P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[MoeDaddy]

The interesting part to me is that I doubt they even care about illegal tethering I think that is their red herring, their way to justify their actions. What I really feel is the issue is just plain and simple control. Just like apple has they all want control in order to keep making as much money as possible. As usual they will all go to far and their will be lawsuits and the govt will look at their practices... but again we can always show support with our wallets and that can hurt them. These days a small outcrop of righteousnesses can snowball, with the internet behind it and social media these small outcry's can sway a larger audience...

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out...

 

[czerdrill]

Like I said I don't tether so Im not what you would call stealing. Since my tis do not include tether because it was not an issue due to d1 cannot do that,it is not offered as a service. So a person can't steal someone they have permission to.

Others can and probably are in violation of the tos. However they have permission to access the internet and therefore are not stealing as they have permission to.

Is that not right? Do we not have permission to access the internet? (Not asking about tos, or how it is being accessed)

If we don't have permission to access the internet then I will agree that we are all stealing. However you an I both pay for that service.

Yes you are right no one will really leave vzw. I never planned on it. I will do as I usually do and keep the phone iI got as long as I can.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

hey man, wasn't speaking specifically to you just quoted you to answer your question.

But you are missing my point.

You cannot steal something you have permission to. No way you put it you cannot do it.

However you can be in violation of the tos. And there is a big difference.

I don't want you to take me the wrong way. None of his makes me mad, I just don't see how you can steal something you have permission to use.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

Please let me know why you think you have permission to tether without paying?

 

[czerdrill]

The interesting part to me is that I doubt they even care about illegal tethering I think that is their red herring, their way to justify their actions. What I really feel is the issue is just plain and simple control. Just like apple has they all want control in order to keep making as much money as possible. As usual they will all go to far and their will be lawsuits and the govt will look at their practices... but again we can always show support with our wallets and that can hurt them. These days a small outcrop of righteousnesses can snowball, with the internet behind it and social media these small outcry's can sway a larger audience...

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out...

How this all plays out? 35,000 people will complain on android forums across the internet, 2 people will boycott VZW, and 5 million people will buy the next android phone lol...it's what always happens. this is going nowhere.

 

[cynnar]

See you jump on the tether again. I am talking about stealing. And stealing means you take the data without permission. You pay for permission to take the data.

Stealing not tethering.

And if you do tether you still have permission to access the data. Even though you may be in direct violation with the tos.

You just cannot simply steal the data that you have permission to get.

Do you get put in jail after you buy something and leave the store?

If you the same product wrongly you might, but you didn't steal it.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

 

[cynnar]

I really wish I could continue this debate with you but my phone is about dead, and I've got to get some sleep. Work comes in a few hours.

Maybe things will blow over and we can keep our root.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

 

[czerdrill]

See you jump on the tether again. I am talking about stealing. And stealing means you take the data without permission. You pay for permission to take the data.

Stealing not tethering.

And if you do tether you still have permission to access the data. Even though you may be in direct violation with the tos.

You just cannot simply steal the data that you have permission to get.

Do you get put in jail after you buy something and leave the store?

If you the same product wrongly you might, but you didn't steal it.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

See that's where tether-ers refuse to make the distinction. It's offered as a separate product, and it's not included in your unlimited data (and that's detailed in your TOS). It's that simple, the people who tether just refuse to look at it that way...your paying for unlimited smartphone data without tethering. verizon doesn't mislead you and tells you that tethering is included and in fact specifically tells you that it is not included. and you agree to that when you sign a contract. just because people refuse to make the distinction doesn't make a difference. it's not a free-for-all unlimited plan. it's unlimited data for your smartphone, through your smartphone on your smartphone. these distinctions are made in the TOS and you agree to them when you get a data plan.

refusing to make the distinction after the fact is irrelevant, and yes...it is stealing.

 

[Narsil]

All I know for certain is that all these impassioned, logical, and cogent arguments have certainly changed my mind! I am now firmly in your camp and you can quit trying to win me over. I'm already yours.

 

[hookbill]

See you jump on the tether again. I am talking about stealing. And stealing means you take the data without permission. You pay for permission to take the data.

Stealing not tethering.

And if you do tether you still have permission to access the data. Even though you may be in direct violation with the tos.

You just cannot simply steal the data that you have permission to get.

Do you get put in jail after you buy something and leave the store?

If you the same product wrongly you might, but you didn't steal it.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

See that's where tether-ers refuse to make the distinction. It's offered as a separate product, and it's not included in your unlimited data (and that's detailed in your TOS). It's that simple, the people who tether just refuse to look at it that way...your paying for unlimited smartphone data without tethering. verizon doesn't mislead you and tells you that tethering is included and in fact specifically tells you that it is not included. and you agree to that when you sign a contract. just because people refuse to make the distinction doesn't make a difference. it's not a free-for-all unlimited plan. it's unlimited data for your smartphone, through your smartphone on your smartphone. these distinctions are made in the TOS and you agree to them when you get a data plan.

refusing to make the distinction after the fact is irrelevant, and yes...it is stealing.

I'd like to think there is a difference between "Violations of ToS" and stealing.

Violation of ToS is any modifications you make on your phone. Period. Stealing is taking something that doesn't belong to you.

If you have unlimited data you have it but that is strictly for the use of your phone. Verizon clearly has a plan for tethering and they charge for it. I was one of the mods who was against allowing the discussion of hacking Verizon's hot spot but I can't win them all. Matter of fact I win very few. But IMHO it was wrong from the start. Violation of ToS.

And it is true, they want to control what you can and can't put on your phone but that's ok. 99% of the people won't have a issue with this. All the rest of you are here today. In this Forum

 

[czerdrill]

See you jump on the tether again. I am talking about stealing. And stealing means you take the data without permission. You pay for permission to take the data.

Stealing not tethering.

And if you do tether you still have permission to access the data. Even though you may be in direct violation with the tos.

You just cannot simply steal the data that you have permission to get.

Do you get put in jail after you buy something and leave the store?

If you the same product wrongly you might, but you didn't steal it.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

See that's where tether-ers refuse to make the distinction. It's offered as a separate product, and it's not included in your unlimited data (and that's detailed in your TOS). It's that simple, the people who tether just refuse to look at it that way...your paying for unlimited smartphone data without tethering. verizon doesn't mislead you and tells you that tethering is included and in fact specifically tells you that it is not included. and you agree to that when you sign a contract. just because people refuse to make the distinction doesn't make a difference. it's not a free-for-all unlimited plan. it's unlimited data for your smartphone, through your smartphone on your smartphone. these distinctions are made in the TOS and you agree to them when you get a data plan.

refusing to make the distinction after the fact is irrelevant, and yes...it is stealing.

I'd like to think there is a difference between "Violations of ToS" and stealing.

Violation of ToS is any modifications you make on your phone. Period. Stealing is taking something that doesn't belong to you.

If you have unlimited data you have it but that is strictly for the use of your phone. Verizon clearly has a plan for tethering and they charge for it. I was one of the mods who was against allowing the discussion of hacking Verizon's hot spot but I can't win them all. Matter of fact I win very few. But IMHO it was wrong from the start. Violation of ToS.

And it is true, they want to control what you can and can't put on your phone but that's ok. 99% of the people won't have a issue with this. All the rest of you are here today. In this Forum

Yes violating your tos doesn't automatically mean your stealing in all cases. But in the case of tethering it does,

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[czerdrill]

Sorry hit submit. In the case of tethering it does because tethering is listed as a separate product (whether or not it really is is irrelevant because vzw makes the distinction and you agree to that distinction). Therefore getting it for free is theft of service, no ifs ands or buts about it. Of course there's people here who don't and won't ever see it like that. Unfortunately for them, what they believe is just baseless emotion

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[the86d]

When I signed up for my contract there was no tethering for the OG Droid, I even called and asked (without my name given).

The Open Source Community added a feature to the Open Source Phone, that allowed function that Verizon and Motorola didn't.

They want to take the idea and charge for an idea that wasn't theirs, that they now implement.

Someone else implemented a service on a device that expanded function in an Open Source OS. They now do it and want to complain that it is happening.

Again, this should be a feature INCLUDED. They are just being greedy, as though they do not get enough of my money from FiOS Internet, Phone, TV, and my 2 cell phones WITH data, AND a TXTing plan. I rarely hit 300MB a month for data (on my 3g) due to work and home WiFi being faster than 3g.

I swear we need a Open Phone Provider. If only one was available with moderate service, I would make the change...

 

[czerdrill]

When I signed up for my contract there was no tethering for the OG Droid, I even called and asked (without my name given).

The Open Source Community added a feature to the Open Source Phone, that allowed function that Verizon and Motorola didn't.

They want to take the idea and charge for an idea that wasn't theirs, that they now implement.

Someone else implemented a service on a device that expanded function in an Open Source OS. They now do it and want to complain that it is happening.

Again, this should be a feature INCLUDED. They are just being greedy, as though they do not get enough of my money from FiOS Internet, Phone, TV, and my 2 cell phones WITH data, AND a TXTing plan. I rarely hit 300MB a month for data (on my 3g) due to work and home WiFi being faster than 3g.

I swear we need a Open Phone Provider. If only one was available with moderate service, I would make the change...

Again irrelevant. Sure they're greedy, so is every company on the planet. Please name one generous company that cuts back on its pricing because a couple of customers think it's unfair.

You hit the nail on the head. Your only choice is switching. They can charge for how you use their network, regardless of whether you think its fair or not.

 

[the86d]

Are all the people so insistent that this is stealing here for a reason?

Do they just like to argue? Are they Big Red employees? I assume that they people that don't use any other Open Source OS. (The same people probably are not decent enough to signal when making a lane change, not even 30% of the time...)

If we really wanted to STEAL Internet bandwidth we'd hop on our neighbor's WEP encrypted WiFi connection (as it takes <5 min to do), and not pay for our own home Internet service too.

I believe that we are paying A LOT, and should get our money's worth.

STEALING is taking an Open Source Community idea, and EXPLOITING IT by making it a service you provide and trying to charge extra for it when it wasn't your idea to begin with!

I guess this is all moot.

 

[hookbill]

When I signed up for my contract there was no tethering for the OG Droid, I even called and asked (without my name given).

The Open Source Community added a feature to the Open Source Phone, that allowed function that Verizon and Motorola didn't.

They want to take the idea and charge for an idea that wasn't theirs, that they now implement.

Someone else implemented a service on a device that expanded function in an Open Source OS. They now do it and want to complain that it is happening.

Again, this should be a feature INCLUDED. They are just being greedy, as though they do not get enough of my money from FiOS Internet, Phone, TV, and my 2 cell phones WITH data, AND a TXTing plan. I rarely hit 300MB a month for data (on my 3g) due to work and home WiFi being faster than 3g.

I swear we need a Open Phone Provider. If only one was available with moderate service, I would make the change...

You can't possibly include it because even though you won't take advantage of it others will. There is some person that trolls around her bragging about how he uses Verizon's hot spot as his IPS. Now that's just wrong and we all know that. That's taking advantage.

But again as pointed out many times before it's not just tethering that they want to stop, but rather people making modifications to their phone. This cost money because of all the morons, and I can say that because I'm one of them, who have bricked their phones while rooting or removing the root and going back to stock. The so called "impossible to brick" phone just is very possible.

And they want to lock down what you can do with your phone. They don't want you to remove their bloatware no mater how alloying it is to you there a 20 people who don't find it annoying. Or maybe 19. You get my point.

I never heard anything Verizon said since the original Droid went up for sale that customization in the form of rooting was an option. This argument for allowing rooting and customizing is pointless.

 

[OneTenderRebel]

Are all the people so insistent that this is stealing here for a reason?

Do they just like to argue? Are they Big Red employees? I assume that they people that don't use any other Open Source OS. (The same people probably are not decent enough to signal when making a lane change, not even 30% of the time...)

If we really wanted to STEAL Internet bandwidth we'd hop on our neighbor's WEP encrypted WiFi connection (as it takes <5 min to do), and not pay for our own home Internet service too.

I believe that we are paying A LOT, and should get our money's worth.

STEALING is taking an Open Source Community idea, and EXPLOITING IT by making it a service you provide and trying to charge extra for it when it wasn't your idea to begin with!

I guess this is all moot.

Its not an issue of moral code here. What everyone arguing for tethering refuses to acknowledge is that it is in direct violation if the ToS. Its plain as day. Whether we think that's right or wrong is absolutely irrelevant. Because it is in direct violation you are stealing data to use on other devices. Like I said ethics aside, its against the policies of VZW. There is no argument to be made otherwise. Certainly we are entitled to disagree with said policies, doesn't make it right though.

sent from the great depths of my phones internet (thanks Al Gore)