P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[czerdrill]

Your ToS is subject to change at any time.

Anyone saying they payed for whatever data they wanted so they can use it however they want is insane. The data plan clearly states prohibited uses on their ToS. The reason why you pay for tether is because of the device being used for data. Your phone, besides those people that for some reason torrent on their phone all the time... Does not suck up that much bandwidth. But have you ever VPNd at home? Have you tried to do something else while doing that? If you have you'll know that is doesn't work well. The things people do on their laptops hog bandwidth like crazy. For this reason, you will never see tethering for free or added into your plan. It would be like making a call on At&t... But with data.

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Yeah I don't get why people are assuming that VZW is just opening up their mobile network for you to abuse by tethering your laptop, downloading torrents, playing Xbox or PS3 and replacing your ISP. $30/month to do whatever the heck you want, whenever you want, with no restrictions. And people are saying VZW is stealing from them?? I'd say that's an amazing gift lol. It's strange the thought processes of some.

 

[hemorrdroid]

Anyone who thinks that after you pay for unlimited data, that you should then be charged to tether that data, you are Verizon's tool.

Congratulations, they have brainwashed you into thinking that because they said it, it must be so.

It is they who are stealing, by charging twice for the same thing.

I bet if your electric company sent out a new agreement saying that you will pay $.13 per kwh, and a $20 monthly fee to use it for your air conditioner, you would throw a fit, you would say they are crazy, that you wouldn't pay that, that you'd see them in court. Don't say you wouldn't.

If someone wants to use 30GB a month, who gives a s***, pretty sure that is less than unlimited.

I tether on occasion when i am out, but i have never gone over 2gb in a month, and my largest data usage comes from my phone, maybe 3% from my laptop.

Did i sign an agreement saying i wouldn't do it? Yep, and if they enforce me paying for it, i would simply stop using tethering. BUT, that doesn't change the morality of the charge in the first place.

anyone that thinks that they are owed something that is prohibited by an agreement that they signed is an even bigger tool.

so you're saying if your electric company told you upfront that it costs $20/month for your AC, and you agreed and signed an agreement, that you would be outraged when you're hit with the $20 bill? LOL...k.

I am simply stating that they are bending you over with this charge, and i'm not supplying any lube.

If you think you should be charged twice for something, then i would love to do some business with you.

Defending VZW on this is like a wife defending her abusive husband.

 

[czerdrill]

Anyone who thinks that after you pay for unlimited data, that you should then be charged to tether that data, you are Verizon's tool.

Congratulations, they have brainwashed you into thinking that because they said it, it must be so.

It is they who are stealing, by charging twice for the same thing.

I bet if your electric company sent out a new agreement saying that you will pay $.13 per kwh, and a $20 monthly fee to use it for your air conditioner, you would throw a fit, you would say they are crazy, that you wouldn't pay that, that you'd see them in court. Don't say you wouldn't.

If someone wants to use 30GB a month, who gives a s***, pretty sure that is less than unlimited.

I tether on occasion when i am out, but i have never gone over 2gb in a month, and my largest data usage comes from my phone, maybe 3% from my laptop.

Did i sign an agreement saying i wouldn't do it? Yep, and if they enforce me paying for it, i would simply stop using tethering. BUT, that doesn't change the morality of the charge in the first place.

anyone that thinks that they are owed something that is prohibited by an agreement that they signed is an even bigger tool.

so you're saying if your electric company told you upfront that it costs $20/month for your AC, and you agreed and signed an agreement, that you would be outraged when you're hit with the $20 bill? LOL...k.

I am simply stating that they are bending you over with this charge, and i'm not supplying any lube.

If you think you should be charged twice for something, then i would love to do some business with you.

Defending VZW on this is like a wife defending her abusive husband.

way to avoid the question. here i'll ask it again:

so you're saying if your electric company told you upfront that it costs $20/month for your AC, and you agreed and signed an agreement, that you would be outraged when you're hit with the $20 bill?

try answering it next time, and leave your lame analogies out of it.

 

[jimboman]

I realize that it's all about the money, but I still don't get "it"...

"Android is an open-source software stack for mobile devices, and a corresponding open-source project led by Google. We created Android in response to our own experiences launching mobile apps. We wanted to make sure that there was no central point of failure, so that no industry player can restrict or control the innovations of any other. That's why we created Android, and made its source code open.Android is an open-source software stack for mobile devices, and a corresponding open-source project led by Google. We created Android in response to our own experiences launching mobile apps. We wanted to make sure that there was no central point of failure, so that no industry player can restrict or control the innovations of any other. That's why we created Android, and made its source code open." - Android.com, Open source project disclosure.

It seems that, in the big picture of things, reducing cost they way P3Droid suggests they will service providers KNOWINGLY holding back growth. Rather than taking a militant approach to chasing money, why don't they invest some resources in solving the problem that results in a win-win for everyone. The profit motive is clear to see, but in my opinion this approach is to the detriment of that motive long term.

These devices are in the infancy. Why deliberately inhibit their natural progression (yes, hacking/unlocking/etc. is NATURAL) to chase a couple of bucks?

 

[cynnar]

Its Twice I was not trying to argue that tether is right or wrong, good or bad. I was simply stating that while vzw doesn't like it and your tos says you cannot do it, you are not stealing it as vzw knows and says your phone is allowed to access there network.

Stealing is when you take something from someone without them knowing about it.

Look it up that is the definition.

Everyone says stealing when vzw knows and said yes your phone can access our network.

As for tether if it violates tos then yes it is wrong.

And again I do not tether my phone.

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[czerdrill]

I realize that it's all about the money, but I still don't get "it"...

"Android is an open-source software stack for mobile devices, and a corresponding open-source project led by Google. We created Android in response to our own experiences launching mobile apps. We wanted to make sure that there was no central point of failure, so that no industry player can restrict or control the innovations of any other. That's why we created Android, and made its source code open.Android is an open-source software stack for mobile devices, and a corresponding open-source project led by Google. We created Android in response to our own experiences launching mobile apps. We wanted to make sure that there was no central point of failure, so that no industry player can restrict or control the innovations of any other. That's why we created Android, and made its source code open." - Android.com, Open source project disclosure.

It seems that, in the big picture of things, reducing cost they way P3Droid suggests they will service providers KNOWINGLY holding back growth. Rather than taking a militant approach to chasing money, why don't they invest some resources in solving the problem that results in a win-win for everyone. The profit motive is clear to see, but in my opinion this approach is to the detriment of that motive long term.

These devices are in the infancy. Why deliberately inhibit their natural progression (yes, hacking/unlocking/etc. is NATURAL) to chase a couple of bucks?

simple, because that natural progression provides no monetary gain for the carrier or for the manufacturer. second, people buy the phones regardless if its locked or not. the few who complain about it are a drop in the bucket. they're not alienating 45% of their users, they're alienating 0.045% (made up number).

vzw/moto/htc/samsung or any other OEM is not in the android game because they are one with the ideals of open source. they're in it for money. and charging for tethering, or blocking root, or putting bloatware on these phones make them money. the phones sell no matter what. you're not going to see android marketshare plummet to 1% because root is blocked. the overwhelming majority actually does win: vzw makes and saves money, OEMs make and save money, and the average consumer (see 99+%) get great phones.

 

[axlx]

People are bringing way to much law and logic to the table! Its just not right! Lol

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best comment so far

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[czerdrill]

Its Twice I was not trying to argue that tether is right or wrong, good or bad. I was simply stating that while vzw doesn't like it and your tos says you cannot do it, you are not stealing it as vzw knows and says your phone is allowed to access there network.

Stealing is when you take something from someone without them knowing about it.

Look it up that is the definition.

Everyone says stealing when vzw knows and said yes your phone can access our network.

As for tether if it violates tos then yes it is wrong.

And again I do not tether my phone.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

I dont' understand your logic, man. If you have to pay for something, and you don't pay for it it's stealing. It's not like the people who tether call Verizon and say "Hey, I'll be tethering today, I'm just letting you know, so you won't misconstrue this as stealing". The people who tether are hiding it from Verizon, because they know they're not allowed to do it. Why hide it if you really believe that you are allowed to do it? Why unroot your phone when you send it in if you really believe "It's mine and I can do what I want?" Because you know what your doing is a violation of your TOS, and you know that tethering is theft of service (you're not paying for it).

It does not matter one bit if it's right or wrong, moral or immoral, ethical or unethical. Backnblack said it best, "the android community bought this upon themselves".

You're acting as if all the rooters and tether-ers have been upfront and honest about what they're doing to Verizon.

 

[hemorrdroid]

I wouldn't tell them i was using it for A/C to be blunt. Sorry, i only pay for a single service a single time.

Oh, but how i love to give analogies, i am so sorry that you feel that way. Perhaps i can brainstorm and come up with some good ones that you would really enjoy!

 

[czerdrill]

I wouldn't tell them i was using it for A/C to be blunt. Sorry, i only pay for a single service a single time.

Oh, but how i love to give analogies, i am so sorry that you feel that way. Perhaps i can brainstorm and come up with some good ones that you would really enjoy!

So in other words you'd knowingly violate something that you agreed not to, right? And you still don't see how baseless your arguments are?

 

[hemorrdroid]

I wouldn't tell them i was using it for A/C to be blunt. Sorry, i only pay for a single service a single time.

Oh, but how i love to give analogies, i am so sorry that you feel that way. Perhaps i can brainstorm and come up with some good ones that you would really enjoy!

So in other words you'd knowingly violate something that you agreed not to, right? And you still don't see how baseless your arguments are?

Them charging twice for the services is wrong, and so is my not paying twice, so as i see it we are even.

I realize that i signed an agreement to something that was wrong to begin with, and that was my bad. But i won't lose any sleep over not following it.

 

[cynnar]

LOL it is really simple. Take root, tether, and everything else out of the equation.

You sign a contract with vzw and pay the $30 extra for unlimited text and internet. It is not stealing because they say ok to that.

So now you cannot steal it they know and said you can use the vzw network. (Yes no tether just to be clear).

Now add root and tether and all back in.

Nothing has changed except how ypu

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[czerdrill]

I wouldn't tell them i was using it for A/C to be blunt. Sorry, i only pay for a single service a single time.

Oh, but how i love to give analogies, i am so sorry that you feel that way. Perhaps i can brainstorm and come up with some good ones that you would really enjoy!

So in other words you'd knowingly violate something that you agreed not to, right? And you still don't see how baseless your arguments are?

Them charging twice for the services is wrong, and so is my not paying twice, so as i see it we are even.

I realize that i signed an agreement to something that was wrong to begin with, and that was my bad. But i won't lose any sleep over not following it.

Yes...it was your bad.

 

[czerdrill]

LOL it is really simple. Take root, tether, and everything else out of the equation.

You sign a contract with vzw and pay the $30 extra for unlimited text and internet. It is not stealing because they say ok to that.

So now you cannot steal it they know and said you can use the vzw network. (Yes no tether just to be clear).

Now add root and tether and all back in.

Nothing has changed except how ypu

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you pay for unlimited text and internet on your phone. we're arguing in circles here. you refuse to believe that the $30 plan is exclusively for your phone. you seem to think that it's for every device you can think of. you're wrong. i still cannot imagine how people can argue this.

 

[cynnar]

Sorry hit wrong button.

The only thing that has changed is how you give your data out. That is where the tos comes in at. That can make it illegal, but you cannot steal what you have access to.

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