Does the DX2 kernel have unauthorized tether monitor ?

[czerdrill]

Try this scenario: I use my phone to download bits of data from the Internet. The phone sends those bits to a program. The programs to send the bits to my computer. Sometimes I use a wireless connection, sometimes I use a USB cable... but in both cases, the bits end up on my computer. I use my computer to send bits to my phone over those same USB or wireless connections. The program on my phone takes those bits and sends them back to the Internet.

Question: Am I tethering?

If you said yes, you are wrong... all I did was download a file, mount my SDCard and copy it to my computer. Then I copied some other files to my phone and uploaded them to my Dropbox.

What's the difference between what I just described and tethering? Time and the program you're using to do it. There is nothing in the contract about what programs you're allowed to use (except maybe malicious programs). So that leaves time. How quickly does the transfer have to happen before it's considered tethering? If VZW truly cracked down on tethering and it went to court, they'd lose... and they know it. That's exactly why nobody's been sued.

the difference which you're leaving out is you can still transfer through usb in airplane mode and you can still transfer wirelessly without using 3g and just using wifi (also in airplane mode). When you use your 3g connection you're using verizons network, which you have to pay for. The reason no one has been sued is because that's a ridiculous and stupid waste of money. Far easier to just tier data.

 

[vvildcard]

Your rebuttal is dodging the question: If I download a file with my phone and transfer it to my computer, is that tethering?

The state of the 3G connection doesn't matter... the data came from the 3G Internet connection in both cases. It almost sounds like you think the phone is sending 3G to your computer. I assure you, this is not the case. To do that, you would have a network adapter that uses the phone as a modem (granted, some tethering programs (PDANet) do something similar, but even then, the phone is not acting as a modem).

When you use your 3g connection you're using verizons network, which you have to pay for.

We all pay to use Verizon's network... nobody is questioning this. Again, I want to know how using a tethering program to transfer data immediately from Internet to phone to computer is different than doing the same thing, but over a longer time span.

 

[Elkay]

I'm all for just tiering data, use your data how you want. End this stupid cat and mouse game for good.

 

[vvildcard]

I'm all for just tiering data, use your data how you want. End this stupid cat and mouse game for good.

Agreed! But for the love of God, don't stuff us all into the proposed 2GB plan!

 

[czerdrill]

Your rebuttal is dodging the question: If I download a file with my phone and transfer it to my computer, is that tethering?

The state of the 3G connection doesn't matter... the data came from the 3G Internet connection in both cases. It almost sounds like you think the phone is sending 3G to your computer. I assure you, this is not the case. To do that, you would have a network adapter that uses the phone as a modem (granted, some tethering programs (PDANet) do something similar, but even then, the phone is not acting as a modem).

When you use your 3g connection you're using verizons network, which you have to pay for.

We all pay to use Verizon's network... nobody is questioning this. Again, I want to know how using a tethering program to transfer data immediately from Internet to phone to computer is different than doing the same thing, but over a longer time span.

how am i dodging the question? if anything, you're dodging the answer. you absolutely are using your phone as a modem. not sure how you can even deny that or what arguments you have to say that that's not what's happening.

 

[Elkay]

I'm all for just tiering data, use your data how you want. End this stupid cat and mouse game for good.

Agreed! But for the love of God, don't stuff us all into the proposed 2GB plan!

Imho, the tier cutoff for what we pay right now should be 5GB/mo. That's been the known "flag" on multiple carriers for years that you're abusing the service. If they don't care about up to 5GB/mo at the current "unlimited" rate, they shouldn't care about 5GB at this rate when going tiered.

 

[vvildcard]

if anything, you're dodging the answer

To what question, sir?


I'll continue to ask my question (the one nobody has answered): If I download a file with my phone and transfer it to my computer, is that tethering?


As for your phone being a modem, it's pretty simple... A modem (modulator-demodulator) is a device that modulates an analog carrier signal to encode digital information, and also demodulates such a carrier signal to decode the transmitted information. It's true that your phone acts as a modem for the programs running on it (it modulates/demodulates the 3G signal). It's not true, however, that it's acting as a modem for your computer. A java applet (in most cases) negotiates that data transfer.

Wireless tether uses an Ad-hoc network connection. Wired tethering uses a direct data transfer.

 

[czerdrill]

if anything, you're dodging the answer

To what question, sir?


I'll continue to ask my question (the one nobody has answered): If I download a file with my phone and transfer it to my computer, is that tethering?


As for your phone being a modem, it's pretty simple... A modem (modulator-demodulator) is a device that modulates an analog carrier signal to encode digital information, and also demodulates such a carrier signal to decode the transmitted information. It's true that your phone acts as a modem for the programs running on it (it modulates/demodulates the 3G signal). It's not true, however, that it's acting as a modem for your computer. A java applet (in most cases) negotiates that data transfer.

Wireless tether uses an Ad-hoc network connection. Wired tethering uses a direct data transfer.

are you not using your phone as a wireless modem? i still fail to see why or how you're arguing that that's not the case...in pdanets case the phone is absolutely acting like a modem...for all intents and purposes the computer will see the phone as an external modem

 

[theguru1974]

So, did anyone answer the original question asked in post #1?

Eric

 

[vvildcard]

So, did anyone answer the original question asked in post #1?

I haven't seen one... and I'm certainly not in a position to answer.

 

[Elkay]

They likely can. If you're browsing with a desktop browser, they can easily analyze packets/requests and see if your browser is reporting as a desktop browser. If you're opening many oddball ports at once (i.e. torrenting), that would also be obvious. Would also be obvious with certain known ports in use (Xbox Live, PSN etc). It's really very easy to tell if you got yourself flagged to be monitored (usually from very high data usage), but there's no way to know for sure what will get them to start monitoring your usage closely. Basically, don't do it unless you're willing to pay the consequences.

 

[UNC]

Downloading to your phone and then transferring via USB is not tethering. Downloading directly to your pc via your phones mobile network IS tethering...

You guys are trying to justify breaching a contract that you had no problem signing by making up dumb scenarios. It doesnt matter that you or anyone else thinks its silly, you agreed to those silly terms.

 

[vvildcard]

are you not using your phone as a wireless modem?

No. I'm using an Ad Hoc connection to transfer data between my phone and computer. You say this is fine under some conditions and a breach of contract under others.

Why don't you answer my question: If I download a file with my phone and transfer it to my computer, is that tethering?
- Are you afraid of saying "yes" because it means you tether?
- Are you afraid that saying "no" will mean there's no such thing as tethering?

The whole point is that VZW has no reasonable ability, despite the contract, to govern what programs we use to transfer data and when that data gets transferred.

 

[czerdrill]

are you not using your phone as a wireless modem?

No. I'm using an Ad Hoc connection to transfer data between my phone and computer. You say this is fine under some conditions and a breach of contract under others.

Why don't you answer my question: If I download a file with my phone and transfer it to my computer, is that tethering?
- Are you afraid of saying "yes" because it means you tether?
- Are you afraid that saying "no" will mean there's no such thing as tethering?

The whole point is that VZW has no reasonable ability, despite the contract, to govern what programs we use to transfer data and when that data gets transferred.

Afraid? Not at all...I think you have some weird idea in your head that you've discovered something revolutionary. I answered your "is there a difference?" Question in my first post. You ignored it. The answer to your question is no, and again that's because you don't need a data connection to do a usb transfer. Tethering is using your phone as a modem (gateway? Router?) to share your phones connection. Trying to compare usb transferring to tethering is silliness, and you know that...again not sure why it appears you think you've discovered some loophole. The difference between the two is obvious to those who aren't trying to spin some silly justification...

When you usb transfer can you then disconnect your cable modem and then use your "ad hoc" connection to browse the internet without turning on your tethering app? Didn't think so. Again...the difference is obvious...to most.

Your "verizon has no leg to stand on" argument is doubly silly. Why in the world would they take users to court over this, and waste millions of dollars when all they have to do is set up tiers? Hopefully you don't own a business where litigation is your first resort when something goes wrong. Easy way to go bankrupt.

Believe me when the tiers come vzw will be governing what you do. Oh let me use your backwards logic...the reason you won't go to court over this is bc you know you'll lose...

 

[vvildcard]

Downloading directly to your pc via your phones mobile network IS tethering...

You're right, and I won't argue with you on that point. What I'm saying is that does not happen. Yes, the data ultimately ends up on your PC, but isn't that what happens when transferring via USB? The fact is, the data lands on your phone first.

Downloading to your phone and then transferring via USB is not tethering.

Thank you for answering my question. My follow up is this: How is this fundamentally different from tethering?

Tethering is a misnomer... your phone simply sends data that it receives from it's 3G connection to your PC. For some reason you call instant transfer to your PC a tether and delayed transfer to your PC a file transfer.

There is only one other difference that hasn't been brought up... one process happens automatically and one process must be initiated manually by a series of touches. But there's nothing stopping you from scripting the events. If you refined such a script to happen at increasingly faster intervals, you would end up with two of the same.