[Breaking]Verizon Plans to Slow Downloads of High Data Users Because of iPhone Launch

[kodiak799]

throttling data, by definition, means it is not unlimited.

By ONE definition is it not unlimited.

I can give you a large plate at my all-you-can-eat buffet, or a small plate. In either case, you can get just as fat but it will take a wee bit longer with the small plate because of the exercise you get with the extra trips.

 

[Jaxidian]

No disrespect but just because you dont want to, cant afford, or in an area where you can not get high speed internet through cable or dssl should not mean I , who can, should have to see my service degraded to feed your need.

{snip...}

The throttling back, if you are using THAT much data just go get dsl or cable modem.

If they can provide me a ROM that doesn't have half-broken wifi functionality, perhaps this is an argument. I have tried 3 different routers at home and none of them work with my Droid X (similar problems at some other friends' homes too). I've tried stock and custom ROMs - no luck. Wifi works fine at work and some other places. If I had dependable wifi on my phone, this argument might hold. As it is, VZW/Motorola networking stack on the Droid X is a joke! (Don't even get started on the VPN - I ended up dishing $20-30 for the LogMeIn since I could no longer VPN into work and use my RDP app that I paid $30 for and still works on my G1, which, by the way, also works on my home wifi).


As for your 1-year contract suggestions: I completely agree. I'm only on a one-year contract for that very specific reason. If they screw me over, they will lose my business.

 

[huskerkate]

[darn no edit button!]

excuse me - the point was first raised by jkhonea, and then expanded upon by HughJass.... :redface:

 

[Jaxidian]

Very few will be impacted by this and the ones that do probably deserve it haha
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

but this brings us back to the point made by HughJass - how is VZW going to identify and throttle back the throughput speeds of only the top 5% of data users?? the point he was making, and echoed by jkhonea, is that accomplishing this will mean that speeds will have to be throttled back across the board. this means that all of us will be impacted, doesn't it???

I don't understand why this couldn't be done. Additionally, I don't understand why VZW couldn't throttle only Android devices while leaving the vPhone alone (as was argued by somebody). Now personally, I don't think they will do this, but they certain could.

Look at it this way:

1. For vPhone vs Andy phones, VZW clearly knows what phone you have (that's why they know whether to force you to get the smartphone plan vs a dumbphone data plan when you activate). So distinguishing the difference would be easy there. And even if you don't believe that (you're foolish), do you really think VZW/Apple couldn't devise a way to identify the Apple phones from any other phone? Wouldn't be that hard to put a chip in there to do some special encryption stuff to identify it. Would only have to be done once-per-registration on a tower or tower transfer and then the tower could cache it.
   
2. For throttling, well, they already throttle as it is. This throttling is due to your signal strength with the tower and is to make sure that your data doesn't get corrupted. What's to keep them from adding additional reasons to throttle you into that mechanism? Do you think they don't have the capacity to uniquely identify you amongst the other users? If that's the case, how do you think they know whether or not to give you service? Or what account is making a phone call? Or what phone number to send over caller ID? Why would this be impossible? I see absolutely no reason why.

 

[Josefius]

They really need to expand the infastructure more. We will have to wait and see I guess how this all plays out.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[huskerkate]

throttling data, by definition, means it is not unlimited.

By ONE definition is it not unlimited.

I can give you a large plate at my all-you-can-eat buffet, or a small plate. In either case, you can get just as fat but it will take a wee bit longer with the small plate because of the exercise you get with the extra trips.

true. but, if you delay the rate at which you put food out, such that people are standing in line waiting with empty plates, can you really call yourself an all-you-can-eat buffet??

and, for that matter, if a tree falls in the forrest......

 

[jkhonea]

Actually, I don't think the metrics would be hard to put in place at all for the system to automatically monitor each individual users data and throttle them back automatically. In fact, it would be a very basic metric to put in place, I suspect.

It's hard to describe this, but basically, the system automatically watches all of the overall users. It then ranks them based on their data usage. Upon ranking them, it adjusts the top 5% of the data users and throttles back their data flow rate.

Unless I'm wrong, this would be a very simple thing to institute.

 

[kodiak799]

[the fact that the iphone is being released without bloatware is one prime example of that.

of course the iphone is a premier device. your denial of that is odd. it takes 70+ android devices across 4 networks to barely beat the sales of one device on one network in the US. every phone that is released is compared to the iphone, or dubbed an iphone killer...sounds kinda premier to me...

Again, your nostalgia and blind awe for the IPhone continues to cloud your judgement.

First, you DO NOT know what Jobs gave up for no bloatware, it could be a lower subsidy or a number of other things. He negotiates just like any other manufacturer, except in this case they bring to the table some 6M AT&T converts and that's the main leverage.

Second, Android caught the IPhone share in the US in about a year, and a lot of that has to do with the IPhone being around for 3+ years. If you remove upgrades, Android crushed IPhone sales. If you look at first-time smartphone buyers, Android crushed IPhone sales, by a wide-enough margin that you can't say "1 carrier".

An IPhone is like a Porsche. It's a great product. But there ARE Android phones out there like Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, etc...It is purely your opinion and preference that the Porsche is better, but it is flat ignorance to claim the others are not also premier vehicles.

Now, you're a guy who claims to love his BMW and couldn't be happier, yet it seems like you really really want a Porsche. I mean, it's really quite puzzling - you're not an IPhone fanboy, but you talk like one.

 

[jkhonea]

[the fact that the iphone is being released without bloatware is one prime example of that.

of course the iphone is a premier device. your denial of that is odd. it takes 70+ android devices across 4 networks to barely beat the sales of one device on one network in the US. every phone that is released is compared to the iphone, or dubbed an iphone killer...sounds kinda premier to me...

Again, your nostalgia and blind awe for the IPhone continues to cloud your judgement.

First, you DO NOT know what Jobs gave up for no bloatware, it could be a lower subsidy or a number of other things. He negotiates just like any other manufacturer, except in this case they bring to the table some 6M AT&T converts and that's the main leverage.

Second, Android caught the IPhone share in the US in about a year, and a lot of that has to do with the IPhone being around for 3+ years. If you remove upgrades, Android crushed IPhone sales. If you look at first-time smartphone buyers, Android crushed IPhone sales, by a wide-enough margin that you can't say "1 carrier".

An IPhone is like a Porsche. It's a great product. But there ARE Android phones out there like Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, etc...It is purely your opinion and preference that the Porsche is better, but it is flat ignorance to claim the others are not also premier vehicles.

Now, you're a guy who claims to love his BMW and couldn't be happier, yet it seems like you really really want a Porsche. I mean, it's really quite puzzling - you're not an IPhone fanboy, but you talk like one.

But there is one point to keep in mind. How many different models of Android phones did it take to catch up to one model of iPhone? Just a point.

 

[pc747]

I think they are gonna look for a certain number. The app that monitors your data usage, when you hit say 7gbs then they will start throttling you back. I do not think it will be throttle all android users so iphone users can be fat and happy. They know that will not fly with customers and would just give life back to att and sprint.

 

[jkhonea]

I think they are gonna look for a certain number. The app that monitors your data usage, when you hit say 7gbs then they will start throttling you back. I do not think it will be throttle all android users so iphone users can be fat and happy. They know that will not fly with customers and would just give life back to att and sprint.

Exactly my thinking.

 

[UNC]

that's not what's happening though. why do people fail to see this? you are 100% correct, they can't just change your contract out of the blue like that. and that's not what theyre doing. for all intents and purposes you have unlimited data. this month you can use 1MB and next month you can use 125GB if you wanted. You'd still pay $29.99 for unlimited data. Verizon can't just charge you overages for using more data then what they want you to use.

here's what they can do, and what they are doing. The contract clearly states that they can, at any time, for any reason throttle your data. does that completely suck? yes it does. is there anything that can be done about it? no, there's not. the contract that was agreed to didn't mislead the user and say "you will unequivocally have unlimited data, unlimited speeds, and the ability to use our network for whatever you see fit"...there was no data guarantee, no speed guarantee and no other guarantees in the contract except what i mentioned above.

you have unlimited data. but verizon can throttle your data whenever they want however they want for whatever reason they want.

and i think its foolish for anyone (not talking about you husker, just quoted you) to think that 50% of smartphone users are going to be throttled. how do people not realize how utterly ridiculous that sounds?

verizon, in their own corporate boardroom somewhere will set a threshold that they consider "extraordinary" usage. they will make the customer aware of this. if a customer goes over that usage, the top 5% who go over will be throttled. i mean it's spelled clear as day in that article, and everyone here is going crazy about it. and guess what? they are also allowed to do this because of the contract that everyone signed. it's in there. in black and white. ignorance of that fact is not an excuse.

90% of the people here will probably not even be affected. and it'll be 5% of the 10% that are left who get hurt by this. a very, very, very small amount. and yes...if an iphone user is in that 5% they will be throttled. you've gotta be kidding me if you think verizon is going to give free reign of their network to you just because you have an iphone and punish you if you dont...

You can't call out people for not reading their contract, and then not read the article we are talking about.

Someone corrected me, 26% of vzw is smartphones... so, let's do some rough math. 5% of 95 million is 4+ million. 26% of 95 million is ~23 million. So basically 20-30% of ALL smartphone users are in the top 5% of all verizon data usage... I imagine the people of this website use more bandwidth than the average smartphone consumer. So, upwards of 50% of this forum is going to be throttled. To say otherwise is to ignore the facts...

Men lie and women lie, but numbers NEVER lie.

you didn't read the article sir. it doesn't say 5 percent of smartphone users will be throttled. what it does say is "If you use an extraordinary amount of data and fall within the top 5% of Verizon Wireless data users"
how are you only seeing the 5% part and not seeing what comes before that? "if you use an extraordinary amount of data". now, tell me, is there some book somewhere that defines what "extraordinary amount of data" means? no there's not. So that means VZW will decide what that means. the article also includes the word "and" meaning both conditions have to be met. if you use an extraordinary amount of data and fall within the top 5% of VZW data users, you will be throttled.

since we're doing math, let's make it simple. let's say there are 100 verizon users. and verizon decides that "extraordinary" means over 5GB. studies have shown that 90+% use less than that, but let's keep it at 90% use less. That means 10 users use an "extraordinary amount of data". Now, we look at the second part of the requirement: "and fall within the top 5% of VZW data users". That means it's 5% of those 10, which amounts to 1/2 a person. in other words, very very very few people will be affected by this.

They are not saying "of all the smartphone users, 5% will be throttled"...you're reading the article wrong, just like you read your contract wrong haha...

and yes...iphone users who fall in that 5% will be throttled.

It clearly says top 5% of ALL data. Not top 5% of the top users.

It can't be any more clear and it truly baffles me how it could confuse you so!

So, would you agree that the top 5% of ALL verizon data users are smartphone users?

Do you agree that 26% of ALL users are smartphone users?
Do you agree that 5/25th = 1/5th?
I assume you do agree with everything I've stated??

Because if you do, you acknowledge that 20% of smartphone users will be slowed.

Now, for some assumptions. Let's assume that 25% of verizon smartphones are BB... that would mean 7% of all verizon phones are blackberries. Take that 7% out of the 26% that is all smartphones... you're left with 19%.

If like me you assume that BB users don't use as much data as android users, then it is logical to think that most of the top 5% of all verizon data users are android users. If that is the case. Then 5/19th Android users will be slowed. Or a little more than 1/4th.

I actually think BB accounts for closer to 50% VZWs smartphones.
That would make it 5/12 android users getting throttled. That is 40%!!!

 

[huskerkate]

Actually, I don't think the metrics would be hard to put in place at all for the system to automatically monitor each individual users data and throttle them back automatically. In fact, it would be a very basic metric to put in place, I suspect.

It's hard to describe this, but basically, the system automatically watches all of the overall users. It then ranks them based on their data usage. Upon ranking them, it adjusts the top 5% of the data users and throttles back their data flow rate.

Unless I'm wrong, this would be a very simple thing to institute.

i hope i wasn't sounding accusatory, because i really don't know if the technology exists or not - i was just raising the point in the hopes it could be answered.

so, does this mean that the "top 5%" would not be based on historical usage, but current usage? you say that the system monitors overall users, and then ranks them based on data usage. does that mean it's a fluid calculation, as opposed to a static one? for example, Joe may historically be in the top 5% of data users and Jane isn't. but, currently, Jane may be in the top 5% because she is using a bunch of data, but Joe is on vacation and isn't using that much. does that mean that Jane gets throttled, but Joe doesn't??

again, i don't know the answer - i'm just asking the question so i can try to understand the logistics...

 

[jkhonea]

You didn't sound accusatory at all, Husker. You've actually been really good with your posts. I think the system could be realtime without any problem at all.

 

[Jaxidian]

You didn't sound accusatory at all, Husker. You've actually been really good with your posts. I think the system could be realtime without any problem at all.

It doesn't really need to be real-time, though. Just update it once a week and once you have a red flag on your account, you're throttled for the next 7 weeks. Seems pretty simple.