Android: The new king of the mobile castle

[kodiak799]

At some point, logic would tell us that if VZW gets an iphone, that eventually we'd have a 4G iPhone. Do 4G android devices outsell a 4G iPhone? Or does iOS take the lead again? If not, why? What would make someone choose a 4G android device over a 4G Iphone? I can't think of anything, can you? Don't mention openness because again, the people who actually root, edit their systems, overclock, theme or do anything else that takes advantage of this "openness" are an insignificant number of users. Plus with all the locking down that's being done, android is going to just become "open" by name and not by function.

They don't have to alter any LTE campaign. Why would they? They've spent money on it. But to say that they're not going to have a ridiculous campaign for a VZW iPhone is just plain denial. They advertise their Droid line as the best thing since sliced bread. You really think they're not going to go above and beyond that with an iPhone? That it'll be advertised but not more so then the Droid line? Seriously, do you really think that? Don't worry their LTE campaign is safe. It's not going to disappear and Big Red is not going to sit in a board room and lament about the millions they wasted on it.

Sure, VZW will eventually get a 4G IPhone. But Android has other advantages, "open" doesn't just refer to rooting. Some people love widgets. Some people love alternate home launchers and customizing their layout. Like I said, these phones are becoming commodities. I don't see IPhone as superior to Android at all, and vice versa. It's going to ultimately be one of a strong line-up of phones.

Sure, they'll market IPhone just like anything else. But you're ignoring how much more Android needed. VZW had to basically create the Android market in the US. Everyone knows what an IPhone is. Everyone is going to know VZW has the IPhone. They're going to differentiate themselves from other CARRIERS by marketing the beejezus out of LTE. I mean, what do you see Sprint doing in their commercials? They piggyback off of VZW's android marketing and promote their 4G.

I realize this may be hard for you to grasp, but MOST of the population is not enamored with Apple & IPhone - millions of customers out there on VZW and AT&T with no smartphone. Many of them would be indifferent and most will shop on specs and price (again, just look at Mac's % of the market). That VZW is going to push Android or LTE aside is ridiculous. They're not going to ignore that huge segment of people at risk of going to Sprint or AT&T or someone else, or sitting on the fence hemming and hawing over whether they need a smartphone (that's where LTE is going to grow the market exponentially). Sprint, in particular, has a headstart with 4G and VZW has lost customers to that.

 

[czerdrill]

Clearly we're talking about people who own or plan to own smartphones...not those who don't have or don't want one.

Like I mentioned I had widgets before I rooted and I know there's no way I'd be happy with my d1 If I didn't overclock it. Again people want ease of use, stability and functionality first. I highly doubt widgets will sway the user...itunes integration trumps widgets...easily.

You seem to think that I'm saying lte is going to be ignored. I'm not. Please read before commenting.

 

[kodiak799]

You really think they're not going to go above and beyond that with an iPhone? That it'll be advertised but not more so then the Droid line? Seriously, do you really think that? Don't worry their LTE campaign is safe. It's not going to disappear and Big Red is not going to sit in a board room and lament about the millions they wasted on it.

Really? First you say it makes no sense and they'd never push LTE while pushing IPhone, and now you're saying they don't have to alter it?

They aren't going to invest the same money on the IPhone campaign as Droid simply because they don't have to, and more directly it's diminishing returns on the investment. Everyone knows the IPhone. Most of the population had never heard of Droid or Android. If people want an IPhone, you don't have to do much other than tell them VZW has it now. Why they should buy it from VZW is where the LTE comes in. I'd expect an IPhone LTE device to get more promotion than 3G since AT&T will be behind the curve there. Who knows, maybe in the future they squeeze value from their excess 3G capacity by offering discounted plans for 3G IPhones taking whatever remaining AT&T customers are left.

I'm sure their mfr agreements also have some stipulations about how much VZW spends to promote the phones, and in relation to competing phones they carry.

 

[kodiak799]

Clearly we're talking about people who own or plan to own smartphones...not those who don't have or don't want one.

Like I mentioned I had widgets before I rooted and I know there's no way I'd be happy with my d1 If I didn't overclock it. Again people want ease of use, stability and functionality first. I highly doubt widgets will sway the user...itunes integration trumps widgets...easily.

You seem to think that I'm saying lte is going to be ignored. I'm not. Please read before commenting.

You've changed your tune on the LTE....You were acting before like VZW was going to drop everything and promote IPhone.

I'll bet money you don't see a lot of people switching from Android to IPhone. To many sunk investments. Most people I know and message boards (non-tech) I read both sides are completely satisfied. The only switching of significance we'll see are people from AT&T.

Agreed Android can be counterproductive with the ability and temptation to overload it with widgets and other stuff. Stock is not really that way, however.

ITunes is also overrated. Millions don't use it. I've never used it. I have a ton of MP3's and have no issue playing those on my Droid. It's easy to forget sometimes that the primary growth in the smartphone market at this point is people who use minimal data for email and light browsing, and those are people most likely to value widgets over itunes.

There's just not a huge mass of people out there chomping at the bit for a smartphone and waiting indefinitely for a VZW IPhone, it doesn't make sense. When people are looking at the market and market share, they aren't talking about stealing from each other, they're eyeing that huge segment who don't realize they need a smartphone yet. That's, again, where LTE is a huge deal for VZW. The easier, bigger nut is also RIM and it's corporate users - ITunes integration doesn't mean squat there.

 

[kodiak799]

Good discussion. It's just exciting watching how this market is evolving.

I think the more interesting question might be what VZW does with 3G. I wonder if they'll maintain that after LTE finishes roll out and offer a low tier plan, kind of like the mobile version of "economy" home broadband.

 

[czerdrill]

What? Please find where I said they were gonna abandon lte and only promote iphone. No one is changing their tune. I said that they would not be advertising lte at the same time as the iphone. You're misconstruing every thing I'm saying.

Millions don't use android either...telling me that says nothing...

I'm done btw...this is not entertaining anymore haha...why don't we just wait and see

 

[czerdrill]

Good discussion. It's just exciting watching how this market is evolving.

I think the more interesting question might be what VZW does with 3G. I wonder if they'll maintain that after LTE finishes roll out and offer a low tier plan, kind of like the mobile version of "economy" home broadband.

+1..we'll see what happens

 

[chaz.ring]

call me crazy but i HIGHLY doubt Verizon reps are going to push droids over iphones by using LTE as a selling point.

sure.... your crazy..... I've personally been installing their LTE network for the last year and a half.......

I doubt VZW is spending the MILLIONS of dollars that they are on the LTE technology just to let it fall of the needed list....lol.... seriously dude??:icon_eek:

 

[czerdrill]

call me crazy but i HIGHLY doubt Verizon reps are going to push droids over iphones by using LTE as a selling point.

sure.... your crazy..... I've personally been installing their LTE network for the last year and a half.......

I doubt VZW is spending the MILLIONS of dollars that they are on the LTE technology just to let it fall of the needed list....lol.... seriously dude??:icon_eek:

i'll let you go back and read what i said, and then we'll talk. I'll wait while you do that...

 

[Darkseider]

Trust me, the ENTIRE world is going to know how fast LTE is. But it's not going to know two days after Verizon gets the iPhone.

And yet, VZW is already marketing LTE. I've gotten emails, it's on their website. There have been press releases. You need to tell them to put the kaibosh on that before they get their mileage out of IPhone!

LTE is going to grow the market. It creates buzz. It builds interest for smartphones. You seem to be missing that. It's all about pulling customers into the store. What you are missing is that a potential IPhone buyer still chooses between AT&T and VZW, and highlighting LTE is going to emphasize superior service. The VZW IPhone is not differentiated from AT&T's, and that's why you'll see a lot more of LTE in the marketing. VZW is the better network because they have LTE, and if you want an IPhone you want the better network (eventhough it's not LTE, but maybe someday).

Sure, they'll market the IPhone, but no more than they do with other product releases. That they are going to significantly alter an LTE marketing campaign years in the making and for which they've invested BILLIONS is just foolish.

At some point, logic would tell us that if VZW gets an iphone, that eventually we'd have a 4G iPhone. Do 4G android devices outsell a 4G iPhone? Or does iOS take the lead again? If not, why? What would make someone choose a 4G android device over a 4G Iphone? I can't think of anything, can you? Don't mention openness because again, the people who actually root, edit their systems, overclock, theme or do anything else that takes advantage of this "openness" are an insignificant number of users. Plus with all the locking down that's being done, android is going to just become "open" by name and not by function.

They don't have to alter any LTE campaign. Why would they? They've spent money on it. But to say that they're not going to have a ridiculous campaign for a VZW iPhone is just plain denial. They advertise their Droid line as the best thing since sliced bread. You really think they're not going to go above and beyond that with an iPhone? That it'll be advertised but not more so then the Droid line? Seriously, do you really think that? Don't worry their LTE campaign is safe. It's not going to disappear and Big Red is not going to sit in a board room and lament about the millions they wasted on it.

To answer the question I bolded is quite simple. Choice. QWERTY slider, slate, 3.5", 3.7", 4.0" and 4.3" screens. Feature differences. Front facing camera, HD video recording, DLNA support, HDMI out, etc... These are things that the iPhone, regardless of network will not have, and that is CHOICE. To top it off you have excellent integration with Google's web services. I know people that chose the Aria over the Captivate for size. They are happy as a clam with the phones. I know folks who chose the Backflip over the others because it has a QWERTY. This again is the strength of Android and the devices it runs on. The same cannot be said of the iPhone which will be the SAME phone regardless of network. People like choice. It shows in the sales numbers and the explosive growth Android has had and will continue to have for the foreseeable future.

By this time next year Android may very gain the top spot. Simply due to the incredible devices that have come out and are coming out. Same cannot be said for the iPhone. Simply put the iPhone 5 will be overshadowed in terms of performance and features by the upcoming Tegra 2 Android superphones. Nevermind the devices that are to be released during Q3/Q4 next year.

 

[Darkseider]

What you are seeing is twenty android devices barely outselling one ios device. How you fail to see that if the baffling part.

I'm sorry, when does IOS become available on more than 1 device? You're argument is a non-starter. It will be the same device on a different carrier, no different than internationally where Android is taking chunks of market share.

Again, given the design of the IPhone is about the best out there, the fact that Android is outselling it, in fact, indicates IOS isn't as hot as you're making it out to be. The sales trends indicate hardware matters and/or many buyers consider Android a better OS because internationally where carriers offer a choice of the two IPhone is losing.

I'm confused. I'm saying the market "share" of android is not all that it seems to be because it's available on more than one device and still barely outsells an os that's only on one device. You keep saying "when will iOs be on more then one device" but I don't get the relevance of that. If iOs ever was on more then one device, Android's plight would be even worse haha...you're telling me that if Motorola or HTC were able to develop an iOS phone, it wouldn't outsell an android phone by the same company? Stop kidding yourself.

Of course hardware matters. Hardware is what's making android outsell the iPhone internationally. But again...barely outselling. Across 20 different devices

If I'm selling a million of one device which doesn't offer the user all the same features/freedoms as your devices, and you're selling 1.5 million of 20 devices combined, I'm pretty sure I'm the better salesman...

IF iOS were on devices made by Moto or HTC it would make ZERO difference. People who buy iPhones buy them because they are iPhones. It is a status symbol and a need to feel included and accepted by their peers. I can GUARANTEE that. Damned near EVERY person I know that has an iPhone and the people they know that have an iPhone have it simply because it is an iPhone. Operating system be damned. They just want the little Apple logo and the same look as their friends. This is an irrefutable fact. Do not argue it or challenge it. It's a hipsters' accessory. No different than the hot set of Versace shoes at fashion week.

 

[czerdrill]

i cant disagree with that, and choice is the reason i chose android an will remain with android forever. but i just dont see the average consumer caring about such things when its "vs the iphone". but again, we'll have to see. the damn phone has not even been announced yet and i've been arguing back and forth for the past 3 days haha...the only thing we can do is wait and see.

i do have a question though...why do people continue to say that it's going to be the same device no matter what? i'm not trying to be stupid, i'm asking because i truly just dont understand. has apple stated that the iphone "will never have a bigger screen" or will "never have a front facing camera" or will "never have an HDMI out"? Further, if the iphone comes to verizon there is no doubt at all that it'll be 4g capable eventually

i mean the ipod touch has a front facing camera...why can't the iphone get that one day? i don't get how people are just blindly assuming that the iphone is NEVER going to have any of these things? where are you getting that from? Seriously, if there is somewhere I'd like to read it, because I honestly wasn't aware that apple said they will never add features to the iphone hardware-wise.

like i said no one knows anything about the iphone on vzw. whether its coming, what it'll be like, whether it has any extra hardware or features, so where exactly are you getting this information from? assumptions i assume? odd, to try to pass off assumptions as knowledge, no? but again, just show me a link about apple discussing the iphone on vzw and how it will not have any improved hardware, and i'll shut up quick i promise.

 

[czerdrill]

I'm sorry, when does IOS become available on more than 1 device? You're argument is a non-starter. It will be the same device on a different carrier, no different than internationally where Android is taking chunks of market share.

Again, given the design of the IPhone is about the best out there, the fact that Android is outselling it, in fact, indicates IOS isn't as hot as you're making it out to be. The sales trends indicate hardware matters and/or many buyers consider Android a better OS because internationally where carriers offer a choice of the two IPhone is losing.

I'm confused. I'm saying the market "share" of android is not all that it seems to be because it's available on more than one device and still barely outsells an os that's only on one device. You keep saying "when will iOs be on more then one device" but I don't get the relevance of that. If iOs ever was on more then one device, Android's plight would be even worse haha...you're telling me that if Motorola or HTC were able to develop an iOS phone, it wouldn't outsell an android phone by the same company? Stop kidding yourself.

Of course hardware matters. Hardware is what's making android outsell the iPhone internationally. But again...barely outselling. Across 20 different devices

If I'm selling a million of one device which doesn't offer the user all the same features/freedoms as your devices, and you're selling 1.5 million of 20 devices combined, I'm pretty sure I'm the better salesman...

IF iOS were on devices made by Moto or HTC it would make ZERO difference. People who buy iPhones buy them because they are iPhones. It is a status symbol and a need to feel included and accepted by their peers. I can GUARANTEE that. Damned near EVERY person I know that has an iPhone and the people they know that have an iPhone have it simply because it is an iPhone. Operating system be damned. They just want the little Apple logo and the same look as their friends. This is an irrefutable fact. Do not argue it or challenge it. It's a hipsters' accessory. No different than the hot set of Versace shoes at fashion week.

What the? haha...what do you think i've been saying this ENTIRE time?? hahaa...this is like unreal that reading comprehension is this off, and i really think i'm the butt of a practical joke or something. OF COURSE people buy it because its an iphone. that's EXACTLY what i've been saying since the beginning. How many times do I have to say "the average consumer doesn't care"?? hahaa...i mean i'm literally laughing at loud at this. I just spent three pages saying this very thing and now you're agreeing with me and then telling me "do not argue it or challenge it"?? hahaa...this is hilarious.

 

[Darkseider]

i cant disagree with that, and choice is the reason i chose android an will remain with android forever. but i just dont see the average consumer caring about such things when its "vs the iphone". but again, we'll have to see. the damn phone has not even been announced yet and i've been arguing back and forth for the past 3 days haha...the only thing we can do is wait and see.

i do have a question though...why do people continue to say that it's going to be the same device no matter what? i'm not trying to be stupid, i'm asking because i truly just dont understand. has apple stated that the iphone "will never have a bigger screen" or will "never have a front facing camera" or will "never have an HDMI out"? Further, if the iphone comes to verizon there is no doubt at all that it'll be 4g capable eventually

i mean the ipod touch has a front facing camera...why can't the iphone get that one day? i don't get how people are just blindly assuming that the iphone is NEVER going to have any of these things? where are you getting that from? Seriously, if there is somewhere I'd like to read it, because I honestly wasn't aware that apple said they will never add features to the iphone hardware-wise.

like i said no one knows anything about the iphone on vzw. whether its coming, what it'll be like, whether it has any extra hardware or features, so where exactly are you getting this information from? assumptions i assume? odd, to try to pass off assumptions as knowledge, no? but again, just show me a link about apple discussing the iphone on vzw and how it will not have any improved hardware, and i'll shut up quick i promise.

Apple will NEVER release multiple hardware revisions. Sure the antenna will be CDMA but that's it. It will be identical in every way, shape and form to the existing phone. Not only that they won't release it mid-cycle. If you believe it is coming in 2011 then it will come the same time it comes to AT&T. This is how Apple works and keeps continuity in their product. There won't be different iPhones with different screen sizes or different features across carriers. They will be identical aside from the antenna used.

 

[Darkseider]

I'm confused. I'm saying the market "share" of android is not all that it seems to be because it's available on more than one device and still barely outsells an os that's only on one device. You keep saying "when will iOs be on more then one device" but I don't get the relevance of that. If iOs ever was on more then one device, Android's plight would be even worse haha...you're telling me that if Motorola or HTC were able to develop an iOS phone, it wouldn't outsell an android phone by the same company? Stop kidding yourself.

Of course hardware matters. Hardware is what's making android outsell the iPhone internationally. But again...barely outselling. Across 20 different devices

If I'm selling a million of one device which doesn't offer the user all the same features/freedoms as your devices, and you're selling 1.5 million of 20 devices combined, I'm pretty sure I'm the better salesman...

IF iOS were on devices made by Moto or HTC it would make ZERO difference. People who buy iPhones buy them because they are iPhones. It is a status symbol and a need to feel included and accepted by their peers. I can GUARANTEE that. Damned near EVERY person I know that has an iPhone and the people they know that have an iPhone have it simply because it is an iPhone. Operating system be damned. They just want the little Apple logo and the same look as their friends. This is an irrefutable fact. Do not argue it or challenge it. It's a hipsters' accessory. No different than the hot set of Versace shoes at fashion week.

What the? haha...what do you think i've been saying this ENTIRE time?? hahaa...this is like unreal that reading comprehension is this off, and i really think i'm the butt of a practical joke or something. OF COURSE people buy it because its an iphone. that's EXACTLY what i've been saying since the beginning. How many times do I have to say "the average consumer doesn't care"?? hahaa...i mean i'm literally laughing at loud at this. I just spent three pages saying this very thing and now you're agreeing with me and then telling me "do not argue it or challenge it"?? hahaa...this is hilarious.

My reading comprehension is fine. It seems your memory is lacking:

If iOs ever was on more then one device, Android's plight would be even worse haha...you're telling me that if Motorola or HTC were able to develop an iOS phone, it wouldn't outsell an android phone by the same company? Stop kidding yourself.