Possible Ways to Crack the Bootloader

[13th angel]

I think all this talk of lawsuits is pretty silly. Actually, I think most of the complaints about locked bootloaders is pretty ridiculous. How about the people who are writing to carriers and phone manufacturers offer more than just "please unlock the bootloader" or "we're gonna sue" how about offering them reasons to do so, or solutions to whatever problems are causing them to want to lock the bootloaders.
I think two of the bigest reasons they are locking down phones have been mentioned. One is because of all the free tethering people are doing, and 2 is because of the phones they are getting back because people screw up when rooting their phones. I mean just look at all the posts on this forum where people are asking for help because they bricked their phones. Now imagine how many aren't even coming to the forum but are just sending phones back to the manufacturers. Maybe if someone were to suggest that instead of locking down the phone, they use, I guess we could call it, a reverse key, where it is unlocked, but as soon as the phone is rooted it generates a key that lets the manufacturer know its been rooted. Make it so that key can't be changed. If they get the phone back and see its been rooted, then they just tell the phone owner that they are out of luck. I'm not technical enough to know how to make something like this work, but i'm sure there are people who are smart enough to do it. But my point is, if we want things to change we have to start thinking from the other side's point of view and offer them reasons to make changes. Unfortunately the community isn't large enough for a flat out threat to work, so how about trying to work with them. After all, you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Even though I don't really want any flies around.

Read this thread, it gives reasons and solutions to why they should unlock the bootloader. http://bit.ly/esEM1f

The talk about lawsuits is a legit way to get to moto if their is a actual ground for it. Android is hailed as open and it is, until it gets to the manufacturer. This is what makes everyone mad, not so much that it is (in my opinion anyways). I mean, yes i would love for the bootloader to be unlocked just so i could really tweak it and see just what this phone can do but I'll live without it. The think that really ticks me off about it is that every other manufacturer but Moto has (to some degree) unlocked phones.

 

[tcayton49]

I think all this talk of lawsuits is pretty silly. Actually, I think most of the complaints about locked bootloaders is pretty ridiculous. How about the people who are writing to carriers and phone manufacturers offer more than just "please unlock the bootloader" or "we're gonna sue" how about offering them reasons to do so, or solutions to whatever problems are causing them to want to lock the bootloaders.
I think two of the bigest reasons they are locking down phones have been mentioned. One is because of all the free tethering people are doing, and 2 is because of the phones they are getting back because people screw up when rooting their phones. I mean just look at all the posts on this forum where people are asking for help because they bricked their phones. Now imagine how many aren't even coming to the forum but are just sending phones back to the manufacturers. Maybe if someone were to suggest that instead of locking down the phone, they use, I guess we could call it, a reverse key, where it is unlocked, but as soon as the phone is rooted it generates a key that lets the manufacturer know its been rooted. Make it so that key can't be changed. If they get the phone back and see its been rooted, then they just tell the phone owner that they are out of luck. I'm not technical enough to know how to make something like this work, but i'm sure there are people who are smart enough to do it. But my point is, if we want things to change we have to start thinking from the other side's point of view and offer them reasons to make changes. Unfortunately the community isn't large enough for a flat out threat to work, so how about trying to work with them. After all, you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Even though I don't really want any flies around.

Read this thread, it gives reasons and solutions to why they should unlock the bootloader. http://bit.ly/esEM1f

The talk about lawsuits is a legit way to get to moto if their is a actual ground for it. Android is hailed as open and it is, until it gets to the manufacturer. This is what makes everyone mad, not so much that it is (in my opinion anyways). I mean, yes i would love for the bootloader to be unlocked just so i could really tweak it and see just what this phone can do but I'll live without it. The think that really ticks me off about it is that every other manufacturer but Moto has (to some degree) unlocked phones.

Thanks for the post. I truly believe this is the best way to go about getting moto and others to change. If enough people offer solid reasons and solutions they will listen. I wish more energy was devoted to this plan of action rather than the legal threats and hours and hours of time trying to crack the encryption.

 

[bplewis24]

I think all this talk of lawsuits is pretty silly.

Unless somebody can convince me otherwise, I can't see this cause as lawsuit-worthy either.

How about the people who are writing to carriers and phone manufacturers offer more than just "please unlock the bootloader" or "we're gonna sue" how about offering them reasons to do so, or solutions to whatever problems are causing them to want to lock the bootloaders.

Fair point. However, I don't think the issue of locked bootloaders is silly, and I doubt Motorola does either, considering how much effort they've gone to to encrypt them. It's hard to work with the manufacturer or carrier when they mostly ignore you. The first step is to get their attention. There has already been discussion here and elsewhere as to solutions to protect the manufacturer against warranty fraud. And the only way carriers can really get around free tethering is to go to tiered data plans, which we know all are considering anyway.

Brandon

 

[czerdrill]

I think all this talk of lawsuits is pretty silly. Actually, I think most of the complaints about locked bootloaders is pretty ridiculous. How about the people who are writing to carriers and phone manufacturers offer more than just "please unlock the bootloader" or "we're gonna sue" how about offering them reasons to do so, or solutions to whatever problems are causing them to want to lock the bootloaders.
I think two of the bigest reasons they are locking down phones have been mentioned. One is because of all the free tethering people are doing, and 2 is because of the phones they are getting back because people screw up when rooting their phones. I mean just look at all the posts on this forum where people are asking for help because they bricked their phones. Now imagine how many aren't even coming to the forum but are just sending phones back to the manufacturers. Maybe if someone were to suggest that instead of locking down the phone, they use, I guess we could call it, a reverse key, where it is unlocked, but as soon as the phone is rooted it generates a key that lets the manufacturer know its been rooted. Make it so that key can't be changed. If they get the phone back and see its been rooted, then they just tell the phone owner that they are out of luck. I'm not technical enough to know how to make something like this work, but i'm sure there are people who are smart enough to do it. But my point is, if we want things to change we have to start thinking from the other side's point of view and offer them reasons to make changes. Unfortunately the community isn't large enough for a flat out threat to work, so how about trying to work with them. After all, you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Even though I don't really want any flies around.

Read this thread, it gives reasons and solutions to why they should unlock the bootloader. http://bit.ly/esEM1f

The talk about lawsuits is a legit way to get to moto if their is a actual ground for it. Android is hailed as open and it is, until it gets to the manufacturer. This is what makes everyone mad, not so much that it is (in my opinion anyways). I mean, yes i would love for the bootloader to be unlocked just so i could really tweak it and see just what this phone can do but I'll live without it. The think that really ticks me off about it is that every other manufacturer but Moto has (to some degree) unlocked phones.

Thanks for the post. I truly believe this is the best way to go about getting moto and others to change. If enough people offer solid reasons and solutions they will listen. I wish more energy was devoted to this plan of action rather than the legal threats and hours and hours of time trying to crack the encryption.

Can't have said it better myself. I personally think trying to break the bootloader is the biggest waste of time imaginable. If we want to have it unlocked, its going to be Moto that does it, not some android dev in his basement somewhere...

Unfortunately people are too busy trying to stick it to the man, that they're ignoring logic. If Moto unlocks it it'll be because they changed their mind on their own accord, not because of some lawsuit that alleges they did something wrong, when they didnt...

 

[DJxPanda]

I think all this talk of lawsuits is pretty silly. Actually, I think most of the complaints about locked bootloaders is pretty ridiculous. How about the people who are writing to carriers and phone manufacturers offer more than just "please unlock the bootloader" or "we're gonna sue" how about offering them reasons to do so, or solutions to whatever problems are causing them to want to lock the bootloaders.
I think two of the bigest reasons they are locking down phones have been mentioned. One is because of all the free tethering people are doing, and 2 is because of the phones they are getting back because people screw up when rooting their phones. I mean just look at all the posts on this forum where people are asking for help because they bricked their phones. Now imagine how many aren't even coming to the forum but are just sending phones back to the manufacturers. Maybe if someone were to suggest that instead of locking down the phone, they use, I guess we could call it, a reverse key, where it is unlocked, but as soon as the phone is rooted it generates a key that lets the manufacturer know its been rooted. Make it so that key can't be changed. If they get the phone back and see its been rooted, then they just tell the phone owner that they are out of luck. I'm not technical enough to know how to make something like this work, but i'm sure there are people who are smart enough to do it. But my point is, if we want things to change we have to start thinking from the other side's point of view and offer them reasons to make changes. Unfortunately the community isn't large enough for a flat out threat to work, so how about trying to work with them. After all, you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Even though I don't really want any flies around.

A few points here.
1) a lawsuit is enough to get a company to do something. Period. A lawsuit that has many people behind it is scary to a company for possible loss of sales. the community is big enough to make something like a class action suit possible.
2) the manufactuer doesnt have to do anything. They dont have to take a bricked phone back, they can just do an apple and just void ur warranty. There are clear signs that a phone has been bricked due to rooting. Customer support can find out over the phone if a phone is rooted just by asking questions. So that point holds no water.
3) the manufactuers can find out what we want to do with an unlocked bootloader. They have many many programmers that are very farmiliar with the thing we are trying to crack, cuz they built the damn thing. in this case, theyd have to have known what we want to do cuz theyve counteracted it. So trying to work with them and explaining what we want to do may not do anything. But it might. But more than likely not. And unless there is some sort of threat from a community, the conpany womt change.

So... Simply put, a class action against moto would be the right course of action after and only after a good petition is made and presented to moto. this is already being done. But should moto do nothing and laugh in our faces, we take the petition and go class action. Then they will be forced to do something, otherwise, theyll lose sales, which from a business standpoint is a BIG. So theres a solid chance that moto would meet our requests should a threat be present.



Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

 

[tcayton49]

I think all this talk of lawsuits is pretty silly.

Unless somebody can convince me otherwise, I can't see this cause as lawsuit-worthy either.

How about the people who are writing to carriers and phone manufacturers offer more than just "please unlock the bootloader" or "we're gonna sue" how about offering them reasons to do so, or solutions to whatever problems are causing them to want to lock the bootloaders.

Fair point. However, I don't think the issue of locked bootloaders is silly, and I doubt Motorola does either, considering how much effort they've gone to to encrypt them. It's hard to work with the manufacturer or carrier when they mostly ignore you. The first step is to get their attention. There has already been discussion here and elsewhere as to solutions to protect the manufacturer against warranty fraud. And the only way carriers can really get around free tethering is to go to tiered data plans, which we know all are considering anyway.

Brandon

I didn't say that locked bootloaders are silly, I said complaining about them is(but that's a different rant for a different day) But I spend lots of hours on this forum(when I'm supposed to be working...shhhh don't tell my boss, he has an iphone) And All I see is people saying 1)they should unlock it, 2) that if they don't unlock it they'll never buy a moto phone again, and recently 3)we're gonna sue. None of those strategies will work IMHO. We need to think like they do and give them reasons and solutions that work for both sides.

 

[tcayton49]

I think all this talk of lawsuits is pretty silly. Actually, I think most of the complaints about locked bootloaders is pretty ridiculous. How about the people who are writing to carriers and phone manufacturers offer more than just "please unlock the bootloader" or "we're gonna sue" how about offering them reasons to do so, or solutions to whatever problems are causing them to want to lock the bootloaders.
I think two of the bigest reasons they are locking down phones have been mentioned. One is because of all the free tethering people are doing, and 2 is because of the phones they are getting back because people screw up when rooting their phones. I mean just look at all the posts on this forum where people are asking for help because they bricked their phones. Now imagine how many aren't even coming to the forum but are just sending phones back to the manufacturers. Maybe if someone were to suggest that instead of locking down the phone, they use, I guess we could call it, a reverse key, where it is unlocked, but as soon as the phone is rooted it generates a key that lets the manufacturer know its been rooted. Make it so that key can't be changed. If they get the phone back and see its been rooted, then they just tell the phone owner that they are out of luck. I'm not technical enough to know how to make something like this work, but i'm sure there are people who are smart enough to do it. But my point is, if we want things to change we have to start thinking from the other side's point of view and offer them reasons to make changes. Unfortunately the community isn't large enough for a flat out threat to work, so how about trying to work with them. After all, you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Even though I don't really want any flies around.

A few points here.
1) a lawsuit is enough to get a company to do something. Period. A lawsuit that has many people behind it is scary to a company for possible loss of sales. the community is big enough to make something like a class action suit possible.
2) the manufactuer doesnt have to do anything. They dont have to take a bricked phone back, they can just do an apple and just void ur warranty. There are clear signs that a phone has been bricked due to rooting. Customer support can find out over the phone if a phone is rooted just by asking questions. So that point holds no water.
3) the manufactuers can find out what we want to do with an unlocked bootloader. They have many many programmers that are very farmiliar with the thing we are trying to crack, cuz they built the damn thing. in this case, theyd have to have known what we want to do cuz theyve counteracted it. So trying to work with them and explaining what we want to do may not do anything. But it might. But more than likely not. And unless there is some sort of threat from a community, the conpany womt change.

So... Simply put, a class action against moto would be the right course of action after and only after a good petition is made and presented to moto. this is already being done. But should moto do nothing and laugh in our faces, we take the petition and go class action. Then they will be forced to do something, otherwise, theyll lose sales, which from a business standpoint is a BIG. So theres a solid chance that moto would meet our requests should a threat be present.



Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

A few counterpoints(and please understand, I'm not trying to insult or anger anyone, just suggesting what I believe to be the best course of action in this matter.)
1) yes a lawsuit could make something happen, but that is assuming it is succesful which is iffy at best. And do you have any idea how long that process would actually take? Its not very fast paced.
2) and 3) I'm not saying that my ideas are the only ones possible. My point is, if we want things to change we have to start thinking from the other side's point of view and offer them reasons to make changes.

And from a business standpoint-I'm an accountant so I can speak on this subject pretty knowledgeably, the community probably represents less than 1% of total sales for Motorola. In this economy, if my company only saw a 1% decrease in sales, I would be doing backflips and would probably get a bonus. So you shouldn't really bank on that effecting moto.

 

[ahC_hED]

Look at what SE is doing for their X11 models, they are unlocking them while protecting their interests.

Sent from my DROID2 using DroidForums App

 

[bplewis24]

1) yes a lawsuit could make something happen, but that is assuming it is succesful which is iffy at best. And do you have any idea how long that process would actually take? Its not very fast paced.

I don't think he's referring to a successful trial lawsuit. I think what he's alluding to is the threat of a lawsuit and the media hype behind it having an affect on the company. Sometimes the PR guys get involved before the legal guys do, and determine that it's in their best interest to work with the customers.

I personally think that's unlikely in this case, but I won't begrudge that sort of grass-roots effort. I just wish it involved something with less of a threatening tone like a petition or something.

Brandon

 

[13th angel]

We:re trying the petetion route now..... kinda doubt it will do any good though personally.

Sent from my Liberated D2G

 

[joeyx2]

Take this to mind. Moto gets these petitions and treats of a lawsuit and releases they keys to unlock the bootloader. Then Verizon says hey we don't like that and takes moto smart phone off there list of phone to have. Now moto has one of its biggest companies not buying there phones. That sounds like a big increase in lost revenues. Don't get me wrong I want unlocked bootloaders as much as the next guy. I went from droid 1 to D2G and im missing my droid 1 greatly just figured since we are trying to see both sides of this ordeal i'd point that out.

 

[13th angel]

LMAO...give up..if it hasnt bn cracked by now it will never...

Lol and that thinking is exactly why it will never be. Some things take time.

Now if you aren't going to add a post that actually adds to the discussion please don't post.

Sent from my Liberated D2G

 

[UNC]

As long as Verizon wants encryption, we'll have encryption. Send your petition to them....

LINK

 

[dfuser312553]

^I guess that Motorola the only one who listens?

 

[aliasxerog]

I think all this talk of lawsuits is pretty silly. Actually, I think most of the complaints about locked bootloaders is pretty ridiculous. How about the people who are writing to carriers and phone manufacturers offer more than just "please unlock the bootloader" or "we're gonna sue" how about offering them reasons to do so, or solutions to whatever problems are causing them to want to lock the bootloaders.
I think two of the bigest reasons they are locking down phones have been mentioned. One is because of all the free tethering people are doing, and 2 is because of the phones they are getting back because people screw up when rooting their phones. I mean just look at all the posts on this forum where people are asking for help because they bricked their phones. Now imagine how many aren't even coming to the forum but are just sending phones back to the manufacturers. Maybe if someone were to suggest that instead of locking down the phone, they use, I guess we could call it, a reverse key, where it is unlocked, but as soon as the phone is rooted it generates a key that lets the manufacturer know its been rooted. Make it so that key can't be changed. If they get the phone back and see its been rooted, then they just tell the phone owner that they are out of luck. I'm not technical enough to know how to make something like this work, but i'm sure there are people who are smart enough to do it. But my point is, if we want things to change we have to start thinking from the other side's point of view and offer them reasons to make changes. Unfortunately the community isn't large enough for a flat out threat to work, so how about trying to work with them. After all, you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Even though I don't really want any flies around.

A few points here.
1) a lawsuit is enough to get a company to do something. Period. A lawsuit that has many people behind it is scary to a company for possible loss of sales. the community is big enough to make something like a class action suit possible.
2) the manufactuer doesnt have to do anything. They dont have to take a bricked phone back, they can just do an apple and just void ur warranty. There are clear signs that a phone has been bricked due to rooting. Customer support can find out over the phone if a phone is rooted just by asking questions. So that point holds no water.
3) the manufactuers can find out what we want to do with an unlocked bootloader. They have many many programmers that are very farmiliar with the thing we are trying to crack, cuz they built the damn thing. in this case, theyd have to have known what we want to do cuz theyve counteracted it. So trying to work with them and explaining what we want to do may not do anything. But it might. But more than likely not. And unless there is some sort of threat from a community, the conpany womt change.

So... Simply put, a class action against moto would be the right course of action after and only after a good petition is made and presented to moto. this is already being done. But should moto do nothing and laugh in our faces, we take the petition and go class action. Then they will be forced to do something, otherwise, theyll lose sales, which from a business standpoint is a BIG. So theres a solid chance that moto would meet our requests should a threat be present.



Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

A few counterpoints(and please understand, I'm not trying to insult or anger anyone, just suggesting what I believe to be the best course of action in this matter.)
1) yes a lawsuit could make something happen, but that is assuming it is succesful which is iffy at best. And do you have any idea how long that process would actually take? Its not very fast paced.
2) and 3) I'm not saying that my ideas are the only ones possible. My point is, if we want things to change we have to start thinking from the other side's point of view and offer them reasons to make changes.

And from a business standpoint-I'm an accountant so I can speak on this subject pretty knowledgeably, the community probably represents less than 1% of total sales for Motorola. In this economy, if my company only saw a 1% decrease in sales, I would be doing backflips and would probably get a bonus. So you shouldn't really bank on that effecting moto.

I whole heartedly agree with this post. I would be dead of lung cancer before a lawsuit really made any headway. The only way we could really hurt moto would be a full on smear campaign. For them to really notice something is up I would say we would need around a 10 to 15 percent loss of userbase. I'm not really sure that that is feasible. Our best shot is from the petition and software standpoints.

Sent from my Droid X running AOSP and linux kernel 2.6.38.