute modified versions of it as long as the original author is acknowledged.
Sent from my Droid X running AOSP and linux kernel 2.6.38.
I almost want to do the @home more than app just because I think it would be really cool.. but realistically, the best approach is non violent social aggression against moto until it's easier for them just to release the friggin keys then look like the bad guys. Moto is just a business.. a good business at that.. they aren't stupid, they know what they are doing and have good reason why they want the bootloader locked. It's called planned extinction in marketing terms.
Moto simply wants to be able hault development on their old devices so that people buy new ones. Plain and simple.. it makes perfect sense and its a great business move as far as they are presently concerned.
If it had anything to do with warranties or anything like that.. then they would just change their policies.
The point of this approach is to prove to Moto that although it would be nice for them to employ a planned extinction strategy on its customers it will be at the expense of loosing all their customers. If they are a smart business which they are, then we will have effectively made the decision for them. It will be a no brainer. Their friggin shareholders will even demand that they release the keys.
This is all good in theory but if people actually want it to work, please understand that it is heavily reliant on Massive exposure.
This means every underground marketing tactic has to be employed by the android community to promote the free apps and perpetuating its future exposure.
This means social networking sites, forums, local community networking, viral youtube videos, seo like crazy, guerilla marketing tactics, ghost writers, ect.
It will take more than me, it will take a collective voice and a collective effort. I am being a realist.. if want this to have any chance of working then help blow this up like it's this most important social event of the 21st century.
I find this issue very important, actually far beyond moto. If we don't act now, locked bootloaders will become industry standard. And as technology improves it will all be in the mobile sector. Look at the atrix. You all see what's happening. It's all coming down to one universal pocket sized device... thats always been the goal. If nothing is done by the community then we are going to giving these manufacturing companies the green light for locking us out from control over our computers. Seeing as the internet and computer technology is by far the most powerful force the community has against tyranny and biased media then I think we should all ensure that our devices remain free forever.
This is not a phone.. its a computer that makes phone calls. The entire computer industry will eventually converge and if we don't do something about this now we are setting ourselves to be walked all over. I think android is one of the most powerful platforms and movements regarding computer technology, lets make sure that we all have control over the hardware as well as the software.
FreeMyMoto!
{{ WugFresh }}
Freemyandroid! And I'm going to take this, source it up, and use it as the marketing campaign for the app if you're okay with that.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Go for it.
@UNC
Moto is sueing me for asking them to unlock my hardware.
Maybe if I organised the @home thing.. but obviously I would look into the legal code before I deployed that. I understand that we are facing an international company with enough money to sue the crap out of me. But if we take perfectly legal action.. they can't do anything accept possibley release the keys.
{{ WugFresh }}
@UNC
Moto is sueing me for asking them to unlock my hardware.
Maybe if I organised the @home thing.. but obviously I would look into the legal code before I deployed that. I understand that we are facing an international company with enough money to sue the crap out of me. But if we take perfectly legal action.. they can't do anything accept possibley release the keys.
{{ WugFresh }}
Last edited:
I hope you're lawyered up. Moto is going to sue the hell outta you, AND keep encrypted bootloaders!! Why does the encrypted bootloader bother you so much anyway? If you don't want encrypted bootloaders, don't buy Motorola... simple.
If the numbers of users who dislike Moto's practices are as big as some would insinuate, the loss of said users would definitely hurt Moto's bottom line...
And enough with this nonsense about "I own the hardware".
First of all, if you got your phones subsidized, you do not own it until your contract has been fulfilled... second, and most importantly, even when you DO own the phone, you still don't own the software on it.... you have a LICENSE to use that software..
Think of it like a CD. Just because you buy the White Album doesn't mean you OWN "Helter Skelter"...
Sent from my Droid using DroidForums App
A: principle
B: Apache license technically means we do own the software. We have legal rights to distribute it, modify it, and to distribute modified versions of it as long as the original author is acknowledged.
Sent from my Droid X running AOSP and linux kernel 2.6.38.
Apache license means that you can own/modify/distribute the framework OS, not specific manufacturer drivers (which are needed to make your phone work at all).
Also, the bootloader doesn't stop you from owning/modifying/distributing the source code, it just stops you from running that source code on their devices...
I actually hope you guys fail. I want my phones OS to be bulletproof. The tougher it is to crack, the less exploits we'll see in the market...
Sent from my Droid using DroidForums App
Ok UNC, thanks for voicing your opinion. I hope you sign up for pilot programs of the first government run implantable brain chips when we get there. You seem like a prime candidate. Have a nice day sir. I'm sure that having limited control over your devices will protect you from preventing and dealing with malicious attacks in the future. Best of luck to you.
{{ WugFresh }}
{{ WugFresh }}
I figured mate, no worries. It's gonna take me a little time to sit down and have time to do it, but I'm going to get that done this weekend, hopefully
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Cool. I wish I knew the SDK better... I have my work cut out for me.. would be an epic fail to launch all these marketing strategies for a newby lame app.. lol.
Once I mock up the GUI maybe some graphics people could help with buttons ect..? I have approximately zero artistic ability.
Also if any devs out there could help/would be willing to help.. it would be greatly appreciated. Ideally I would like to get rolling on this asap so all help would really be awesome.
{{ WugFresh }}
Once I mock up the GUI maybe some graphics people could help with buttons ect..? I have approximately zero artistic ability.
Also if any devs out there could help/would be willing to help.. it would be greatly appreciated. Ideally I would like to get rolling on this asap so all help would really be awesome.
{{ WugFresh }}
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