P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[SquireSCA]

so I finally read this thing and I must admit I wouldn't mind if phones were unable to be rooted. I mean yeah I like being able to root my phone, change theme's, ROM's, and so on. But I dont care about tethering....pretty much anything my laptop can do my Droid 2 can do as well. So no need to tether. In addition ever since I rooted my phone I have thoughts of just going back to stock and being done with it.

Uh u can tether without root....

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

Which simply makes the point that if all this was about tethering, they would simply pull those non-root apps from the market and block tethering.

 

[OneTenderRebel]

so I finally read this thing and I must admit I wouldn't mind if phones were unable to be rooted. I mean yeah I like being able to root my phone, change theme's, ROM's, and so on. But I dont care about tethering....pretty much anything my laptop can do my Droid 2 can do as well. So no need to tether. In addition ever since I rooted my phone I have thoughts of just going back to stock and being done with it.

This is not, nor has it ever been about tethering. If it was, they would have pulled the apps from the Market and put a stop to it with a simple software update, or throttled people who were obviously tethering.

To all of you condemning tethering, stop it. If you are rooted for any reason, you have ZERO room to point fingers. None.

You violated your ToS as much as anyone that tethers.

The joke is on you, as you feel that you are somehow "above" the people that tether, because they are stealing while you are not. False. You are stealing as well, by removing the bloat and crap that someone paid Verizon to put and KEEP on there. You are stealing when you install an app for free, that gives you a feature that Verizon charges for. You are stealing when you return your phone, knowing that the warranty was void the second you rooted it.

The bottom line, is that VZW is not going after tetherers. They are going after ROOTERS. They will cite tethering because that helps them justify going after rooters in general, because in their eyes, it is rooting that ENABLES tethering. And removing bloat. And installing apps that VZW would rather charge you for. Etc...

They do not care if you personally never tethered, they really don't. What they care about is that if you root, then you have the ABILITY to tether, or remove the bloat, etc... Whether you do it or not is irrelevant, merely being rooted allows you those options, and they do not want you to have those options, period.

So whether you tether or not, you should be against this whole thing. Because if you just root to theme your phone and improve battery life, you are being judged GUILTY of tethering/removing bloat and all the rest, just because you have the potential to do those things.

That is no different that accusing someone of drunk driving, simply because they have a car and beer at home. Just because I have the ability to get drunk and drive, doesn't mean that I am doing it. So locking me up because the potential is there, is morally and legally wrong.

Just as taking away guns from the 80 million or so legal gun owners in the US, who on average have less than 0.005% of them commit violent crimes with those guns, would be wrong, simply because having the gun would ENABLE them to commit the crimes. The fact is, the majority of them are not, so proclaiming them guilty simply because they have the MEANS to do it, is wrong.

That's what this is about. They want to control the phones, so that they can control the content and increase fees. In order to do that, they need to eliminate the ability to root.

They will cite tethering and some other things that have some degree of merit, but they are not really interested in that. It's a means to an end.

It's an argument to get people on board with what their real goal is; To control content and increase fees.

So I don't care if you tether or not. It's a moot argument. If you root, for any reason, you are just as guilty in VZW's eyes. You are not better than a tetherer, and it gets annoying to see some of you pretend to be.

It would be like I am sitting in a holding cell for reckless driving, and you are looking down your nose at me, while you yourself are in the same cell for buying weed. You(the general term) come off as a hypocrite.

You keep trying to make this out to be that people are condemning people who tether. Its not about that at all. I rooted my phone I know its against the ToS. But because I did root doesn't mean I somehow now think I am above the ToS. You are literally arguing your point with no one.

sent from the great depths of my phones internet (thanks Al Gore)

 

[dfuser312553]

one thing about not being able to root is the chances of "bricking" your device just got reduced to the chances of being struck by lightning or winning the powerball....instead of the 50\50 chance we are on right now.

Maybe there's something I don't know about newer phones, but I've still yet to hear about someone who truly bricked an android phone while rooting. I'm sure someone out there figured out a way, but in no way should it be a 50/50 chance!

One reason Moto's are so hard to brick is because of p3 getting sbf's.

 

[nerdslogic]

one thing about not being able to root is the chances of "bricking" your device just got reduced to the chances of being struck by lightning or winning the powerball....instead of the 50\50 chance we are on right now.

Maybe there's something I don't know about newer phones, but I've still yet to hear about someone who truly bricked an android phone while rooting. I'm sure someone out there figured out a way, but in no way should it be a 50/50 chance!

Josh

I was totally exaggerating.....we are actually probably only running a 5% to 10% chance of bricking.

so I finally read this thing and I must admit I wouldn't mind if phones were unable to be rooted. I mean yeah I like being able to root my phone, change theme's, ROM's, and so on. But I dont care about tethering....pretty much anything my laptop can do my Droid 2 can do as well. So no need to tether. In addition ever since I rooted my phone I have thoughts of just going back to stock and being done with it.

This is not, nor has it ever been about tethering. If it was, they would have pulled the apps from the Market and put a stop to it with a simple software update, or throttled people who were obviously tethering.

To all of you condemning tethering, stop it. If you are rooted for any reason, you have ZERO room to point fingers. None.

You violated your ToS as much as anyone that tethers.

The joke is on you, as you feel that you are somehow "above" the people that tether, because they are stealing while you are not. False. You are stealing as well, by removing the bloat and crap that someone paid Verizon to put and KEEP on there. You are stealing when you install an app for free, that gives you a feature that Verizon charges for. You are stealing when you return your phone, knowing that the warranty was void the second you rooted it.

The bottom line, is that VZW is not going after tetherers. They are going after ROOTERS. They will cite tethering because that helps them justify going after rooters in general, because in their eyes, it is rooting that ENABLES tethering. And removing bloat. And installing apps that VZW would rather charge you for. Etc...

They do not care if you personally never tethered, they really don't. What they care about is that if you root, then you have the ABILITY to tether, or remove the bloat, etc... Whether you do it or not is irrelevant, merely being rooted allows you those options, and they do not want you to have those options, period.

So whether you tether or not, you should be against this whole thing. Because if you just root to theme your phone and improve battery life, you are being judged GUILTY of tethering/removing bloat and all the rest, just because you have the potential to do those things.

That is no different that accusing someone of drunk driving, simply because they have a car and beer at home. Just because I have the ability to get drunk and drive, doesn't mean that I am doing it. So locking me up because the potential is there, is morally and legally wrong.

Just as taking away guns from the 80 million or so legal gun owners in the US, who on average have less than 0.005% of them commit violent crimes with those guns, would be wrong, simply because having the gun would ENABLE them to commit the crimes. The fact is, the majority of them are not, so proclaiming them guilty simply because they have the MEANS to do it, is wrong.

That's what this is about. They want to control the phones, so that they can control the content and increase fees. In order to do that, they need to eliminate the ability to root.

They will cite tethering and some other things that have some degree of merit, but they are not really interested in that. It's a means to an end.

It's an argument to get people on board with what their real goal is; To control content and increase fees.

So I don't care if you tether or not. It's a moot argument. If you root, for any reason, you are just as guilty in VZW's eyes. You are not better than a tetherer, and it gets annoying to see some of you pretend to be.

It would be like I am sitting in a holding cell for reckless driving, and you are looking down your nose at me, while you yourself are in the same cell for buying weed. You(the general term) come off as a hypocrite.

oh I understand what this is implying. And I never said anything negative about tethering....i think it's awesome to be able to do, I just don't do it because I don't see the need. But there is nothing wrong with tethering in my eyes.

I think you read my post wrong. I am on the side of the rooted.....I was just saying that I am not totally against going all stock again. That is all I was saying.

IMO.....as much as I love flashing ROM's I have noticed that almost EVERY SINGLE ONE has something.....SOMETHING....that doesn't work right. In comparison to the official releases where everything works. For instance Liberty= no charge light.....very very minor, doesn't affect anything, but it is not working.

You get my drift? I am not better nor worse than anyone....nor am I a "victim" or "not guilty" I am just as guilty and finding immense amounts of pleasure in doing so.dancedroid

 

[SquireSCA]

so I finally read this thing and I must admit I wouldn't mind if phones were unable to be rooted. I mean yeah I like being able to root my phone, change theme's, ROM's, and so on. But I dont care about tethering....pretty much anything my laptop can do my Droid 2 can do as well. So no need to tether. In addition ever since I rooted my phone I have thoughts of just going back to stock and being done with it.

This is not, nor has it ever been about tethering. If it was, they would have pulled the apps from the Market and put a stop to it with a simple software update, or throttled people who were obviously tethering.

To all of you condemning tethering, stop it. If you are rooted for any reason, you have ZERO room to point fingers. None.

You violated your ToS as much as anyone that tethers.

The joke is on you, as you feel that you are somehow "above" the people that tether, because they are stealing while you are not. False. You are stealing as well, by removing the bloat and crap that someone paid Verizon to put and KEEP on there. You are stealing when you install an app for free, that gives you a feature that Verizon charges for. You are stealing when you return your phone, knowing that the warranty was void the second you rooted it.

The bottom line, is that VZW is not going after tetherers. They are going after ROOTERS. They will cite tethering because that helps them justify going after rooters in general, because in their eyes, it is rooting that ENABLES tethering. And removing bloat. And installing apps that VZW would rather charge you for. Etc...

They do not care if you personally never tethered, they really don't. What they care about is that if you root, then you have the ABILITY to tether, or remove the bloat, etc... Whether you do it or not is irrelevant, merely being rooted allows you those options, and they do not want you to have those options, period.

So whether you tether or not, you should be against this whole thing. Because if you just root to theme your phone and improve battery life, you are being judged GUILTY of tethering/removing bloat and all the rest, just because you have the potential to do those things.

That is no different that accusing someone of drunk driving, simply because they have a car and beer at home. Just because I have the ability to get drunk and drive, doesn't mean that I am doing it. So locking me up because the potential is there, is morally and legally wrong.

Just as taking away guns from the 80 million or so legal gun owners in the US, who on average have less than 0.005% of them commit violent crimes with those guns, would be wrong, simply because having the gun would ENABLE them to commit the crimes. The fact is, the majority of them are not, so proclaiming them guilty simply because they have the MEANS to do it, is wrong.

That's what this is about. They want to control the phones, so that they can control the content and increase fees. In order to do that, they need to eliminate the ability to root.

They will cite tethering and some other things that have some degree of merit, but they are not really interested in that. It's a means to an end.

It's an argument to get people on board with what their real goal is; To control content and increase fees.

So I don't care if you tether or not. It's a moot argument. If you root, for any reason, you are just as guilty in VZW's eyes. You are not better than a tetherer, and it gets annoying to see some of you pretend to be.

It would be like I am sitting in a holding cell for reckless driving, and you are looking down your nose at me, while you yourself are in the same cell for buying weed. You(the general term) come off as a hypocrite.

You keep trying to make this out to be that people are condemning people who tether. Its not about that at all. I rooted my phone I know its against the ToS. But because I did root doesn't mean I somehow now think I am above the ToS. You are literally arguing your point with no one.

sent from the great depths of my phones internet (thanks Al Gore)

Oh, I don't think that I am arguing with nobody. LOL

There are several people reading this that it applies to, and they know it. ;-)

Anyway, the point is simple, if you root, you are guilty and they want to put a stop to it. Doesn't matter what you do or don't do with your root, the fact that you root puts a target on your back in VZW's eyes...

So arguing about tethering, is not only silly, it is what VZW wants, because out of this whole fiasco it is one of the only points that they can make that will hold any water. So even if tethering through rooting is not really costing them much money, it gives credibility to their stance and helps them with what their real motivation and agenda is.

So the more that people focus on tethering, and ignore the big picture, the better it is for VZW.

Just food for thought...

 

[SquireSCA]

one thing about not being able to root is the chances of "bricking" your device just got reduced to the chances of being struck by lightning or winning the powerball....instead of the 50\50 chance we are on right now.

Maybe there's something I don't know about newer phones, but I've still yet to hear about someone who truly bricked an android phone while rooting. I'm sure someone out there figured out a way, but in no way should it be a 50/50 chance!

Josh

I was totally exaggerating.....we are actually probably only running a 5% to 10% chance of bricking.

so I finally read this thing and I must admit I wouldn't mind if phones were unable to be rooted. I mean yeah I like being able to root my phone, change theme's, ROM's, and so on. But I dont care about tethering....pretty much anything my laptop can do my Droid 2 can do as well. So no need to tether. In addition ever since I rooted my phone I have thoughts of just going back to stock and being done with it.

This is not, nor has it ever been about tethering. If it was, they would have pulled the apps from the Market and put a stop to it with a simple software update, or throttled people who were obviously tethering.

To all of you condemning tethering, stop it. If you are rooted for any reason, you have ZERO room to point fingers. None.

You violated your ToS as much as anyone that tethers.

The joke is on you, as you feel that you are somehow "above" the people that tether, because they are stealing while you are not. False. You are stealing as well, by removing the bloat and crap that someone paid Verizon to put and KEEP on there. You are stealing when you install an app for free, that gives you a feature that Verizon charges for. You are stealing when you return your phone, knowing that the warranty was void the second you rooted it.

The bottom line, is that VZW is not going after tetherers. They are going after ROOTERS. They will cite tethering because that helps them justify going after rooters in general, because in their eyes, it is rooting that ENABLES tethering. And removing bloat. And installing apps that VZW would rather charge you for. Etc...

They do not care if you personally never tethered, they really don't. What they care about is that if you root, then you have the ABILITY to tether, or remove the bloat, etc... Whether you do it or not is irrelevant, merely being rooted allows you those options, and they do not want you to have those options, period.

So whether you tether or not, you should be against this whole thing. Because if you just root to theme your phone and improve battery life, you are being judged GUILTY of tethering/removing bloat and all the rest, just because you have the potential to do those things.

That is no different that accusing someone of drunk driving, simply because they have a car and beer at home. Just because I have the ability to get drunk and drive, doesn't mean that I am doing it. So locking me up because the potential is there, is morally and legally wrong.

Just as taking away guns from the 80 million or so legal gun owners in the US, who on average have less than 0.005% of them commit violent crimes with those guns, would be wrong, simply because having the gun would ENABLE them to commit the crimes. The fact is, the majority of them are not, so proclaiming them guilty simply because they have the MEANS to do it, is wrong.

That's what this is about. They want to control the phones, so that they can control the content and increase fees. In order to do that, they need to eliminate the ability to root.

They will cite tethering and some other things that have some degree of merit, but they are not really interested in that. It's a means to an end.

It's an argument to get people on board with what their real goal is; To control content and increase fees.

So I don't care if you tether or not. It's a moot argument. If you root, for any reason, you are just as guilty in VZW's eyes. You are not better than a tetherer, and it gets annoying to see some of you pretend to be.

It would be like I am sitting in a holding cell for reckless driving, and you are looking down your nose at me, while you yourself are in the same cell for buying weed. You(the general term) come off as a hypocrite.

oh I understand what this is implying. And I never said anything negative about tethering....i think it's awesome to be able to do, I just don't do it because I don't see the need. But there is nothing wrong with tethering in my eyes.

I think you read my post wrong. I am on the side of the rooted.....I was just saying that I am not totally against going all stock again. That is all I was saying.

IMO.....as much as I love flashing ROM's I have noticed that almost EVERY SINGLE ONE has something.....SOMETHING....that doesn't work right. In comparison to the official releases where everything works. For instance Liberty= no charge light.....very very minor, doesn't affect anything, but it is not working.

You get my drift? I am not better nor worse than anyone....nor am I a "victim" or "not guilty" I am just as guilty and finding immense amounts of pleasure in doing so.dancedroid

I merely grabbed your post and responded as it gave me a thought of how to explain my stance and allowed me to get on my soap box and pontificate.

 

[TheTyler0013]

so I finally read this thing and I must admit I wouldn't mind if phones were unable to be rooted. I mean yeah I like being able to root my phone, change theme's, ROM's, and so on. But I dont care about tethering....pretty much anything my laptop can do my Droid 2 can do as well. So no need to tether. In addition ever since I rooted my phone I have thoughts of just going back to stock and being done with it.

Uh u can tether without root....

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

Which simply makes the point that if all this was about tethering, they would simply pull those non-root apps from the market and block tethering.

It's ALL ABOUT $$$$$$$$$ when in all reality IF this happens they will lose A LOT of $$$$$$$$

I have loved Verizon but this is making me question them.

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

 

[OneTenderRebel]

This is not, nor has it ever been about tethering. If it was, they would have pulled the apps from the Market and put a stop to it with a simple software update, or throttled people who were obviously tethering.

To all of you condemning tethering, stop it. If you are rooted for any reason, you have ZERO room to point fingers. None.

You violated your ToS as much as anyone that tethers.

The joke is on you, as you feel that you are somehow "above" the people that tether, because they are stealing while you are not. False. You are stealing as well, by removing the bloat and crap that someone paid Verizon to put and KEEP on there. You are stealing when you install an app for free, that gives you a feature that Verizon charges for. You are stealing when you return your phone, knowing that the warranty was void the second you rooted it.

The bottom line, is that VZW is not going after tetherers. They are going after ROOTERS. They will cite tethering because that helps them justify going after rooters in general, because in their eyes, it is rooting that ENABLES tethering. And removing bloat. And installing apps that VZW would rather charge you for. Etc...

They do not care if you personally never tethered, they really don't. What they care about is that if you root, then you have the ABILITY to tether, or remove the bloat, etc... Whether you do it or not is irrelevant, merely being rooted allows you those options, and they do not want you to have those options, period.

So whether you tether or not, you should be against this whole thing. Because if you just root to theme your phone and improve battery life, you are being judged GUILTY of tethering/removing bloat and all the rest, just because you have the potential to do those things.

That is no different that accusing someone of drunk driving, simply because they have a car and beer at home. Just because I have the ability to get drunk and drive, doesn't mean that I am doing it. So locking me up because the potential is there, is morally and legally wrong.

Just as taking away guns from the 80 million or so legal gun owners in the US, who on average have less than 0.005% of them commit violent crimes with those guns, would be wrong, simply because having the gun would ENABLE them to commit the crimes. The fact is, the majority of them are not, so proclaiming them guilty simply because they have the MEANS to do it, is wrong.

That's what this is about. They want to control the phones, so that they can control the content and increase fees. In order to do that, they need to eliminate the ability to root.

They will cite tethering and some other things that have some degree of merit, but they are not really interested in that. It's a means to an end.

It's an argument to get people on board with what their real goal is; To control content and increase fees.

So I don't care if you tether or not. It's a moot argument. If you root, for any reason, you are just as guilty in VZW's eyes. You are not better than a tetherer, and it gets annoying to see some of you pretend to be.

It would be like I am sitting in a holding cell for reckless driving, and you are looking down your nose at me, while you yourself are in the same cell for buying weed. You(the general term) come off as a hypocrite.

You keep trying to make this out to be that people are condemning people who tether. Its not about that at all. I rooted my phone I know its against the ToS. But because I did root doesn't mean I somehow now think I am above the ToS. You are literally arguing your point with no one.

sent from the great depths of my phones internet (thanks Al Gore)

Oh, I don't think that I am arguing with nobody. LOL

There are several people reading this that it applies to, and they know it. ;-)

Anyway, the point is simple, if you root, you are guilty and they want to put a stop to it. Doesn't matter what you do or don't do with your root, the fact that you root puts a target on your back in VZW's eyes...

So arguing about tethering, is not only silly, it is what VZW wants, because out of this whole fiasco it is one of the only points that they can make that will hold any water. So even if tethering through rooting is not really costing them much money, it gives credibility to their stance and helps them with what their real motivation and agenda is.

So the more that people focus on tethering, and ignore the big picture, the better it is for VZW.

Just food for thought...

I agree with you there, tethering is just a limb on this giant tree. Is it a factor? Sure, but a low one. This thread has turned into the official tether thread so people keep using it as an example.

sent from the great depths of my phones internet (thanks Al Gore)

 

[SquireSCA]

I agree with you there, tethering is just a limb on this giant tree. Is it a factor? Sure, but a low one. This thread has turned into the official tether thread so people keep using it as an example.

sent from the great depths of my phones internet (thanks Al Gore)

And that was why I made that post, to hopefully get some people to understand that while tethering is the easy thing to dwell on, it really is small potatoes when you look at the big picture.

It isn't what this is about. It is simply part of the justification for what it is really about.

 

[OneTenderRebel]

I know it's been said a thousand times already but it truly is all about the money. If any of us were a big business owner we would be doing the same thing. We like to sit back and think "oh yeah if I owned VZW I would let every phone be totally open" but when faced with the reality of you losing possibly millions upon millions of dollars because of that, you would probably go the same road VZW is.

 

[razor02097]

I admit I didn't read 66 pages... I got to about 20...

The 3 main things I use root for...

ROMs
Themes
Titanium backup

To be perfectly honest I can do without the first 2 things... however the 3rd I believe is almost necessary! Sure there are apps on the market that backup the apk of apps but none I know of can backup your SMS, preferences, bookmarks, email account settings, app data and do all this in a batch operation. Even if you can backup all those things... without root you can never restore them.

I couldn't care less about tethering. Most operations I do on my computer I can do on my phone.

 

[OneTenderRebel]

I also think we will see possibly one phone released a year that is similar to the Nexus line. They will use that to try and please the modding community while still making all their money on every other phone.

 

[BigMcGuire]

It doesn't make sense to me. If we are such a small and insignificant community (as many people state here) - why is Verizon going after us rooters? Yeah, take that and think about it for awhile. If we're so small and insignificant, why would Verizon be going after us? Verizon has better things to do than piss off 1-2% of its customers... I think manufactures and Verizon just want to make money and it so happens that locking bootloaders saves them money (warranty replacements) and keeps their sponsors happy. I honestly think that Verizon doesn't give a crap about rooters. If we are that small of a group and insignificant, that makes sense. HTC knows this as well, and conforming to Verizon's wishes, they locked the bootloader but didn't encrypt it for those of us that like to root our phones. Hopefully HTC will never encrypt.

I just hope that Google keeps selling their Nexus lineup or some Dev phone that isn't loaded with all that because that's the next phone I'm buying if I can't root.

 

[TheTyler0013]

Well P3 spoke out in another thread ....

I don't normally reply to post such as this, really this type of B.S. is below me so I've come to post this to tell anyone jumping to my defense that there is no need to.

Remember that when you engage in a discussion with fools, anyone looking at the conversation can not tell which of you is the fool.

So let it go, let them hate, we all know what is real and what is not. What puts a smile on my face is they will ***** and *****, but they will also use what ever TBH puts out.

So let us all leave this thread so that onlookers know who the fools are.

I don't mean him disrespect at all. I am just confused and want more info

 

[BigMcGuire]

Yeah, that was a pretty hate filled post. I respected the guy a lot from my OG Droid days and used his kernels quite a bit. But damn... lol Instead of defending or helping us see he just hated himself. Way to make friends.