Tethering: How your phone connects and facts and myths about it debate...

[Dave12308]

I've received a letter from VZW stating that I need to contact them immediately due to unusual usage on my account. This was right after I was at a customer's location for a couple weeks that had severely limited internet access and I tethered up my Droid in order to surf the net.

I didn't ever go over the magic 5GB limit for a month...not even close, but the daily usage was definitely higher than normal during that period.

I ignored the letter since by the time I got it I was no longer tethering daily, haven't heard anything else from them. The main ways they can see your traffic is by type, amount of data, and broswer user-agent strings.

Most likely, the reason you got the letter had something to do with them thinking you had a trojan on your phone or something; not anything to do with tethering. If they thought you were tethering, they'd have simply charged you big money for it. They probably wanted to make sure you didn't have any malware on your device, and when you didn't respond probably figured if you weren't worried, they weren't.

 

[Dave12308]

From what I've learned from a VZW employee friend is that with certain devices (Droid included) they can't tell a difference. He said that doesn't mean they can't find you though. Amount of data used is a big part. He said they recently caught someone tethering who was downloading a lot of movies. That's a lit of data. so when they saw his numbers they probed further and that's what they found.

He said if you're just doing browsing and stuff though he wouldn't worry about it. Take that for what its worth.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Just don't do anything stupid (read: that can't be done on the Droid itself) like downloading torrents; and you should be fine. If they notice traffic that isn't possible from the Droid itself, it'll probably set off red flags.

 

[mcatdtDroid]

Sorry my sense of humor didn't go over real well with you. Hopefully others get it.

OK, fair enough. Perhaps I overreacted.

Moving on, I notice that people like to brag that they're tethering and using tons of bandwidth. Are we supposed to be impressed? Anyone can tether all day and night. It doesn't prove anything except that you like to brag about taking risks. Grow up.

I ruffle feathers simply because these threads have turned into a "if you tether, you are stealing" sorta feel

I'd much rather hear from:
-anyone who's ever been caught tetheringSo would I.... But this is proving harder to locate that bigfoot
-anyone who knows someone who's been caughtnot so much on this one as it's just heresay (hearsay) whatever.... I want to see a scanned copy of the VZW cancellation, or national debt level bill..... Until then, this is all fearmongering because one particular group can't justify tethering
-anyone who works for VZ and has new info there have been tons of vzw folk on here saying all sorts of things..... I want to see a bill
-anyone who's talked to VZ and has new info heresay
-anyone with informative technical knowledge heresay

I don't want to stifle free speech. I'm just saying this type of info would be helpful.

it's been hashed and rehashed on countless threads..... everyone is an expert.... everyone knows someone who is a cousin of someone married to someone who works for VZW. hell, my ex-wife used to work at verizon. She works at AT&T now.

 

[jroc]

I tell you what, you want real proof....take your Droid into a Verizon corporate store, corporate office and show them first hand that you tether, with no Mobile Broadband Connect account....and let us know how it went.....

Seriously, we all wanna know how Verizon really feels on this issue.

 

[mcatdtDroid]

so you don't have any proof either huh.......


post up a scanned copy of a ginormous bill
post up a scanned copy of a cancelled contract.



it doesn't have to be yours, but SURELY, with all of the questions surrounding this issue, there's got to be SOMEONE out there that has been cancelled or charged for data abuse that would verify it easily by posting a scanned confirmation..... I mean, this whole debate can't be a wive's tale, could it dancedroiddancedroid

 

[Vulcan1600]

I've received a letter from VZW stating that I need to contact them immediately due to unusual usage on my account. This was right after I was at a customer's location for a couple weeks that had severely limited internet access and I tethered up my Droid in order to surf the net.

I didn't ever go over the magic 5GB limit for a month...not even close, but the daily usage was definitely higher than normal during that period.

I ignored the letter since by the time I got it I was no longer tethering daily, haven't heard anything else from them. The main ways they can see your traffic is by type, amount of data, and broswer user-agent strings.

This is bogus. How do I know? There is no "magic 5 GB limit". Unlimited is unlimited. Someone is trying to ruffle feathers here.

 

[mcatdtDroid]

magic 5 mg limit = wive's tale that some have bit hook line and sinker.....


problem is, they think the best way to get out of the hole they dug is to dig faster

 

[BigMcGuire]

I tell you what, you want real proof....take your Droid into a Verizon corporate store, corporate office and show them first hand that you tether, with no Mobile Broadband Connect account....and let us know how it went.....

Seriously, we all wanna know how Verizon really feels on this issue.

I did, I talked to three, yes THREE different reps at Verizon Wireless. Each one of them would not activate a Mobile Broadband Connect for my Motorola Droid because they said my phone doesn't support tethering. I told each one that I found an app on the market that allowed me to do this. They all said it was OK to tether using that app. The last rep said just try to keep it under 5GB - and it was ok to tether for now.

I used 1-800-256-4646 to talk to the reps from my Verizon Wireless phone. I told each rep I wanted to tether legally so I wanted to add the Mobile Broadband Connect plan to my phone. But all three refused to add the Mobile Broadband Connect to my phone.

I think tethering more than 5GB will set off warning lights. Using my phone's browser and downloading on my phone is technically unlimited, like it says. So that's what I'll do - keep the tethering under 5GB and my phone, I barely use 300MB a month anyway.

 

[aminaked]

it's been hashed and rehashed on countless threads..... everyone is an expert.... everyone knows someone who is a cousin of someone married to someone who works for VZW. hell, my ex-wife used to work at verizon. She works at AT&T now.

So you dismiss everything as hearsay. That's up to you. This isn't a court of law, it's a forum. I just want to hear from people who've had some kind of real world experience with this so I can judge for myself. What's your point in participating here anyway? You call people fearmongers, but you're just as bad or worse by encouraging potentially risky behavior. How are you going to feel if your advice ends up costing people money or ruining their credit?

 

[Droids]

I'll give you one example. I'm thinking most of you may not remember when broadband was very new and only select locations in the country had it. I lived in a small out of the way town that wasn't going to get broadband of any kind for some years. Hughes network came out with the DirectPC sateliite dish. I got the combo unit with both DirectPC and DirectTV in one dish. I was one of the first, my order number is <100, and I still have the damn thing in the attic somewhere.

I called their tech support before ordering it (probably a handful of guys at the time), and was assured DirectPC was designed for power users, they wanted people that would use all it's potential, unlimited downloads, no caps, do anything you want.

Well I took them at their word as many others jumping on the bandwagon did over the next couple of years. Their network became saturated and they implemented a Fair Access Policy and I'll let you Google it if you want to know the result of that.

The future is wireless, everything we will do will be wireless in time. It takes time to build an infrastructure that can handle unlimited wireless the same as our wired connections do now. In the meantime though, if you abuse the limited network bandwidth available over current 3g and even 4g networks, the providers will crack down, they won't have a choice. They will start charging you for the bandwidth you use, or they will cancel your account, or they will implement a Fair Access Policy, that will affect everyone.

They will (guaranteed, give it time) go after the major abuses first. I could care less how bright you think you are by tunneling your connection through a proxy server. They do not and will not care when it comes to crunch time. You have X number of gigabytes going through your 3g connection, you are abusing our network, your account is canceled, or you are now subject to the FAP.

The other option is the company will spend billions of dollars upgrading their network constantly, so the 5% that use 80% of the bandwidth are kept happy. What do think think will happen first?

I was one of those 5% that brought the satellites to their knees, so don't need to lecture me, or tell me I'm full of it, just saying I've been there and done that, and having experienced that I can see the same thing thing happening to the 3g/4g networks. Eventually the wireless infrastructure will be there to support the bandwidth hogs, but it's still a few years off.

Have fun while it lasts. If you really think you're invincible, that you know the secret, that you won't spoil it for yourself and others...myself and just a handful of other peeps found ways around the Hughes FAP, but it didn't last more than a year before they caught on and accounts were canceled.

Having said all that... I don't care how you use your phone, do whatever you want. Just don't try to make the point that you're entitled to use the bandwidth any way you want, just because you can. I could care less that you watch tv on 3g or download torrents. You're only wrong when you state you are entitled to it because you spent some money on a smartphone that's capable of it.

 

[aminaked]

Well said Droids.

Also, anyone thinking this isn't a real concern should read this:

Family disputes Verizon's $18,000 bill | Technically Incorrect - CNET News

 

[christim]

Small little fight that got worked out but overall good posts by folks all around that post often. This thread is similar to others where some of the reasons you can be seen tethering are given. S1's got some good technical knowledge and is right that the majority of non-IT type geeks are lost at "NAT" unless its a little winged creature that buzzes in your ear.

1. content-site>>>cell tower>>>cell phone>>>device
2. content-site>>>proxy>>>cell tower>>>cell phone>>>device.
3. content-site>>>cell tower>>>proxy>>>cell phone>>>device

The device might be an xbox, laptop, computer, etc.

The content site is your web server, ftp site, netflix, xbox live, torrent site, etc

The proxy acts on your behalf. The content site thinks it is only communicating with it. Likewise the cell tower thinks it is only communicating with the proxy.

In option 2, encrypted or not, all traffic between your cell phone and the proxy pass through the cell tower (verizon's network). They don't see traffic going to all the sites you visit.

Option 3 (to stay on topic with the title of this thread) shows an example of how you wouldn't do so well hiding your traffic. The cell tower would still see traffic coming from netflix or xbox. As the tower wasn't talking to your phone, because you are hidden behind the proxy, I don't even know how that would be set up and be functional.

So, we already know streaming netflix down through the phone isn't a good idea. Some are willing to pay for a bandwidth plan but Verizon says it isn't available for all phones.

Another consideration is where do you access this proxy from? How much, if anything does it cost you to maintain it or pay to use it. For those on the Incredible it might be easier to just pay the extra money if you need need that kind of access.

And its been said elsewhere, but Droids is right. To cut down on abuse everyone doesn't need to be served notice. A small percentage of high abusers that make the press with huge bills would do.'

As for the option of expanding the network to accommodate all the extra bandwidth being used versus cracking down: It's been over 15 years since I had my first modem. This phone and the internet it connects to blows the socks off of what once was. What "is now" was totally unimaginable back then. I'd like to think that trend will continue for the next 15 years too.

Flash, android tv's, notepads, netflix, etc...all will use bandwidth. If Verizon doesn't sell it to us at reasonable rates someone else will.

 

[BSmith]

I don't have much to add other than I tethered on ATT with my Iphone for about a year. 25+ gigs a month and never heard a peep. I actually canceled the internet at my house.

 

[JCo352]

I don't have much to add other than I tethered on ATT with my Iphone for about a year. 25+ gigs a month and never heard a peep. I actually canceled the internet at my house.

So you were the contributing factor of at&t's crappy service...

 

[aminaked]

So, we already know streaming netflix down through the phone isn't a good idea.

Unless you encrypt it too.

Verizon's terms of service and privacy statement say that they can analyze your data DESTINATION and TYPE to enforce compliance with their rules. A proxy server only changes the destination. If you don't encrypt, the destination can be seen and the type of data can be viewed. If it's a netflix stream, java applet, etc. then they can see you're tethering. Encryption plus proxying needed.

But as you've said, there is a cost to setting up a proxy. For most people, I doubt there will be an easy way to hide tethering. However, some people do it. I've seen one or two people on this forum write about using an SSH tunnel to encrypt and a home computer to proxy.

***

I don't know if VZ currently comes down on tetherers, but I don't think that cancelling your account plus charging an ETF are the worst things they can do. If they can show damages or what they normally charge per KB for tethering then a bill of over $1000 is possible. Just look at what the recording industry has gotten on a per song basis. It's wild.

Tethering is a new revenue stream for wireless companies. They have the potential to replace DSL/cable internet companies. There's a lot of money in that! VZ won't let unauthorized tethering stand. Tetherers often use a lot of bandwidth so VZ isn't making the margins they'd like there.

To any that call me a fearmonger and naysay these things: You really believe a corporation is going to let us use their resources without compensation?