A Plan For A Brighter Android Future

[czerdrill]

I am not trying to justify it at all. The policies would have to be changed to take away this problem.

I think that they can bring anyone to court and scare them into a settlement. But making a tethering app and publishing it is not illegal by my judgment. If the service provider contacted the dev first, issued a C&D because they believe the app was being used to steal service, and then the dev told them to screw off, then yes... there would be no legal recourse. This debate is rather pointless, because there is no section of my plan aimed to convince the carriers that tethering without a plan is legal.

{{ WugFresh }}

It's not a question of scaring them into a settlement. if you truly believe that you're correct, why would you be scared into a settlement? trust me, if you're foolish enough to bring it to trial they'll happily go along knowing full well you're going to lose. offering a settlement is a favor to you, not them trembling in their boots wondering whether or not they'll actually win...the only "gray area" if any is that you know that what you're doing is wrong and the whole "i dont believe i'm wrong" is just a way to convince yourself that you're not doing anything wrong.

it is a completely useless debate, absolutely, just remember that you were the one that got it going with the whole "providing the means doesnt make you wrong" argument...clearly, that's not the case.

"by your judgment" means nothing, to anyone. not an insult, but it's true. that's like me saying "drugs should be legal by my judgment"...it's just a baseless statement with no foundation or point whatsoever. it's illegal, no matter how you want to spin it. and if you're providing the way for someone to do something illegal, you're just as responsible as the next person. and like i said, it's not like the devs are not tethering. like they're just innocent suppliers of tethering apps and are flabbergasted and shocked that people are tethering with the apps they provided...

i hope this useless argument makes you realize, at the very least, that there is no incentive for carriers to do any of the things your suggesting, especially when you are still not admitting that tethering is wrong, and are still arguing that it may or may not be justifiable (even if you say your plan doesn't include trying to convince carriers of that). if you want to forge change, the devs and the users need to take responsibility for the things they've done and not try to say that they're not doing anything wrong. if the dev community consisted of people just supplying ROMs and themes, itd be far easier to convince carriers. that's not the case. the dev community consists of people teaching others how to circumvent and violate the TOS and signed contracts, steal service, circumvent throttling (LOL), and users who worship these devs and refuse to admit that they're doing these things and think they are entitled to do whatever they want because (1) data is data, (2) it's my phone and i paid for it and can do whatever i want, and (3) open source!!! FTW!!!!

 

[Doulandroid]

Verizon realized how many convert, and upgrade users they have acquired through the dev/ insider buzz. I know people who cannot successfully program a coffee pot who read droid life. Xda, engadget, CNET, all post root/jailreak info. Tether will be dealt with at some point, locking phones helps, but walking a line that doesn't alienate devs, future converts by corporatising platforms has made android the largest in the world. I would imagine there is a much more heated debate going on, about these same issues, within the industry proper. Would not want to be in a RIM board meeting right about now.

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[WugFresh]

I am not trying to justify it at all. The policies would have to be changed to take away this problem.

I think that they can bring anyone to court and scare them into a settlement. But making a tethering app and publishing it is not illegal by my judgment. If the service provider contacted the dev first, issued a C&D because they believe the app was being used to steal service, and then the dev told them to screw off, then yes... there would be no legal recourse. This debate is rather pointless, because there is no section of my plan aimed to convince the carriers that tethering without a plan is legal.

{{ WugFresh }}

It's not a question of scaring them into a settlement. if you truly believe that you're correct, why would you be scared into a settlement? trust me, if you're foolish enough to bring it to trial they'll happily go along knowing full well you're going to lose. offering a settlement is a favor to you, not them trembling in their boots wondering whether or not they'll actually win...the only "gray area" if any is that you know that what you're doing is wrong and the whole "i dont believe i'm wrong" is just a way to convince yourself that you're not doing anything wrong.

it is a completely useless debate, absolutely, just remember that you were the one that got it going with the whole "providing the means doesnt make you wrong" argument...clearly, that's not the case.

"by your judgment" means nothing, to anyone. not an insult, but it's true. that's like me saying "drugs should be legal by my judgment"...it's just a baseless statement with no foundation or point whatsoever. it's illegal, no matter how you want to spin it. and if you're providing the way for someone to do something illegal, you're just as responsible as the next person. and like i said, it's not like the devs are not tethering. like they're just innocent suppliers of tethering apps and are flabbergasted and shocked that people are tethering with the apps they provided...

i hope this useless argument makes you realize, at the very least, that there is no incentive for carriers to do any of the things your suggesting, especially when you are still not admitting that tethering is wrong, and are still arguing that it may or may not be justifiable (even if you say your plan doesn't include trying to convince carriers of that). if you want to forge change, the devs and the users need to take responsibility for the things they've done and not try to say that they're not doing anything wrong. if the dev community consisted of people just supplying ROMs and themes, itd be far easier to convince carriers. that's not the case. the dev community consists of people teaching others how to circumvent and violate the TOS and signed contracts, steal service, circumvent throttling (LOL), and users who worship these devs and refuse to admit that they're doing these things and think they are entitled to do whatever they want because (1) data is data, (2) it's my phone and i paid for it and can do whatever i want, and (3) open source!!! FTW!!!!

Lol. Ok, fair enough. I admit that it is wrong, but this plan aside, I chose to violate it occasionally because I personally think that it's nonsense to change 20 extra for 2GB of the same data you pay 30 dollars for an unlimited plan, so just like I j-walk when no cars are around, sometimes I really don't care, does that make it right.. no, not if you define right by the legal code. The fact of the matter is, is that data IS data, so either reduce the tethering fee so people just ignore how silly the policy is and pay for it anyway, make it unlimited with the same soft cap system as the normal pseudo unlimited data plans, or switch to hard caps. But the plan as it exists today gives me every incentive to say screw that, I am going to root and tether instead. If they just charged me a little more money for the same unlimited plan but with tethering (maybe a slightly higher soft cap) then I would buy it.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[sacnotsack]

Post #1 has got to he the longest post in droidforums history. Lol

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[Doulandroid]

Longest in a John Holmes way, or in a dinner with your mother in law way?

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[sacnotsack]

Lol take it as you will. Btw I actually get along with all my inlaws. Its my biological mother that I don't get along with.

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[Doulandroid]

Lol take it as you will. Btw I actually get along with all my inlaws. Its my biological mother that I don't get along with.

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Was using the in-law reference as more of a metaphorically contextualised meme, the world is a complex place. Just try to enjoy life, friends, and those who care about you. And be forewarned, if you root, flying monkeys will steal your lugnuts. Happy, czerdrill?

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[xan]

great thread wugfresh!

Why cant a forward thinking carrier at least try and sell one open phone and plan, and just see how the customer response is?

on the whole "speeding and not getting caught makes breaking the law ok" point; I hang out with some cops from time to time, and even when they're off duty they speed like nobodys biz... 'jus saying.

 

[czerdrill]

Lol take it as you will. Btw I actually get along with all my inlaws. Its my biological mother that I don't get along with.

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Was using the in-law reference as more of a metaphorically contextualised meme, the world is a complex place. Just try to enjoy life, friends, and those who care about you. And be forewarned, if you root, flying monkeys will steal your lugnuts. Happy, czerdrill?

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I just stole a hundred dollar steak from a restaurant. I'm taking this to the supreme court! These corporations been holdin us down too long! Steak lovers unite. Beef is beef, I can steal it if I want! Still sounds lame, man...but keep spinning....

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[czerdrill]

Edit sorry doubl

 

[Natey2]

... Why cant a forward thinking carrier at least try and sell one open phone and plan, and just see how the customer response is?

One can buy a Google/Nexus phone, install AOSP Android, and sign up for a no-contract service from a Carrier.
Won't be cheap though.

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[czerdrill]

... Why cant a forward thinking carrier at least try and sell one open phone and plan, and just see how the customer response is?

One can buy a Google/Nexus phone, install AOSP Android, and sign up for a no-contract service from a Carrier.
Won't be cheap though.

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Umm I'm entitled to a subsidized phone and unlimited data with tethering included. Clearly I would never consider doing what you suggest. Rather, carriers should conform to my needs even if it ends up costing them.

/silly mentality

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[Doulandroid]

When companies review profit margins and inventory actuarial reports, that re-prices services and goods sold equations. Successful companies realize that the customer's needs must be met, or company goes away. Trend market flow dictates many companies in high fluctuations areas. Technology can be a cruel mistress for classically trained business majors. Dot coms in the 90s, myspace, yahoo, anyone still getting free AOL cd's? Seachange in consumer vs corperate policy happens, have you seen credit card offers lately?


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[Doulandroid]

Using the steak metaphor, I go to my restaurant pay for my $60 unlimited steak. I get to eat all the steak I want(unlimited data). Wine however, is not unlimited, it is a seperate fee. Rooted tether is essentially bringing adult beverages in, without paying a corkage fee. I understand that, but rooting to me is like someone ordering the $60 steak, period. I would not order Kobe beef, well done and pour ketchup and maple syrup over it, but if you buy the steak, wear it as a hat for all I care. Verizon doesn't care if i have CM7 bacon all over my phone, they just think it's crass.

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[czerdrill]

Using the steak metaphor, I go to my restaurant pay for my $60 unlimited steak. I get to eat all the steak I want(unlimited data). Wine however, is not unlimited, it is a seperate fee. Rooted tether is essentially bringing adult beverages in, without paying a corkage fee. I understand that, but rooting to me is like someone ordering the $60 steak, period. I would not order Kobe beef, well done and pour ketchup and maple syrup over it, but if you buy the steak, wear it as a hat for all I care. Verizon doesn't care if i have CM7 bacon all over my phone, they just think it's crass.

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Yeah we discussed the verizon doesn't care if you root thing already. Try to keep up...you can root all you want. Verizon doesn't care and you won't be sentenced to three consecutive life sentences if you root. but your warranty is voided and the only thing you can do is whine about it.

Like I always say, if anyone here wants to use the "it's my phone I can do what I want" line to an actual verizon employee instead of whining on here, please tape that phone call. That would be comedy gold.

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