I guess I should have been more clear. The average store Rep or customer service Rep cannot see where you are going or have been. I would have to assume that someone does have access to see this information at some level.
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Tethering - Here's why I wouldn't do it...
- Thread starter JFDroid
- Start date
I guess I should have been more clear. The average store Rep or customer service Rep cannot see where you are going or have been. I would have to assume that someone does have access to see this information at some level.
Ok, so I believe that verizon currently tracks down tetherers. They probably start with the biggest data users...say over 20gigs/mo.
The only way to hide tethering from verizon is to 1) encrypt all tethering data and 2) use a proxy server. So, how long until someone makes tethering software that does this? Maybe already out there? Would it be banned from the market? Would google allow an android backdoor to find violators? Nah...
The only way to hide tethering from verizon is to 1) encrypt all tethering data and 2) use a proxy server. So, how long until someone makes tethering software that does this? Maybe already out there? Would it be banned from the market? Would google allow an android backdoor to find violators? Nah...
just because of this thread......im wired to my pc usein phone as my modem.....i wanna see if they will cancel my service since i pay them 130 bucks a month....and pay my cable bill which also has internet...and its less than 80 a month.....my guess is nothing will happen.....and if it does?????...cool switch to someone else!!!
<sigh> What an amusing thread.
Somewhere back up there someone noted that your Droid usage is "unlimited." That is exactly correct. It is also correct that you violate your ToS if you tether your droid and access internet content on another device.
It doesn't matter a whit whether VZW can or cannot prove that you are tethering your Droid. If they determine from the amount of data traffic to/from your phone that you probably are tethering they can simply slap you with an additional $30 per month charge which is the difference between your "unlimited" data plan and a "broadband" plan.
The latter IS limited to 5 gigabytes per month. So they can simply charge you additional per megabyte charges above that limit if they like.
If that happens it is up to the customer to either "prove" they are not tethering the Droid or pay the additional charges. If you refuse to pay the additional charges they can terminate your service for non-payment.
YOU can then sue THEM. They have many lawyers. How many do you have? YOU can then try to straighten out your credit history. Credit rating agencies have no obligation to fix your credit. They have no obligation to give someone who sues their creditors a sterling credit rating.
In short, if you don't believe that VZW holds all the cards in this sort of dispute, you haven't read your contract.
OK. That handles the "can they" issue. The next issue is the "will they" question.
Verizon has conflicting pressures. On the one hand, they don't want to drive customers away to other carriers if they can help it. Especially when other carriers may offer free tethering (just as Verizon does for the Palm Pre.)
On the other hand, the explosion of devices capable of accessing the internet over their 3G network puts substantial pressure to derive more revenue from that traffic so they can build a 4G network.
It is entirely possible that VZW is taking a closer look at traffic on their network and trying to determine how much of it results from tethering. As long as it was a small slice of the 3G traffic, there was no reason to (a) piss off an occasional customer and (b) suffer the PR problems that might result from denying service to customers (especially in the context of the net neutrality disputes that are currently going on.)
But once the traffic reaches levels where service on the 3G network suffers for the vast majority of customers who use a tiny fraction of 5gigs per month, VZW may well decide to do something about it.
And at that point, return to the first part of this post. They can do whatever they please.
Somewhere back up there someone noted that your Droid usage is "unlimited." That is exactly correct. It is also correct that you violate your ToS if you tether your droid and access internet content on another device.
It doesn't matter a whit whether VZW can or cannot prove that you are tethering your Droid. If they determine from the amount of data traffic to/from your phone that you probably are tethering they can simply slap you with an additional $30 per month charge which is the difference between your "unlimited" data plan and a "broadband" plan.
The latter IS limited to 5 gigabytes per month. So they can simply charge you additional per megabyte charges above that limit if they like.
If that happens it is up to the customer to either "prove" they are not tethering the Droid or pay the additional charges. If you refuse to pay the additional charges they can terminate your service for non-payment.
YOU can then sue THEM. They have many lawyers. How many do you have? YOU can then try to straighten out your credit history. Credit rating agencies have no obligation to fix your credit. They have no obligation to give someone who sues their creditors a sterling credit rating.
In short, if you don't believe that VZW holds all the cards in this sort of dispute, you haven't read your contract.
OK. That handles the "can they" issue. The next issue is the "will they" question.
Verizon has conflicting pressures. On the one hand, they don't want to drive customers away to other carriers if they can help it. Especially when other carriers may offer free tethering (just as Verizon does for the Palm Pre.)
On the other hand, the explosion of devices capable of accessing the internet over their 3G network puts substantial pressure to derive more revenue from that traffic so they can build a 4G network.
It is entirely possible that VZW is taking a closer look at traffic on their network and trying to determine how much of it results from tethering. As long as it was a small slice of the 3G traffic, there was no reason to (a) piss off an occasional customer and (b) suffer the PR problems that might result from denying service to customers (especially in the context of the net neutrality disputes that are currently going on.)
But once the traffic reaches levels where service on the 3G network suffers for the vast majority of customers who use a tiny fraction of 5gigs per month, VZW may well decide to do something about it.
And at that point, return to the first part of this post. They can do whatever they please.
You guys do realize the cost it would take for Verizon to dedicate teams of people to start analizing peoples accounts to see if your tethering. As another poster posted... they can only see the ammount of data transmitted. Not where you go or have been. Billing is auto generated. Not some person looking at individual usage and adding up a bill for it.
Tethering through vzaccess manager or any other software that Verizon develops or enables on your phone is the only, let me say that again.. the only way that Verizon can see that your tethering! Using pdanet.. wireless tether.. ect... only shows under your total data usage.
When I look at an account in EROES and look at someones data usage, there is two things to look at data usage and tethering usage. Tethering usage ONLY shows up if connected through vzaccess manager.
The only other way to detect tethering would to look at data trends. And spikes in data usage. But they still would have one hell of a time to prove it. And the cost involved in having people analyze This would be astronomical! Out of the 5+ years I have been in the cellphone industry I've never once had to deal with a customer billing issue due to unauthorized tethering. Never!
I've seen posts on crackberry and other sites of people making claims that they was billed for usage or canceled. But yet there has never been any proof backing up those claims. In all the years being on these tech blogs, forums, etc... one would think someone would post proof of these claims. A letter from Verizon, a bill statement, a cancellation notice. Something! But I have yet to see any proof. Period.
WHUT? There's a guy posted right here in this thread that he sat there and watched a family member get their ass chewed by Vz over tethering. If that's not proof I don't know what is. I mean he said he sat there and watched it for crize sake...
Nate (yeah...that was sarcasim you smelled on your computer screen)
I started a new thread to debate facts about tethering usage... if anyone cares to post up some facts.
http://www.droidforums.net/forum/dr...-phone-connects-facts-myths-about-debate.html
http://www.droidforums.net/forum/dr...-phone-connects-facts-myths-about-debate.html
It doesn't matter a whit whether VZW can or cannot prove that you are tethering your Droid. If they determine from the amount of data traffic to/from your phone that you probably are tethering they can simply slap you with an additional $30 per month charge which is the difference between your "unlimited" data plan and a "broadband" plan.
The latter IS limited to 5 gigabytes per month. So they can simply charge you additional per megabyte charges above that limit if they like.
If that happens it is up to the customer to either "prove" they are not tethering the Droid or pay the additional charges. If you refuse to pay the additional charges they can terminate your service for non-payment.
Where do you get your information? The way you're describing it, if I rack up a lot of traffic I'll get pegged as a tetherer, even if I'm using the device as intended, say to view hi quality movies. Can that be right?
The way some people are describing it, VZ informs customers that they KNOW tethering is taking place. I think they might just be analyzing the data of heavy bandwidth users. I'm just speculating, but these things make me think that tethering software that encrypts and proxies may be the future.
I sat and watched a family member argue with Verizon over her tethering fees, the prospect of her account being cancelled, their accusations of her usage, her denials etc. I sat and watched all of this, and read the initial letter from Verizon regarding her tethering abuse. Is it your opinion that the Verizon store in NW Washington DC is a sort of super Verizon that is able to detect tethering when no other Verizons can?
BTW, thats sarcasm. I've seen it with my own eyes, so please lets not argue about whether i happens. I am fairly certain that my family member did not pay, but she is no longer on Verizon. Her account was closed and I am guessing the bill is in collections. The device was a Blackberry Storm and all of this happened in 2010.
was your family member using the vzw provided tethering service when confronted about this issue?
and if you're scared of rooting and tethering then grow a pair and man up! lol
V
verian
Guest
shut up. that's enough
It doesn't matter a whit whether VZW can or cannot prove that you are tethering your Droid. If they determine from the amount of data traffic to/from your phone that you probably are tethering they can simply slap you with an additional $30 per month charge which is the difference between your "unlimited" data plan and a "broadband" plan.
The latter IS limited to 5 gigabytes per month. So they can simply charge you additional per megabyte charges above that limit if they like.
If that happens it is up to the customer to either "prove" they are not tethering the Droid or pay the additional charges. If you refuse to pay the additional charges they can terminate your service for non-payment.
Where do you get your information? The way you're describing it, if I rack up a lot of traffic I'll get pegged as a tetherer, even if I'm using the device as intended, say to view hi quality movies. Can that be right?
The way some people are describing it, VZ informs customers that they KNOW tethering is taking place. I think they might just be analyzing the data of heavy bandwidth users. I'm just speculating, but these things make me think that tethering software that encrypts and proxies may be the future.
If you "rack up a lot of traffic" Verizon can decide you are you have violated the terms of your ToS and charge you for the overage. Period. If you don't like it, you can (a) not pay your bill and/or (b) take legal action.
If you're prepared to (a) ruin your credit and/or (b) test your attorney's skills against the army of attorneys VZW has retained, go for it.
If you read your service agreement you'll see that it was written to provide Verizon with presumptive power to prevent "abuse" of their network with the phone they have purchased for you. You don't own your phone free and clear until your service agreement is over and Verizon is perfectly free to decide how their network will be used and to determine if you have used it in the way they license.
I realize that few people understand the nature of the contract they sign when they commit themselves to a two year "lease to buy" a phone, but virtually all contract law places the burden of proof on the customer and the power to redefine or terminate the contract on the part of Verizon.
That's why the entire issue of whether VZW "knows" that tethering is taking place is irrelevant. They don't have to prove anything.
P.S. Where my information comes from is having been married to an attorney and having taught constitutional law.
You're focused on the contract and abuse of the network. We're talking about what verizon can determine. If you tether without using a lot of data, is it their policy and practice to track people down? How do they do it? Would a proxy/encryption prevent this? The contract is just a piece of paper. I think we're trying to figure out what Verizon does in practice.
Can we say Palm Pre plus....
With that said all rooted people know to unroot before going to stock. Second you do not have to be rooted to tether. And as far as tethering there is a lot of back and forth about it. The only way that vzw know 100% for sure you are tethering is if you tell them or hand them your phone with tethering app in the drawer or on the home page. I also believe common sense should be used. Basic use such as sites you go on with your phone ok; downloading movies....I would not recommend.
With that said all rooted people know to unroot before going to stock. Second you do not have to be rooted to tether. And as far as tethering there is a lot of back and forth about it. The only way that vzw know 100% for sure you are tethering is if you tell them or hand them your phone with tethering app in the drawer or on the home page. I also believe common sense should be used. Basic use such as sites you go on with your phone ok; downloading movies....I would not recommend.
Can we say Palm Pre plus....
With that said all rooted people know to unroot before going to stock. Second you do not have to be rooted to tether. And as far as tethering there is a lot of back and forth about it. The only way that vzw know 100% for sure you are tethering is if you tell them or hand them your phone with tethering app in the drawer or on the home page. I also believe common sense should be used. Basic use such as sites you go on with your phone ok; downloading movies....I would not recommend.
Yeah, but they don't need to be 100% sure to send you a bill or even cancel your account. If they see you downloading java and flash applets, netflix streams, etc. then they'll be sure enough. That's why I'm saying that tethering apps might need to employ encryption and proxying. But is that necessary? How many people have really been caught? Was it because they used a lot of bandwidth? Is VZ letting low bandwidth tetherers have a free ride for now?
I'd like to hear from people who've been caught.
mtnbikerfred
Member
I paid for tethering on my Windows Mobile Smart phone. I pay for it on my Droid (Mobile Broadband connect). The only thing our Verizon rep said, is they wont support it, since there is no VZAccess manager app for Android.
Oh, and BTW Their TERMS are pretty clear. I don;t think anyone is going to hear from them unless your torrents or WoW sessions are using so much bandwidth that you adversely affect the 3G network...
Oh, and BTW Their TERMS are pretty clear. I don;t think anyone is going to hear from them unless your torrents or WoW sessions are using so much bandwidth that you adversely affect the 3G network...
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