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A Plan For A Brighter Android Future

The language is generally interpreted to mean hardware by people on these forums trying to justify rooting and roming as not violating TOS you mean.

It says manufacturer specs, not manufacturers specs AT LAUNCH. If the manufacturer pushes an update, that is the new spec. My company does this all the time. In fact, if you never root or rom your phone, but also never accept an OTA update, then you are technically not in compliance either.
 
It says manufacturer specs, not manufacturers specs AT LAUNCH. If the manufacturer pushes an update, that is the new spec. My company does this all the time. In fact, if you never root or rom your phone, but also never accept an OTA update, then you are technically not in compliance either.

Very interesting interpretation there, I hadn't considered that with the OTA's...
 

And unlimited anything is not sustainable in the long run. While I can't find Verizon legal jargon that defines what their "unlimited data" can be used for (how about running a small datacenter from your Verizon phone? :-) , AT&T's superior attorneys have defined it: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-ph...tended Purposes Of The Wireless Data Service?
I'd say many AT&T customers who currently use more than 2GB/month are in violation of AT&T's terms. Rather than lose customers, they plan to make those who use more pay more. I'm not necessarily agreeing with that strategy; just trying to analyze it.

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums
 
In fact, if you never root or rom your phone, but also never accept an OTA update, then you are technically not in compliance either.

If you are not rooted, is it even possible to block Verizon OTA updates? I don't recall accepting the 2.2 update; I just found it on my phone when I woke up one morning when I was at an out of town conference.

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums
 
In fact, if you never root or rom your phone, but also never accept an OTA update, then you are technically not in compliance either.

If you are not rooted, is it even possible to block Verizon OTA updates? I don't recall accepting the 2.2 update; I just found it on my phone when I woke up one morning when I was at an out of town conference.

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

Truthfully, I'm not sure. I think you can hit 'Install Later' at least for a while, but don't think you can indefinitely.

Used that more to illustrate my point than as an actual real world example.
 
The language is generally interpreted to mean hardware by people on these forums trying to justify rooting and roming as not violating TOS you mean.

It says manufacturer specs, not manufacturers specs AT LAUNCH. If the manufacturer pushes an update, that is the new spec. My company does this all the time. In fact, if you never root or rom your phone, but also never accept an OTA update, then you are technically not in compliance either.

Agreed. It's both hardware and software specifications and anyone who tries to make that distinction is just trying to justify. By that logic, if I root and delete android completely on my phone, verizon should still support it because I didn't modify the hardware. Trust me, not gonna happen.

Secondly if people really believed it only had to do with hardware (which they don't) you wouldn't be hiding the fact that you root when you send your phone in for service (which they do).

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
Here's what I think might happen:

Carriers are going to create a study that shows that they are losing revenues because some people are abusing their network bandwidth, and that this adversely affects their normal users.

Carriers will associate the small percentage of these bandwidth hogs to users using tethering without paying for a tethering plan.

Carriers will narrow the list down to rooted users who are tethering. They will be able to identify if a phone is rooted. They will have a list of rooted bandwidth hogs that they will present in court.

If list is small, they will go after those rooted users. If list is large, they will try to identify the ringleader(s) who facilitate rooting.
Easy to identify the ringleaders: they post pro-rooting messages all over the place, and tweet more than any bird and have many twitter followers.

Carriers will use their legal muscle to force ringleaders to cease and desist.
Ringleaders will not have financial resources to fight Carriers, because in this country, he who can afford the most justice will usually prevail.

Hopefully, ringleaders don't work for anyone who is affiliated with Carriers in any way, or ringleader's job (and income) is in immediate jeopardy.

After costs from legal confrontation, ringleaders may not have enough money to even afford to buy a USB cable anymore :( let alone get a new phone and try to root it.
So, Carriers will have won.

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@Natey
A.) Rooting isn't illegal
B.) They already track people who tether without a plan and will send C&D's to those individuals long before they consider taking any of their customers to court.
C.) Going after the "ring leaders" of rooting is complete nonsense:
-Protected by our first amendment right.
-The people who provide information about rooting and promote the benefits of it, like myself, are not in violation of anything nor can we be held legally accountable for others decision to modify their device.
-Rooting isn't illegal.
-You can tether without root using apps like PDAnet.

A much more logical scenario is that they start sending out C&D's to people who tether without a plan. Then, if they violate again, an extra tethering fee will be added to the bill. And if they really want to, they can just lose you as a customer and cancel your service. Taking a bunch of paying customers to small claims court without first sending out any notices, warnings or C&D's is highly unlikely.

People have been modifying android devices from the beginning, this isn't news to the service providers. It only recently became a problem when they realized that their present infrastructure could no longer support the immense data usage. Rather than invest in building more towers, they are trying to address the primary problem, which is :
- A portion of their customer base uses data excessively without paying for a tethering plan : so C&D's, fees, and service cancelation.
-NOT rooting : they are not going to try and hold people, like me who advocate root, legally accountable for exercising our first amendment right and indirectly influencing people to root. The information is legal, it was published to the internet legally, and it's regarding a subject that the supreme court justice deemed legal.

Calling us "ring leaders", like this is some sort of criminal organization, is not only offensive and disrespectful to all the hard working devs, but it is also the very essence of the mentality which has been holding back open source development. Furthermore this type of outlook is what legitimizes the service providers push towards closed and restricted platforms.

We are not criminals, we are developers and technology enthusiasts. The tethering without a plan issue is unfortunately something that has been directly associated with this group and hurts our image. However, with effective policies and possible revisions to the pricing schemes, I believe that there could be a middle ground where both parties benefit.

I am going to be following the unlocked Sony project closely and trying to speak with their representatives. That initiative marks the beginning of corporate recognition and response to the legitimate needs of the developer community. Building off that already approved corporate plan, I want to show that not only can our devices be freed from these system level restrictions in a responsible and efficient manner, but that through effective marketing strategies and the implementation of a consolated recovery mode + market-esk ROM manager, that the development community can be embraced for profitable gains. I believe that if the procedures were simplified a little and the in built factory reset actually restored the device back to stock, then root could effectively be marketed as a competitive advantage. I believe that if done correctly, sales could be increased, the development of the android platform itself would speed up tremendously, and that many iOS customers would be enticed to make the switch to android.

The rest is just paper work and market research to prove weather or not my beliefs are possible. Sony has already stepped up to the plate, who's next?

{{ WugFresh }}
 
Last edited:
...Going after the "ring leaders" of rooting is complete nonsense:
-Protected by our first amendment right.
-The people who provide information about rooting and promote the benefits of it, like myself, are not in violation of anything nor can we be held legally accountable for others decision to modify their device.

Is the jury still out on this guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz

And another unfortunate software developer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums
 
Last edited:
@Natey
A.) Rooting isn't illegal
B.) They already track people who tether without a plan and will send C&D's to those individuals long before they consider taking any of their customers to court.
C.) Going after the "ring leaders" of rooting is complete nonsense:
-Protected by our first amendment right.
-The people who provide information about rooting and promote the benefits of it, like myself, are not in violation of anything nor can we be held legally accountable for others decision to modify their device.
-Rooting isn't illegal.
-You can tether without root using apps like PDAnet.

A much more logical scenario is that they start sending out C&D's to people who tether without a plan. Then, if they violate again, an extra tethering fee will be added to the bill. And if they really want to, they can just lose you as a customer and cancel your service. Taking a bunch of paying customers to small claims court without first sending out any notices, warnings or C&D's is highly unlikely.

People have been modifying android devices from the beginning, this isn't news to the service providers. It only recently became a problem when they realized that their present infrastructure could no longer support the immense data usage. Rather than invest in building more towers, they are trying to address the primary problem, which is :
- A portion of their customer base uses data excessively without paying for a tethering plan : so C&D's, fees, and service cancelation.
-NOT rooting : they are not going to try and hold people, like me who advocate root, legally accountable for exercising our first amendment right and indirectly influencing people to root. The information is legal, it was published to the internet legally, and it's regarding a subject that the supreme court justice deemed legal.

Calling us "ring leaders", like this is some sort of criminal organization, is not only offensive and disrespectful to all the hard working devs, but it is also the very essence of the mentality which has been holding back open source development. Furthermore this type of outlook is what legitimizes the service providers push towards closed and restricted platforms.

We are not criminals, we are developers and technology enthusiasts. The tethering without a plan issue is unfortunately something that has been directly associated with this group and hurts our image. However, with effective policies and possible revisions to the pricing schemes, I believe that there could be a middle ground where both parties benefit.

I am going to be following the unlocked Sony project closely and trying to speak with their representatives. That initiative marks the beginning of corporate recognition and response to the legitimate needs of the developer community. Building off that already approved corporate plan, I want to show that not only can our devices be freed from these system level restrictions in a responsible and efficient manner, but that through effective marketing strategies and the implementation of a consolated recovery mode + market-esk ROM manager, that the development community can be embraced for profitable gains. I believe that if the procedures were simplified a little and the in built factory reset actually restored the device back to stock, then root could effectively be marketed as a competitive advantage. I believe that if done correctly, sales could be increased, the development of the android platform itself would speed up tremendously, and that many iOS customers would be enticed to make the switch to android.

The rest is just paper work and market research to prove weather or not my beliefs are possible. Sony has already stepped up to the plate, who's next?

{{ WugFresh }}

While I agree with you that going to court is not something that Verizon is going to do because that would be a waste of money for them, but more for the customer (especially since they can get your money easily without taking it that far), you're a little wrong about the first amendment rights thing. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to say and do whatever you want whenever you want.

If you're telling people how to steal service by tethering, you can (technically) be held accountable and saying "Freedom of Speeech!!!" in court won't hold up. Or if you're telling people how to commit insurance fraud by rooting and then unrooting when the stuff hits the fan, I'm pretty sure that you can be held accountable for that too (again...VZW is not going to take anyone to court over that obviously, but just wanna make sure you actually understand your rights before you start using them as a defense). Freedom of speech isn't a license to say/do anything you want.
 
...Going after the "ring leaders" of rooting is complete nonsense:
-Protected by our first amendment right.
-The people who provide information about rooting and promote the benefits of it, like myself, are not in violation of anything nor can we be held legally accountable for others decision to modify their device.

Is the jury still out on this guy?
George Hotz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And another unfortunate software developer:
Julian Assange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

I just read they "settled" with Geohot lol. In other words, he couldn't outmuscle their million dollar lawyers and agreed to drop the fight. Pretty much what would be expected from any lawsuit where a couple of people try to take on a multi-billion dollar corporation. The full terms haven't been disclosed, but he's not allowed to speak or post about the PS3 exploit again, or will have to pay $10,000 for each violation. So yes...the corporation wins again...but is anyone surprised? haha
 
Geohot was being sued by Sony, so the big corporation didn't win. They dropped the suit against him and he is donating the leftover legal funds(which were donated to him by other hackers, one would assume) to charity. Sony probably gave him a job. At least that's what I gathered from the latest news stories.
 
Geohot was being sued by Sony, so the big corporation didn't win. They dropped the suit against him and he is donating the leftover legal funds(which were donated to him by other hackers, one would assume) to charity. Sony probably gave him a job. At least that's what I gathered from the latest news stories.

You can spin it anyway you want, but if the settlement includes him not being able to talk about exploits, and a fine if he does, then Sony certainly got what they wanted.
 
Geohot was being sued by Sony, so the big corporation didn't win. They dropped the suit against him and he is donating the leftover legal funds(which were donated to him by other hackers, one would assume) to charity. Sony probably gave him a job. At least that's what I gathered from the latest news stories.

Sony gave him a job and dropped the suit? Just like that? They were like "ahhh, nevermind!"? LOL.

Sorry...no. Sony got what they wanted, and they did win. Not sure why people automatically equate settlements as victories for the person brining the suit. Trust me, Geohot took the settlement because he knew he had no chance of successfully defending himself against sony. And i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't really think they gave him a job, because that's just hilarious.

If he talks about the exploit, or publishes it anywhere he has to pay $10G's per. The only "victory" he has is that he hasn't been forced to declare bankruptcy because of a suit that he had no chance of winning...
 
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