You Will Be Forced Off Unlimited If You Try To Buy A Phone Full Price At A Corporate Verizon Store

[SquireSCA]

actually it was closer in speed to first gen DSL... I used it regularly on my LG VX8100 over bluetooth tethering while in AIT in 2006 then then in the field later that year with my unit.

oh that's back when data used your minutes instead of... well data.

Mine was pitiful... It was literally like dial up most places I went to, so in the end how much data could I really use?

 

[Sajo]

What the heck is going on here?

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[SquireSCA]

What the heck is going on here?

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Its anarchy! LOL

 

[cr6]

It's what happens anytime UDP is brought up. It's the nature of the data beast. [emoji2]

The fact of the matter is, a large number of people that gave up their UDPs, did so because they wanted a new device and didn't want to save up to pay full retail for their device.
I'm all for carriers making big bucks, but when they go out of their way to deceive people, that's what I don't like.
That said, I'll continue to jump through whatever hoops Verizon wants me to jump through in order to keep my UDP. And THAT shouldn't affect another Verizons customer experience whatsoever. We each made our decisions and are happy with the outcome, that's all that matters here. [emoji106]

S5 tap'n

 

[94lt1]

OK .the g4 is returned... The maxx is back on that line, I'm less 35$ ..but all is as it was..

 

[liftedplane]

Mine was pitiful... It was literally like dial up most places I went to, so in the end how much data could I really use?

you really should edit your other response.... you missed a quote somewhere and it was impossible to read,

yes my comment about black people was a red herring... done on purpose

you completely glossed over the cost of actual services

AND artificially keeping the price of something high to make more profits is not good business it's shady, it's wrong and the government agreed... you do need to make profit... you DO NOT need to make 1000% profit.... honestly the cost of operating most business you will be find with a simple 100-200% profit (to include operating costs, salaries... etc.). I know in my business some items I can pull 500%-1000% profit if I wanted top... but I don't.... because that's wrong.

yes it costs big red money to expand their network... it does not justify taking advantage and artificial inflation.

oh and EV-DO Rev. A speeds were pretty impressive all things considered... I know there was a few times I pushed the limit when in the field just to see... 20gb playing lotro while on maintenance night shifts was pretty easy... that was tethering my 3G blackberry with barely 2 bars in Yakima. Sorry you had really poor 3G speeds

Evolution-Data Optimized - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[SquireSCA]

you really should edit your other response.... you missed a quote somewhere and it was impossible to read,

yes my comment about black people was a red herring... done on purpose

you completely glossed over the cost of actual services

AND artificially keeping the price of something high to make more profits is not good business it's shady, it's wrong and the government agreed... you do need to make profit... you DO NOT need to make 1000% profit.... honestly the cost of operating most business you will be find with a simple 100% profit. I know I am in my business. some items I can pull 300% profit if I wanted to... but I don't.... because that's wrong.

yes it costs big red money to expand their network... it does not justify taking advantage and artificial inflation.

oh and EV-DO Rev. A speeds were pretty impressive all things considered... I know there was a few times I pushed the limit when in the field just to see... 20gb playing lotro while on maintenance night shifts was pretty easy... that was tethering my 3G blackberry with barely 2 bars in Yakima. Sorry you had really poor 3G speeds

Evolution-Data Optimized - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

What do you think VZW spends annually to upgrade and maintain their network? What about labor costs? Benefits?

It's a lot. Yes, they are trying to maximize profits. Why shouldn't they? They have the best network in the country, we all know and agree to that.

Would they have the best network if they cut their profits in half and gave away Unlimited for $30 still?

Nope. They would be Sprint. Unlimited plans with good pricing, and a crappy spotty network.

I left and went to Sprint for a bit, and it was awful. In downtown Atlanta, I would get less than 1mbps on 4G, with ping times over 1000ms... It was like having two soup cans and a piece of string. LOL

So I went back to VZW, and I pay the premium price because it WORKS, and it is FAST. I can get a signal way the hell up in the mtns when I ride... Sprint and Tmobile? No way in hell.

THAT is why they can justify a hefty price premium, because people know that VZW's network can be relied on where others can't.

And it is mad profits that allows them to do that.

The two do go hand in hand...

 

[pc747]

You're extremely misinformed here. If you would have taken the time to read the link I provided a couple pages back, you'd see that 4G is actually more efficient at sending copious amounts of data over their lines, so it's actually costing the carrier less for UDP customers using more. The majority of users still on UDPs aren't on it with a 3G connection so I can't understand why you keep bringing that up, they're using UDPs on 4G LTE connections. The fact is, carrier's are ALWAYS changing their plans in order to maximize profits, and Verizon (with the largest 4G network in the country) knew they had a gold mine on their hands and figured the best way to maximize profits was by charging more for their data, when in reality it isn't costing them a dime. Just like text messages.
I would suggest taking some time to actually research your argument, because as it stands, it's based on misinformation. Being upset at others for using their unlimited data plans to their advantage, because you ditched yours seems it bit skewed. Why would you care how people use their unlimited data?

S5 tap'n

and you have data to back this ridiculous claim up with? let me guess, all black people are criminals too right?


Yet again another ridiculous point, driving your vehicle and using your phone are two completely different things. You put a bunch of music and videos on your phone? I guess I could start ripping videos from youtube to watch on my phone... I guess I just have to preemptively know which ones I want to watch. maybe I need my crystal ball. I know, Xfinity could soak all interstates with free wifi signals... then I can connect to my home internet account through their wifi while on my MOBILE phone when driving and use data from my home internet instead of my cellular internet.

there problem solved...



wait what? you just contradicted yourself.... I can put hundred of hours of video and music on my phone... oh wait... no SD card, and 32gb internal storage is paltry compared to what I have now.

I guess I could use verizon's cloud storage or any other solution... oh wait, that takes data.... hmm... looks like I've got a real conundrum


Again.... YOU'RE OPINION... not fact... just because YOU don't need it doesn't mean other's actually have no need for it


and you know this how? verizon is like an ADHD child... you have absolutely no way of knowing what they will and won't do

just because $30 is nothing to you does not mean it's nothing to others. and yes having to pay full price means a fair amount


You can't be this daft can you? remember these phones are SUBSIDIZED meaning there is a portion of our bill we pay that goes towards the cost of the phone when we originally purchased it... AFTER we go off contract and retain unlimited we still pay this... it doesn't magically disappear off our bill.

So yes, in essence we are paying a premium, we are paying for the minutes we use (remember very few of us have unlimited minutes, that really wasn't a thing when we got our plans) our texts... yeah unlimited... data... sure unlimited, (I still pay for unlimited data regardless of whether they offer it anymore) oh... and that pesky fee I pay for having my phone subsidized.. that I'm still paying, because my phone is still "subsidized" oh... and if I do decide to upgrade in the store, I have to pay the upgrade fee.... please don't tell me you agree with the upgrade fee.... that's absolutely ridiculous that there's a fee to upgrade you're phone... honestly we are paying them to do their effing jobs.

here's let's break down my bill

I have 2 smart phones, 2 dumb phones, my smart phones have unlimited data, I have unlimited texts and 2100 minutes a month. my bill averages about $320 a month.

let's look at the more everything plans we'll say 10gb of data 2 smart phones 2 dumb phones and well unlimited texts and minutes.

data $80 for 10gb
$40 per smart phone that's $80
$20 per dumb phone that's $40
taxes surcharges... not entirely sure but we'll throw another $20 on just to be safe.

hmm... that's only $220 a month for the same thing I already have... minus the data that is oh wait... TEC on my phones so... let's add another $6.99 x 3 (I only have TEC on three devices) so $21

well... that's $240 (rounding down) a month, wait, that's more than.... hold on a second.

my bill $320
current price w/ less data $240

$320-$240=$80 looks like I could afford the 20gb plan and still come out ahead $20... oh... but if I go over like I have this month already while sitting at 24gb with ZERO tethering.... I'll pay through the nose.

so don't tell me I don't pay a premium for unlimited data cause I sure as hell do... I pay $80 extra a month than I could supposedly "live" with by your standards.


see above


two quotes up


again comparing apples to hot dogs.... the cost of living goes up... also greed in these companies and the need to stuff their pockets with our money and doing everything they can to take advantage of the sheople in this country means that the cost can be ARTIFICIALLY inflated to better suit their needs. There's absolute zero transparency with big red, we have to take "their" word that "their" network can't handle "our" traffic... and we have zero recourse.

remember when Samsung, Sony and other major TV manufacturers got slapped a few years ago for artificially keeping the price of TV's raised to... oh no.... make more profits.

so no these companies only care about one things, the bottom line, how much money can they squeeze from their customers before we can't afford it, then how can they squeeze some more. it's like banks making literally BILLIONS of dollars on overdraft fees... yet they are allowed to loan $9 dollars for every $1 dollar you put into your account... yet they complain if you pull more than you have... and it's all done by computers... not people.

verizon does not have our best interests in mind, verizon is not trying to keep the field level between high data users and low data users, verizon is simply doing what verizon can do to make a profit any way it possibly can

We all make good point and on both sides of the argument.

Yes the reality is that LTE is far more efficient than the old 3G plans. Plus compared to what people pay elsewhere for wireless service we know that the carriers are using this smoke and mirrors to make a profit.

I argued for years how is it when I signed a contract for a device why didn't something drop off once I paid the phone off. In fact carriers got asked this question enough to where they rearranged the agreement to the plans we see now.

The point is we can go back and forth on here until we turn blue and red and end up passing out. But the reality is this, as a consumer we need to be aware of what is going on. It is like asking the question why does this bowl of oatmeal at Cracker Barrel cost $5 when I can buy a box for $3 and Cracker Barrel responding with "the extra is to pay labor, fund their healthcare, and keep stockholders happy so we stay in business" (point is it can go round and round). This is our reality...but you guys are right to point out what is going on in what the carriers try and sell consumers. At the end of the day we make the decision whether to buy or move on. These threads only can be beneficial if at the end we give the facts with a solution to help the consumer along their way.

Example:
We know that carriers are wanting people off of their grandfather UD, so much so that carriers like ATT can care less about the FCC fines. We are not going to change their business model but we can adapt. Those that live in an area where they can switch may want to look at switching if they can. Those that can't then we will lay out steps to avoid losing their UD:

1) such as what @Jonny Kansas and some of the others pointed out in not allowing the carrier store to activate their device, they should do it themselves (AT&T tried to pull that game on me even when my phone was mailed to me...I was told by a rep I know about it coming and told to make sure I destroy and discard the sim card that they have in the phone so not to get charged).

2) where to buy their devices and what devices will work on said network (ie Nexus 6 and New Moto working on all carrier networks and can be bought through a third party).

I guess the point I try and make is that we change the things we can and adapt to what we can't.

 

[SquireSCA]

We all make good point and on both sides of the argument.

Yes the reality is that LTE is far more efficient than the old 3G plans. Plus compared to what people pay elsewhere for wireless service we know that the carriers are using this smoke and mirrors to make a profit.

I argued for years how is it when I signed a contract for a device why didn't something drop off once I paid the phone off. In fact carriers got asked this question enough to where they rearranged the agreement to the plans we see now.

The point is we can go back and forth on here until we turn blue and red and end up passing out. But the reality is this, as a consumer we need to be aware of what is going on. It is like asking the question why does this bowl of oatmeal at Cracker Barrel cost $5 when I can buy a box for $3 and Cracker Barrel responding with "the extra is to pay labor, fund their healthcare, and keep stockholders happy so we stay in business" (point is it can go round and round). This is our reality...but you guys are right to point out what is going on in what the carriers try and sell consumers. At the end of the day we make the decision whether to buy or move on. These threads only can be beneficial if at the end we give the facts with a solution to help the consumer along their way.

Example:
We know that carriers are wanting people off of their grandfather UD, so much so that carriers like ATT can care less about the FCC fines. We are not going to change their business model but we can adapt. Those that live in an area where they can switch may want to look at switching if they can. Those that can't then we will lay out steps to avoid losing their UD:

1) such as what @Jonny Kansas and some of the others pointed out in not allowing the carrier store to activate their device, they should do it themselves (AT&T tried to pull that game on me even when my phone was mailed to me...I was told by a rep I know about it coming and told to make sure I destroy and discard the sim card that they have in the phone so not to get charged).

2) where to buy their devices and what devices will work on said network (ie Nexus 6 and New Moto working on all carrier networks and can be bought through a third party).

I guess the point I try and make is that we change the things we can and adapt to what we can't.

I get all that. At the end of the day, it is VZW's call to make. If they decide to nix the UDP's, they can and will. People can threaten to leave, and maybe 1 in 10 will. And of those, a huge chunk will come back because they miss being on the better network...

 

[liftedplane]

What do you think VZW spends annually to upgrade and maintain their network? What about labor costs? Benefits?

let's just run simple numbers... these are complete theorycraft, have no meaning aside from illustrating a point

if it costs vzw $100 to upgrade a tower... this includes labor, etc etc.

tell me WHY they need to make $3000 in profits on this $100 cost of operating?

this is essentially what they are doing, artificially inflating the prices to stuff the money in their pockets and laugh all the way to the bank.

honestly if big red were to actually use their "mad profits" and really invest in their network not only would unlimited data be a complete "non-issue" issue... it's already not an issue they just want to make it one. but their network could literally have NO holes in it at all.... with the amount of profit they make.

they simply don't care enough because they know they're at the top and they are complacent.

 

[SquireSCA]

let's just run simple numbers... these are complete theorycraft, have no meaning aside from illustrating a point

if it costs vzw $100 to upgrade a tower... this includes labor, etc etc.

tell me WHY they need to make $3000 in profits on this $100 cost of operating?

this is essentially what they are doing, artificially inflating the prices to stuff the money in their pockets and laugh all the way to the bank.

honestly if big red were to actually use their "mad profits" and really invest in their network not only would unlimited data be a complete "non-issue" issue... it's already not an issue they just want to make it one. but their network could literally have NO holes in it at all.... with the amount of profit they make.

they simply don't care enough because they know they're at the top and they are complacent.

I have two simple questions for you...

1) What are the actual numbers that VZW invests in infrastructure each year? Have you looked at their annual report, and do you know what their true margins are?

2) Regardless of whether they could offer unlimited or not and stay profitable... Why do YOU feel that you are entitled to them doing that? Personally, why do you feel that they SHOULD do that, apart from the obvious fact that "you want it"? What is their motivation to do so?

 

[SquireSCA]

And those are serious questions.

Let's pretend that I could get you 30 minutes in front of the CEO of VZW, to sit down in his office and have you pitch the idea to him of why he needs to offer Unlimited data for $30 or whatever, to anyone that wants it.

Present your business case, explain to me(him) why it is in his and VZW's best interests to do that.

 

[cr6]

For me personally: I understand that Verizon can (and likely will) do away with grandfathered UD at any time. I have no problem with that at all. While they don't offer UDP to "new" customers (which again, I'm fine with) and have changed the process for those of us "grandfathered in". (Which again, I'm fine with) As long as Verizon continues to give me the option to keep my UDP, I'll continue to play by their rules (i.e. buying full retail) in order to keep my UDP. For these reasons alone, I am "entitled" to keep (& use as I see fit) my UDP, since I am following the rules VERIZON put in place. Verizon knows how much data I consume each month, and if THEY are fine with it, everyone else should be as well.
Again, I understand this could change at any time, I'm fine with that. I'll simply figure out another option. But I personally won't be leaving Verizon if they decide to do that, simply because they provide "me" with the best speeds, most reliable coverage, and best customer service.

S5 tap'n

 

[Sajo]

For me personally: I understand that Verizon can (and likely will) do away with grandfathered UD at any time. I have no problem with that at all. While they don't offer UDP to "new" customers (which again, I'm fine with) and have changed the process for those of us "grandfathered in". (Which again, I'm fine with) As long as Verizon continues to give me the option to keep my UDP, I'll continue to play by their rules (i.e. buying full retail) in order to keep my UDP. For these reasons alone, I am "entitled" to keep (& use as I see fit) my UDP, since I am following the rules VERIZON put in place. Verizon knows how much data I consume each month, and if THEY are fine with it, everyone else should be as well.
Again, I understand this could change at any time, I'm fine with that. I'll simply figure out another option. But I personally won't be leaving Verizon if they decide to do that, simply because they provide "me" with the best speeds, most reliable coverage, and best customer service.

S5 tap'n

[emoji106]

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[SquireSCA]

Well, the rules change, and they have that right. I saw the writing on the wall a couple years ago, and being that I don't use a ton of data, it made sense to move off it...