Android: The new king of the mobile castle

[kodiak799]

If the user goes in and says "i want an iphone"no rep is gonna say try lte instead

Why wouldn't they? You don't seem to grasp that demonstrating LTE isn't talking someone out of a sale. VZW doesn't care if you buy Android or IPhone, but they do want the world to know how crazy fast LTE is. Word-of-mouth is powerful, and LTE is the flagship service that sets VZW apart. The marching orders will be clear: no one leaves that store without knowing what LTE is all about.

And at this point, most new buyers have been fence sitters who are going to browse and ask questions because they haven't been swept up in either the IPhone or the smartphone craze. LTE is the "wow" factor. Between LTE and everything else I doubt IPhone captures many of those potential buyers.

 

[czerdrill]

i tend to disagree with that assessment. you think the "we've got a map for that" ad campaign was ruthless, just wait until VZW has the iPhone! if VZW just wants to sell the service, what better way to go after AT&T than to point out that VZW also has at&t's primary phone?!

i think it's going to be tricky to push the iphone, and push LTE at the same time. but, given the ad campaigns in recent memory, i imagine they'll figure it out...

VZW won't have to push the IPhone at all. Jobs and Apple will take care of that. And most likely VZW stores won't be selling the IPhone.

But, to the point, there's nothing tricky about pushing LTE and the IPhone. VZW isn't going to "push" the IPhone, they are pushing their services. You want an Iphone, great we got that. You want super fast data? Great, we got that, too.

VZW has zero incentive to convince someone to buy IPhone or Android. The speed of LTE is also their biggest draw. When a potential customer walks thru the door they aren't going to say "would you like the IPhone", they're going to show you how blazing fast LTE is. Oh, sorry, IPhone isn't LTE. They're only interest is to sell you the data service, and LTE is the biggest hook out there.

The new Android phones running LTE will have the 'wow" factor. IPhone won't have that until it has an LTE capable device on VZW.

So Verizon is going to get the iPhone and not push it at all? They're just going to say "Steve, go for it!" and hand off the advertising to Jobs? I mean what are you saying? It's getting more and more ridiculous.

and the speed of LTE is their biggest draw? Come on man, I would be willing to bet that 80% of verizon customers don't even know what the heck LTE is. Who are you kidding, really? People on droidforums even have barely any info on LTE and you're telling me that those who want an iphone and are dead set on an iphone are going to be swayed into getting an android phone because of LTE? LTE that is going to be limited initially and only available on very few new unheard of phones? I don't get where you're getting these ideas from but ok.

 

[czerdrill]

If the user goes in and says "i want an iphone"no rep is gonna say try lte instead

Why wouldn't they? You don't seem to grasp that demonstrating LTE isn't talking someone out of a sale. VZW doesn't care if you buy Android or IPhone, but they do want the world to know how crazy fast LTE is. Word-of-mouth is powerful, and LTE is the flagship service that sets VZW apart. The marching orders will be clear: no one leaves that store without knowing what LTE is all about.

And at this point, most new buyers have been fence sitters who are going to browse and ask questions because they haven't been swept up in either the IPhone or the smartphone craze. LTE is the "wow" factor. Between LTE and everything else I doubt IPhone captures many of those potential buyers.

they will let the world know about LTE after the iPhone hooplah dies down. Not during. It would be completely counterproductive to their end goal which is high sale numbers (of their service...i understand that...you don't have to keep telling me that). To push two wholly different products simultaneously as big draws would make no sense. and don't tell me that the iphone (and the service that comes with it) wont be a big draw.

from a business perspective it makes zero sense to finally get the iphone and then tell people about LTE with the same gusto. It becomes watered down when you do that. anyone would see that.

if someone advertises something as amazing (which they will when they get the iphone), and you go into the store and once there they start telling you about how amazing something else is, you're doing it wrong. it makes ZERO sense to do something like that.

There are no "new" buyers who havent been swept up in the iPhone craze. Please don't tell me that Timmy is going to come in having never heard of the iPhone or the hooplah surrounding it. The iPhone sells cuz of hype and marketing. everyone and their mother and their dog knows what an iphone is. No new customer is going to walk in bewildered and say "iPhone?? what's that?? haven't heard much about it"

Trust me, the ENTIRE world is going to know how fast LTE is. But it's not going to know two days after Verizon gets the iPhone.

 

[czerdrill]

What you are seeing is twenty android devices barely outselling one ios device. How you fail to see that if the baffling part.

I'm sorry, when does IOS become available on more than 1 device? You're argument is a non-starter. It will be the same device on a different carrier, no different than internationally where Android is taking chunks of market share.

Again, given the design of the IPhone is about the best out there, the fact that Android is outselling it, in fact, indicates IOS isn't as hot as you're making it out to be. The sales trends indicate hardware matters and/or many buyers consider Android a better OS because internationally where carriers offer a choice of the two IPhone is losing.

I'm confused. I'm saying the market "share" of android is not all that it seems to be because it's available on more than one device and still barely outsells an os that's only on one device. You keep saying "when will iOs be on more then one device" but I don't get the relevance of that. If iOs ever was on more then one device, Android's plight would be even worse haha...you're telling me that if Motorola or HTC were able to develop an iOS phone, it wouldn't outsell an android phone by the same company? Stop kidding yourself.

Of course hardware matters. Hardware is what's making android outsell the iPhone internationally. But again...barely outselling. Across 20 different devices

If I'm selling a million of one device which doesn't offer the user all the same features/freedoms as your devices, and you're selling 1.5 million of 20 devices combined, I'm pretty sure I'm the better salesman...

 

[kodiak799]

Its the only thing that could make any sense. There's only three options: push them together, push them separately, or don't push them at all. Clearly the second option option is the only option. Does anyone really believe they're going to get an iphone and then try to sell lte?? Makes no sense from a business perspective, from a financial perspective and a common sense perspective.

VZW doesn't make money on phones. There's not this huge market that's just been waiting for a VZW IPhone (well, outside of the ones who already have one on AT&T). Apple and the media will do enough marketing for them, and certainly the AT&T people waiting to switch won't need a big announcement.

But LTE is the game changer, that's what's going to grow the market exponentially. That will bring people into the stores. If they want an IPhone, fine.

The main reason you've seen so many Droid commercials is VZW didn't have a worthwhile smartphone, but there's absolutely no reason VZW would favor IPhone over Droid, doesn't matter to them. Those commercials are going to be LTE very soon, just like you see Sprint pumping "faster 4G" all the time in their commercials.

Sure, VZW is happy to get IPhone and sell excess 3G capacity. But otherwise Big Red doesn't care. For such a huge can't miss success, the economics certainly weren't there years ago when they passed on the IPhone the first time.

 

[czerdrill]

Its the only thing that could make any sense. There's only three options: push them together, push them separately, or don't push them at all. Clearly the second option option is the only option. Does anyone really believe they're going to get an iphone and then try to sell lte?? Makes no sense from a business perspective, from a financial perspective and a common sense perspective.

VZW doesn't make money on phones. There's not this huge market that's just been waiting for a VZW IPhone (well, outside of the ones who already have one on AT&T). Apple and the media will do enough marketing for them, and certainly the AT&T people waiting to switch won't need a big announcement.

But LTE is the game changer, that's what's going to grow the market exponentially. That will bring people into the stores. If they want an IPhone, fine.

The main reason you've seen so many Droid commercials is VZW didn't have a worthwhile smartphone, but there's absolutely no reason VZW would favor IPhone over Droid, doesn't matter to them. Those commercials are going to be LTE very soon, just like you see Sprint pumping "faster 4G" all the time in their commercials.

Sure, VZW is happy to get IPhone and sell excess 3G capacity. But otherwise Big Red doesn't care. For such a huge can't miss success, the economics certainly weren't there years ago when they passed on the IPhone the first time.

Your second sentence made me realize this is a completely pointless argument. To deny that there is a huge market for the iphone makes no sense. At all.

 

[kodiak799]

Of course hardware matters. Hardware is what's making android outsell the iPhone internationally. But again...barely outselling. Across 20 different devices

If I'm selling a million of one device which doesn't offer the user all the same features/freedoms as your devices, and you're selling 1.5 million of 20 devices combined, I'm pretty sure I'm the better salesman...

What's your point? Apple isn't open and isn't going to be open any time soon, so claiming IOS would outsell Android if it were on more devices is a non-starter. Part of IPhone's success - branding success - is the exclusivity it's created by NOT being on a bunch of devices. Controlling the user experience from purchase is critical to their strategy. Plus, IPhone had a good, solid headstart. But competition catches up and surpasses. Happens all the time. And it's happened to Apple before.

But isn't part of the depth of options because of the openeness of Android? You seem to be missing that point. As great as the you think the IPhone is, Android is outselling it. And, again, the openness of Android has nothing to do with the mfrs being able to roll out superior hardware? The hardware is better, the aesthetics not so much....Differences in devices are pretty marginal - you're grossly overrating how non-fanboys value IOS vs. Android.

 

[sranger]

Dragon = iphone fan boy # 1

In my opinion, Verizon and the phone manufactures WILL KILL Android with their locked down systems and Crapware. Mark my words this will happen.....

Android will die a death s quick as it's rise Because:

1) No Netflix App on Android...( No I do not think an App will happen any time soon )

2) No Zinio reader app. ( Points 1 & 2 Specifically point out that most good apps hit the iPhone several months to a year ( if ever ) before they hit Android phones. )

3) In the last Froyo update Google broke Pandora and most other streaming music sites. It also broke the Infrastructure Wifi logon that worked fine in 2.1. In other words, each Google release is full of MAJOR and very annoying bugs and it takes many months for them to be fixed.( If Ever )

4) It is difficult and time consuming to get TV Shows and Movies on the Android phones....( I know how to do it and it is a pain in the rear.... ) The iTunes store is far more effective...

5) Verizon is slowly loading it's crapware on ever new phone. Soon, they will replace the few great Android apps Google Search/Maps/Navigation with their per month fee based Crapware... I Suspect that they will also kill the Google App Store and replace it with their own...

6) The phone manufactures are going to fragment Android to the point where it will be nearly impossible to develop apps that work across the majority of the platform.

7) Sooner or later Google is going to lose interest in Android after the Phone manufactures and carriers block Google's search and Advertising revenue....

8) Even after all of this time the camera app for the Android platform still sux. It lockups and misbehaves most of the time and you miss many good photo opportunities. ( No custom ROM seems to make the camera app behave )

9) The phone manufactures are locking down the phones more and more. Soon rooting and custom ROMs will be a thing of the past... The ONLY thing that has kept me from smashing my Droid and breaking my contract is the custom ROM development community. They have fixed so many GOOGLE bugs I have lost count...

10) Sooner or later Apple is going to release the iPhone on other networks and people like me who are fed up with Android's bugs will switch just to get the phone to work properly most of the time....

I know this is an Adroid site, I just call them as I see them....

 

[kodiak799]

Your second sentence made me realize this is a completely pointless argument. To deny that there is a huge market for the iphone makes no sense. At all.

Why does it make no sense? IPhone has been out for years. Android has been available on VZW for over a year. I don't consider your contention that there are a hoard of users out there not just craving a smartphone, but a VZW IPhone plausible. You're claiming there's this huge market of people desperate for a smartphone, but not desperate enough to get Android, and desperate for an IPhone, but not desperate enough to tolerate AT&T. That sounds like a pretty small market to me. And then you're assuming the better Android hardware won't appeal to them, and that LTE won't appeal to them. Some pretty dubious assumptions on your part.

LTE is going to be a much bigger boost to VZW smartphone sales than the IPhone (outside of AT&T switchers). You can take that to the bank.

 

[czerdrill]

Of course hardware matters. Hardware is what's making android outsell the iPhone internationally. But again...barely outselling. Across 20 different devices

If I'm selling a million of one device which doesn't offer the user all the same features/freedoms as your devices, and you're selling 1.5 million of 20 devices combined, I'm pretty sure I'm the better salesman...

What's your point? Apple isn't open and isn't going to be open any time soon, so claiming IOS would outsell Android if it were on more devices is a non-starter. Part of IPhone's success - branding success - is the exclusivity it's created by NOT being on a bunch of devices. Controlling the user experience from purchase is critical to their strategy. Plus, IPhone had a good, solid headstart. But competition catches up and surpasses. Happens all the time. And it's happened to Apple before.

But isn't part of the depth of options because of the openeness of Android? You seem to be missing that point. As great as the you think the IPhone is, Android is outselling it. And, again, the openness of Android has nothing to do with the mfrs being able to roll out superior hardware? The hardware is better, the aesthetics not so much....Differences in devices are pretty marginal - you're grossly overrating how non-fanboys value IOS vs. Android.

My point (what is this the thirtieth time) is if a closed source proprietary os on one network can outsell all the android devices in the US and be barely outsold worldwide, the android "growth" is not all that impressive. Android sells so much because of its availability (or lack thereof of ios), ios sells because it is an amazing piece of software which was marketed like no other. No one who bought an iphone bought it because they didn't have a choice to buy android. Plenty of people bought android because they didn't have the choice to buy iOS

 

[czerdrill]

This has been going on too long..I'll wait for the iphone to get here haha...then we can have more concrete discussions.

 

[kodiak799]

Trust me, the ENTIRE world is going to know how fast LTE is. But it's not going to know two days after Verizon gets the iPhone.

And yet, VZW is already marketing LTE. I've gotten emails, it's on their website. There have been press releases. You need to tell them to put the kaibosh on that before they get their mileage out of IPhone!

LTE is going to grow the market. It creates buzz. It builds interest for smartphones. You seem to be missing that. It's all about pulling customers into the store. What you are missing is that a potential IPhone buyer still chooses between AT&T and VZW, and highlighting LTE is going to emphasize superior service. The VZW IPhone is not differentiated from AT&T's, and that's why you'll see a lot more of LTE in the marketing. VZW is the better network because they have LTE, and if you want an IPhone you want the better network (eventhough it's not LTE, but maybe someday).

Sure, they'll market the IPhone, but no more than they do with other product releases. That they are going to significantly alter an LTE marketing campaign years in the making and for which they've invested BILLIONS is just foolish.

 

[czerdrill]

Dragon = iphone fan boy # 1

In my opinion, Verizon and the phone manufactures WILL KILL Android with their locked down systems and Crapware. Mark my words this will happen.....

Android will die a death s quick as it's rise Because:

1) No Netflix App on Android...( No I do not think an App will happen any time soon )

2) No Zinio reader app. ( Points 1 & 2 Specifically point out that most good apps hit the iPhone several months to a year ( if ever ) before they hit Android phones. )

3) In the last Froyo update Google broke Pandora and most other streaming music sites. It also broke the Infrastructure Wifi logon that worked fine in 2.1. In other words, each Google release is full of MAJOR and very annoying bugs and it takes many months for them to be fixed.( If Ever )

4) It is difficult and time consuming to get TV Shows and Movies on the Android phones....( I know how to do it and it is a pain in the rear.... ) The iTunes store is far more effective...

5) Verizon is slowly loading it's crapware on ever new phone. Soon, they will replace the few great Android apps Google Search/Maps/Navigation with their per month fee based Crapware... I Suspect that they will also kill the Google App Store and replace it with their own...

6) The phone manufactures are going to fragment Android to the point where it will be nearly impossible to develop apps that work across the majority of the platform.

7) Sooner or later Google is going to lose interest in Android after the Phone manufactures and carriers block Google's search and Advertising revenue....

8) Even after all of this time the camera app for the Android platform still sux. It lockups and misbehaves most of the time and you miss many good photo opportunities. ( No custom ROM seems to make the camera app behave )

9) The phone manufactures are locking down the phones more and more. Soon rooting and custom ROMs will be a thing of the past... The ONLY thing that has kept me from smashing my Droid and breaking my contract is the custom ROM development community. They have fixed so many GOOGLE bugs I have lost count...

10) Sooner or later Apple is going to release the iPhone on other networks and people like me who are fed up with Android's bugs will switch just to get the phone to work properly most of the time....

I know this is an Adroid site, I just call them as I see them....

I agree with 1,2,4,5,6,9 and 10 haha...the other ones I really can't say I agree or disagree because I don't know much about those things or haven't had those problems.

And youre right...iTunes integration is another HUGE reason people will choose iPhone. The ease of just downloading directly to your phone from a dedicated service is huge. iOS is just the more polished software and that's why it sells the way it does.

I'm all about open source and Linux, and making a phone truly yours, that's why I won't be switching to iPhone (in fact I really don't have plans to get rid of my D1 anytime soon). But the locked bootloaders and crapware also will turn people off to android devices as well. sure iphone is pretty restricted and locked down as well, but with android you almost have to root to unlock the true potential of the device...with iOS, jailbreaking definitely helps but a stock iphone blows a lot of current stock android devices out of the water in terms of functionality, usability and software stability and all around aesthetics.

i still don't think android is just going to disappear into nothing, because its an amazing OS and the one I'll be using from here on out. but it's not going to be a runaway train that leaves iOS in the dust and Jobs scratching his head wondering what went wrong.

 

[kodiak799]

My point (what is this the thirtieth time) is if a closed source proprietary os on one network can outsell all the android devices in the US and be barely outsold worldwide, the android "growth" is not all that impressive. Android sells so much because of its availability (or lack thereof of ios), ios sells because it is an amazing piece of software which was marketed like no other. No one who bought an iphone bought it because they didn't have a choice to buy android. Plenty of people bought android because they didn't have the choice to buy iOS

Yet, Android's growth in a little over a year is remarkable. And for years, there was no other choice than IPhone, and it's pretty obvious there are switching costs for users. With 80% of purchases upgrades, I can just as easily say that IPhone's growth isn't nearly as impressive as Android, even if you want to adjust for 20 different devices. Those people choosing Android over IOS you mention aren't doing so because they're ignoring a superior product in IOS.

The pretty obvious fact is that smartphones are quickly becoming commoditized and IPhone is now just one of many good smartphones. All the sales data and trends for NEW smartphone users support that IPhone is one of several good devices that don't have a significant edge over one another.

 

[czerdrill]

Trust me, the ENTIRE world is going to know how fast LTE is. But it's not going to know two days after Verizon gets the iPhone.

And yet, VZW is already marketing LTE. I've gotten emails, it's on their website. There have been press releases. You need to tell them to put the kaibosh on that before they get their mileage out of IPhone!

LTE is going to grow the market. It creates buzz. It builds interest for smartphones. You seem to be missing that. It's all about pulling customers into the store. What you are missing is that a potential IPhone buyer still chooses between AT&T and VZW, and highlighting LTE is going to emphasize superior service. The VZW IPhone is not differentiated from AT&T's, and that's why you'll see a lot more of LTE in the marketing. VZW is the better network because they have LTE, and if you want an IPhone you want the better network (eventhough it's not LTE, but maybe someday).

Sure, they'll market the IPhone, but no more than they do with other product releases. That they are going to significantly alter an LTE marketing campaign years in the making and for which they've invested BILLIONS is just foolish.

At some point, logic would tell us that if VZW gets an iphone, that eventually we'd have a 4G iPhone. Do 4G android devices outsell a 4G iPhone? Or does iOS take the lead again? If not, why? What would make someone choose a 4G android device over a 4G Iphone? I can't think of anything, can you? Don't mention openness because again, the people who actually root, edit their systems, overclock, theme or do anything else that takes advantage of this "openness" are an insignificant number of users. Plus with all the locking down that's being done, android is going to just become "open" by name and not by function.

They don't have to alter any LTE campaign. Why would they? They've spent money on it. But to say that they're not going to have a ridiculous campaign for a VZW iPhone is just plain denial. They advertise their Droid line as the best thing since sliced bread. You really think they're not going to go above and beyond that with an iPhone? That it'll be advertised but not more so then the Droid line? Seriously, do you really think that? Don't worry their LTE campaign is safe. It's not going to disappear and Big Red is not going to sit in a board room and lament about the millions they wasted on it.