Android is losing

[WugFresh]

Definitely not and I do understand what you're saying, but they will fare better reducing fragmentation. Say having a large batch of Froyo based devices and then a new batch of Gingerbread. A new and an old aren't bad, but having three going on four can be a nightmare, at least for developers, They have no idea what market to design apos for, so a much smaller potential buying base. This makes it harder to attract and retain developers. I understand what y'all are saying, but I am also looking at it from a business perspective.

I understand what your saying and I agree with you, I am just trying to be a realist and ask how you would actually go about implementing that idea... the only way that I can fathom it happening would be to design a way to force hardware extinction (as a means to also force os extinction); however the fact of the matter is that they already have figured a way to do that and that's by locking the bootloader... but no one wants that... so how do you propose they only keep two android releases in circulation... hault development.. ? lol.


{{ WugFresh }}

Just unlock the bootloader in my opinion, if the phone has the hardware to run it then let it but if not then it doesnt get updated. Not this only get one or 2 updates crap.... On top of this get devs to stop supporting older versions, this will either force them to upgrade or theyll have to make do with what is already released....

Sent from my Fissioned D2G

Agreed, but like I said before it really comes down to making new hardware affordable and worth it, otherwise development on old platforms will continue. You can't force devs to stop supporting devices that lots of people are still using... you know? Thats why fruit company has a slight advantage, because they are in full control of all hardware releases, it makes their development much easier to maintain.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[rryyyaannn]

Itunes just did this to my ipod as well. Although it appears it deleted everything except for music purchased from itunes.

Since when is it "evil" for a company to make a profit?

Sent from my Droid 2 while driving. Thankyou Tapatalk

Its how they do it thats evil. Forcing people to use iTunes is pretty evil... IMO that is.

Its because of itunes, and itunes alone, that I'll never get an iphone/ipod.

Same with my girlfriend, and she was just about to buy an iphone when itunes deleted her entire ipod without so much as a confirmation box. She plugged it in to recharge and it deleted the whole thing.

If itunes alone wasn't bad enough, I hate having to go through the program to put any media on the device.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using DroidForums App

 

[WugFresh]

Itunes just did this to my ipod as well. Although it appears it deleted everything except for music purchased from itunes.

Its how they do it thats evil. Forcing people to use iTunes is pretty evil... IMO that is.

Its because of itunes, and itunes alone, that I'll never get an iphone/ipod.

Same with my girlfriend, and she was just about to buy an iphone when itunes deleted her entire ipod without so much as a confirmation box. She plugged it in to recharge and it deleted the whole thing.

If itunes alone wasn't bad enough, I hate having to go through the program to put any media on the device.

I'm sticking with android all the way, but for all you who are founding their opinions around the limitations and dislikes with iTunes, check out:
MediaMonkey
CopyTrans
SoundTaxi

I think your problems will be solved.

But who wants to buy technology built by a fruit company anyway.. lol!

{{ WugFresh }}

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[hookbill]

First I want to thank Jkhonea for doing such an excellent job of moderating on this thread. When I went to bed last night I felt certain there would be a "closed" sign hanging on the window so to speak. Next all of you guys have been tremendously respectful and articulate in this discussion.

I just want to touch briefly on the iTunes losing music issue. I think I mentioned earlier in the thread that I have 10 days worth of music stored, well let's say approximately 4,000 files. I'd be willing to bet that out of those 4000 files possibly 500 are actually purchased from iTunes. That would be a large number if it's true, I was strongly against DRM protection and would find many ways to get out of it or get rid of it.

Everything else I have are either my CD collection which started around 1986 and purchases I've made from Amazon.com. I've lost a lot of music from my teen years through my 20's and I've replace it with Amazon mp3. iTunes has done a great job of not only keeping these files. I've never once lost any music from iTunes.

I will say this however. I do believe that having an iMac does make using iTunes smoother and more cohesive. I do remember having some issues with music when I had Windows XP and running iTunes. Files sometimes did seem to get out of order but most of the time that was my own doing. Still there had to have been a reason I was going in there to mix those files up but I can't say that iTunes might not have caused me some grief back then.

But even back when I had windows I felt iTunes was better the Windows Media Player. That was a while back. Once I moved everything over to iTunes and the Mac and an app called "Dupe it" I never have had problems with it since.

I do hear what you're saying about wanting to take control of your own stuff and I understand. I'm not in that group of people but I respect your thoughts on the subject. I think if anything I'm a bit lazy and don't want to have things too complicated.

I've lost a lot of my interest in Android, doing the customization and just like when they would have hybrids for blackberries constantly updating I feel the same about custom ROMs. I think Android has a good idea and is meant for the type of person who is willing to spend a lot of time and energy in developing their phone. I'm just not one of those people.

But I am a person who does use Android and Mac products and I see how not only they work but can be used to work together and I find that absolutely amazing. Just a simple thing like Kindle, reading from my iPad then on my Droid while I'm at the doctors office waiting blows me away. 2 totally different platforms starting out on even another different platform working as one. It's marvelous.

And the competition will never hurt either Apple or Android. They will only work to make things even better. For all of us.

 

[13th angel]

Im with Hook on that one..... i have probably 20 gb of music imported into my itunes library and ive never had any problems with it losing music or it deleting my whole library unless i did it on purpose (i tend to move things around for better organization so sometimes ill have to reimport large portion of my library). I also agree that itunes is better than wmp. Ive always had trouble out of wmp, its pretty much been the itunes that some people are saying they have. Its deleted my library, deleted the music off my computer, and for some reason anything i try to watch on my laptop using it is choppy and it lags behind after 5-10 minutes without fail. Overall it comes down to personal preference. Where one person may like apple better because of certain things, there will always be someone that dislikes it because of that feature. Thats why theres alternative, if you dont like something then dont get it. I jokingly call the iphone the "iphail" but its a really solid device and theres no real reason to bash it (admitted the lack of flash is kinda stupid...).

Sent from my Fissioned D2G

 

[hookbill]

Im with Hook on that one..... i have probably 20 gb of music imported into my itunes library and ive never had any problems with it losing music or it deleting my whole library unless i did it on purpose (i tend to move things around for better organization so sometimes ill have to reimport large portion of my library). I also agree that itunes is better than wmp. Ive always had trouble out of wmp, its pretty much been the itunes that some people are saying they have. Its deleted my library, deleted the music off my computer, and for some reason anything i try to watch on my laptop using it is choppy and it lags behind after 5-10 minutes without fail. Overall it comes down to personal preference. Where one person may like apple better because of certain things, there will always be someone that dislikes it because of that feature. Thats why theres alternative, if you dont like something then dont get it. I jokingly call the iphone the "iphail" but its a really solid device and theres no real reason to bash it (admitted the lack of flash is kinda stupid...).

Sent from my Fissioned D2G

Actually the lack of Flash you can put right on Steve Jobs. But he does have a solid reasoning for it. Sort of.

Jobs has long stated that the problem with Flash is it's vulnerability to attacks. I think this is probably true as most of you know there seems to be a new version of flash coming out every few weeks for both phone, pc, and mac.

It's the "and Mac" part that I struggle a bit with. He will put it on the iMac but on anything else he won't. So that's a bit contradictory.

Anyway that's suppose to be the reason, that and I believe he's mentioned that there is another technology involved that will replace Flash.

 

[ilikemoneygreen]

Im with Hook on that one..... i have probably 20 gb of music imported into my itunes library and ive never had any problems with it losing music or it deleting my whole library unless i did it on purpose (i tend to move things around for better organization so sometimes ill have to reimport large portion of my library). I also agree that itunes is better than wmp. Ive always had trouble out of wmp, its pretty much been the itunes that some people are saying they have. Its deleted my library, deleted the music off my computer, and for some reason anything i try to watch on my laptop using it is choppy and it lags behind after 5-10 minutes without fail. Overall it comes down to personal preference. Where one person may like apple better because of certain things, there will always be someone that dislikes it because of that feature. Thats why theres alternative, if you dont like something then dont get it. I jokingly call the iphone the "iphail" but its a really solid device and theres no real reason to bash it (admitted the lack of flash is kinda stupid...).

Sent from my Fissioned D2G

Actually the lack of Flash you can put right on Steve Jobs. But he does have a solid reasoning for it. Sort of.

Jobs has long stated that the problem with Flash is it's vulnerability to attacks. I think this is probably true as most of you know there seems to be a new version of flash coming out every few weeks for both phone, pc, and mac.

It's the "and Mac" part that I struggle a bit with. He will put it on the iMac but on anything else he won't. So that's a bit contradictory.

Anyway that's suppose to be the reason, that and I believe he's mentioned that there is another technology involved that will replace Flash.

I dont buy the reasons, I still think its a way for devs to side step him so he wont allow it. I want flash so my mom can play facebook games. We would probably have an iPad right now if Jobs bit the bullet and had flash like every popular pc in the world.

 

[WugFresh]

Again.... with the iTunes...I keep repeating myself. I guess this time I will describe what I was suggesting;
-MediaMonkey - the only music program I have found to be a good alternative to itunes; it works for syncing music (and playlists) on android and can also be used on ipods (and iWhatever)
-CopyTrans - rip any music off any ipod onto any computer
- SoundTaxi - strip DRM off of any music file and convert it to an mp3

@hook
I rarely support anything that fruit company (apple) does in any conversation (call me a hater... lol), but there is a very good reason why jobs opposes flash; he honestly is right. Flash poses a major security threat from two directions, the first is through flash itself (its very complex and would be impossible for me to explain in lamens terms...look it up or take my word for it ) and the other is through exploiting the "update flash pluggin"; basically a user unknowingly visits a malicious website with video content, the user tries to play the video content and is prompted with an 'update your video pluggin' notification, disguised as flash, the user carelessly downloads, installs and authenticates the malicious pluggin, and the next thing they know they are being charged premium text messages without notice. This exploit has already been utilized on android users who received a message via facebook which linked them "video content".

What should be done (and what Jobs is advocating) is browsers which support full html5 capabilities. Its much safer and offers the same (if not better) functionality. Full web applications can be coded in html5.

The problem is that Jobs literally thinks he can kill flash. He wants to make it extinct. However its ridiculous since half the web is built in flash. What needs to be done is flash videos are somehow automatically loaded into an html5 shell. That would solve the problem and make us all safer.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[DFSBMC]

I've been playing with the iPhone quite a bit lately and I'm still not all warm and fuzzy about it. It does some cool things, but I just don't know if I would pick it over the Droid.

 

[DFSBMC]

What needs to be done is flash videos are somehow automatically loaded into an html5 shell. That would solve the problem and make us all safer.

{{ WugFresh }}

What also needs to be done is for the FTC to take an active interest in these bastards that own companies with an actual front door that use these deceptive practices. Maybe if a handful of them go up the river for several years it might make a admirable dent in at least some of it.

 

[WugFresh]

Nah. You will never stop exploits from being exploited through fear mongoring or punitive means, not a bad idea because they deserve it... but the only true measure is prevention and that involves improved technology. But again, if it can be built it can be broken.... cat and mouse game until the end. Just the way it is... "regulation" is just another way of saying "another fence to hop" lol.

...servers in sweeden or international waters... the internet will always prevail.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[ilikemoneygreen]

Again.... with the iTunes...I keep repeating myself. I guess this time I will describe what I was suggesting;
-MediaMonkey - the only music program I have found to be a good alternative to itunes; it works for syncing music (and playlists) on android and can also be used on ipods (and iWhatever)
-CopyTrans - rip any music off any ipod onto any computer
- SoundTaxi - strip DRM off of any music file and convert it to an mp3

@hook
I rarely support anything that fruit company (apple) does in any conversation (call me a hater... lol), but there is a very good reason why jobs opposes flash; he honestly is right. Flash poses a major security threat from two directions, the first is through flash itself (its very complex and would be impossible for me to explain in lamens terms...look it up or take my word for it ) and the other is through exploiting the "update flash pluggin"; basically a user unknowingly visits a malicious website with video content, the user tries to play the video content and is prompted with an 'update your video pluggin' notification, disguised as flash, the user carelessly downloads, installs and authenticates the malicious pluggin, and the next thing they know they are being charged premium text messages without notice. This exploit has already been utilized on android users who received a message via facebook which linked them "video content".

What should be done (and what Jobs is advocating) is browsers which support full html5 capabilities. Its much safer and offers the same (if not better) functionality. Full web applications can be coded in html5.

The problem is that Jobs literally thinks he can kill flash. He wants to make it extinct. However its ridiculous since half the web is built in flash. What needs to be done is flash videos are somehow automatically loaded into an html5 shell. That would solve the problem and make us all safer.

{{ WugFresh }}

That would be cool. iOS app that has a server that would auto put flash into html 5. I wish. :biggrin: Excellent idea. Would be more efficient for everyone to. And i have to ask, why do you keep repeating the itunes alternatives? I dont see anyone asking about them... im sure they can scroll up to....Is it because hook is talking about itunes? Doesnt really look like hes looking for an alternative. Sorry for side thought. Back on topic i think this idea needs to get going so we can have some good flash support on iOS. Btw, does html 5 do games like flash?

 

[DFSBMC]

Maybe if a handful of them go up the river for several years it might make a admirable dent in at least some of it.

Ok, perhaps if I revamp this to say maybe if a handful of them get the living hell beat out of them by a group of pissed off subscribers...

 

[ilikemoneygreen]

DFS, Lets not get this thread locked. :frown: Filter the Language a tad.... Fam Freindly. Wugfresh is right about the cat and mouse game til the end too, haha, until we are all controlled by robots that is. Then were done for.:icon_eek:

 

[WugFresh]

Maybe if a handful of them go up the river for several years it might make a admirable dent in at least some of it.

Ok, perhaps if I revamp this to say maybe if a handful of them get the living hell beat out of them by a group of pissed off subscribers...

Lmfao, I will sign that bill.

@ilikemymoneygreen
I actually picture it done directly through the browser, no extra app. Yes HTML5 does everything flash does and more efficiently. You can build full web applications and games... heck.. you could build an entire os.

I keep bringing it up, because people kept talking about losing their media.. and that has everything to do with DRM, I was trying to explain that you can easily strip DRM from any media, you can rip any songs off of any ipod, and there are decent alternatives if you want to forego messing with itunes all together. I personally hate iTunes because it runs four background processes at all times on Windows, one of which is bonjure.exe and for a company who is all about security you would think they would avoid using a service that can be exploited with some clever hackary. Also, I like pitching MediaMonkey because it syncs playlists on android better than any silly app on the market... just thought people should know. I will stop mentioning it. Lol.

{{ WugFresh }}