The demise of a mobile app, Apple cult-style

[czerdrill]

it's a private company deciding not to include something in their product. there is a huge distinction between the two and i don't get how you fail to see that.

It's a company making exceptions to its own standards and guidelines in anti-competitive behavior. It's censorship in every definition of the word, being private or business interest doesn't change that. If you want to play semantics about it's "not censorship in the manner the OP suggests", fine, but it's still censorship. I'd argue there's not even a valid business reason for blocking that app, but as brilliant as Jobs is he makes stupid and petty decisions just like everyone else.

Again, you have a problem with blocking the website but can't make the connection that the trend is toward apps to make interfacing with the web easier. The line of net neutrality is moving and you don't even realize you've been caught standing on the side you oppose.

And, by the way, Business 101 says you don't publicly acknowledge upstart competition (free publicity) until it becomes a real threat and viable market force. Apple is feeling the heat and that has nothing to do with being a fanboy it's just an objective observation of reality.

making exceptions? really? can you direct me to the link of apple's app store review guidelines where it says "we will only block an app for pornographic or malicious content, and if an app does not fall into one of these two categories we have no power to block this app no matter how badly we want to?" you really, really don't think there's some kind of escape clause in their guidelines that say that they can block an app, any app if they choose to for their own reasons? show me the link where it says they can't do that, since you're confidently proclaiming that they're going against their policies...or was that just an assumption? your cousin's brother's roommate told you about the guidelines right? stop passing things off as fact with nothing to back it up.

again, they can't block you from visiting a website, but they can choose to not provide a way for you to get there...it's not rocket science. this android app, is most probably just like you said an interface to an online android magazine...if you want you can fire up safari on your iphone and visit the magazine...it won't be blocked, trust me...microsoft cannot say "this pc will not run firefox", but they can choose to not provide a "download firefox now!!!" link on every new PC...what part of this confuses you? let me know, and i'll try to explain it (again)

thanks for the "business 101" lesson....so that means you can now acknowledge that every phone manufacturer on the planet is "feeling the heat" from Apple since all phones are immediately dubbed "iPhone killers" (an acknowledgment of Apple) upon release, right? so then why is it when apple acknowledges android it's because they're terrified of what's happening? isn't every company terrified of Apple, then by your (flawed) logic?

so in summary....three things:

1) Show me the Apple app store guidelines which detail the reasons why an app can be rejected and show me where it's only pornographic and malicious content that can be rejected and not content that apple deems
2) still waiting for the website with the anything goes off topic forum
3) if you claim apple censors, then so does every other website, and software company on the planet in some way so why is what apple doing a big deal?

 

[DroidMastar2]

I don't see how alienating consumers is good business in anyway. I would hope that getting and maintaining customers is the number 1 rule in selling your product.

Sorry IMO this is bad business and just short of censorship.

How is it alienating customers if the only people that would see apps in the apple app store (for the most part) would be users of Apple products? Wouldn't not allowing an app that promotes a competitive product help to maintain customers?

 

[czerdrill]

I don't see how alienating consumers is good business in anyway. I would hope that getting and maintaining customers is the number 1 rule in selling your product.

Sorry IMO this is bad business and just short of censorship.

How is it alienating customers if the only people that would see apps in the apple app store (for the most part) would be users of Apple products? Wouldn't not allowing an app that promotes a competitive product help to maintain customers?

it would, right? makes perfect sense. still don't know why people don't get this.

 

[pyro6128]

Its ridiculous that people still say its wrong of apple to remove an app that discusses their competition. They're in business to make money, not educate the public on alternative products. And to compare an app store, which apple owns, to the internet, which isn't owned by anyone, is like comparing apples and sneakers, its just makes zero sense. It's a false argument.

Like it was said before, apple didn't get to where they are by not knowing what they're doing. To the people crying foul, start a business then provide ads for your competitors. See how great that works out for you.

 

[czerdrill]

Its ridiculous that people still say its wrong of apple to remove an app that discusses their competition. They're in business to make money, not educate the public on alternative products. And to compare an app store, which apple owns, to the internet, which isn't owned by anyone, is like comparing apples and sneakers, its just makes zero sense. It's a false argument.

Like it was said before, apple didn't get to where they are by not knowing what they're doing. To the people crying foul, start a business then provide ads for your competitors. See how great that works out for you.

isn't it hilarious just how little business sense these people have? because a company doesn't want to advertise their competitor on their own software, they're a cult. the lack of sense that makes is staggering

 

[OneTenderRebel]

This has absolutely nothing to do with letting there be fair competition. This is Apple saying they don't want an app promoting and advertising Android in THEIR OWN MARKET. Not allowing fair competition would be Apple telling At&t "ok you can carry the iPhone but you cannot carry Blackberry or Android handsets". People are trying to twist this argument anyway they can to make Apple look bad but it's just not true in this case.

 

[czerdrill]

This has absolutely nothing to do with letting there be fair competition. This is Apple saying they don't want an app promoting and advertising Android in THEIR OWN MARKET. Not allowing fair competition would be Apple telling At&t "ok you can carry the iPhone but you cannot carry Blackberry or Android handsets". People are trying to twist this argument anyway they can to make Apple look bad but it's just not true in this case.

i've gotta be honest, i had lost all faith in droidforums as an objective place haha, but the last three posters at least understand what this really is...i'm waiting for one of the "apple is a cult" people to come back and continue to push their flawed logic

 

[pyro6128]

Yea its good to see some people with common sense. It restores my faith in humanity

 

[SGTiger]

A little dose of reality here. Why would it be in Apples interest to have an app that centered around android? That's business imho, not censorship.

I disagree with hookbill for the 432nd time. How would you like it if your Sony TV didn't allow LG commercials, or your cable provider didn't allow satellite tv commercials? How about if your grocery store only sold the store brand of cookies instead of Keebler? I can think of a thousand examples. It doesn't make good business sense for Apple to do this because it is terrible publicity. Their customers are slowly going to defect due to these closed minded policies.

 

[pyro6128]

A little dose of reality here. Why would it be in Apples interest to have an app that centered around android? That's business imho, not censorship.

I disagree with hookbill for the 432nd time. How would you like it if your Sony TV didn't allow LG commercials, or your cable provider didn't allow satellite tv commercials? How about if your grocery store only sold the store brand of cookies instead of Keebler? I can think of a thousand examples. It doesn't make good business sense for Apple to do this because it is terrible publicity. Their customers are slowly going to defect due to these closed minded policies.

Again, this is a false argument. Sony doesnt own all of the television networks, so they can't dictate what is shown. And your cable provider can't do that because they don't own the channels, they provide a service. Apple owns the app store, it is their property, they can do with it as they wish. It makes perfect business sense. Think about it this way, if you went to a ford dealership, do you expect them to sell you a Saturn? Do you think they will have brochures for other cars? When was the last time Gap sold Abercrombie and Fitch clothes in their store?

 

[OneTenderRebel]

A little dose of reality here. Why would it be in Apples interest to have an app that centered around android? That's business imho, not censorship.

I disagree with hookbill for the 432nd time. How would you like it if your Sony TV didn't allow LG commercials, or your cable provider didn't allow satellite tv commercials? How about if your grocery store only sold the store brand of cookies instead of Keebler? I can think of a thousand examples. It doesn't make good business sense for Apple to do this because it is terrible publicity. Their customers are slowly going to defect due to these closed minded policies.

Those are completely outrageous examples. A better example would be Apple not selling Dell products in their stores........oh wait, they don't because why would they??? It makes no sense at all! The Apple app store is like a little apple store where only apple stuff is sold and should be sold. If I own a store that sells only OneTenderRebel products and I make direct profit off of those products, why would I want someone else promoting their products in my store???

 

[Hot Sauce]

A little dose of reality here. Why would it be in Apples interest to have an app that centered around android? That's business imho, not censorship.

I disagree with hookbill for the 432nd time. How would you like it if your Sony TV didn't allow LG commercials, or your cable provider didn't allow satellite tv commercials? How about if your grocery store only sold the store brand of cookies instead of Keebler? I can think of a thousand examples. It doesn't make good business sense for Apple to do this because it is terrible publicity. Their customers are slowly going to defect due to these closed minded policies.

Those are completely outrageous examples. A better example would be Apple not selling Dell products in their stores........oh wait, they don't because why would they??? It makes no sense at all! The Apple app store is like a little apple store where only apple stuff is sold and should be sold. If I own a store that sells only OneTenderRebel products and I make direct profit off of those products, why would I want someone else promoting their products in my store???

I'll take (1) OneTenderRebel doll "It's not a DOLL, it's an ACTION FIGURE!!!" and (1) OneTenderRebel coffee mug. I agree Apple is a business and as such they dont have to sell stuff they dont want to. Good business or not thats up to their business model .

Original Droid
Avalon

 

[kodiak799]

thanks for the "business 101" lesson....
so in summary....three things:

1) Show me the Apple app store guidelines which detail the reasons why an app can be rejected and show me where it's only pornographic and malicious content that can be rejected and not content that apple deems
2) still waiting for the website with the anything goes off topic forum
3) if you claim apple censors, then so does every other website, and software company on the planet in some way so why is what apple doing a big deal?

LOL, you and I have been down this road before. You know full well the rejection of this app is not at all consistent with IOS app approval policy and you're just being argumentative. But here you go anyway:

1) There's obviously more but the spirit and intent of their policy is made crystal clear:
App Store Review Guidelines - App Store Resource Center

2) This very website has an "Off topic" sub forum. I never said "anything goes", but almost anything excluding illegal topics does on many websites. I mean, that can't have been a serious question defending your point of view, was it?

3) There are degrees of censorship. I mean, what is it, do you agree this is censorship or not? Censorship for valid reasons (language, adult content) is typically considered ok, even appropriate. Censorship for no other reason than anti-competitive ones is usually frowned upon, particularly by a little known organization called the DOJ. Again, MS lost a court case regarding similar behavior so you really don't have a leg to stand on. To use your example, it's perfectly ok for MS not to have a link to d/l Firefox, it is wrong (and illegal) to prevent the d/l all together. You can't see the similarity here - Apple controls the software for their product. They have a monopoly on that service/feature. Their preventing the app from being installed is absolutely the same as if MS prevented you from installing Firefox, yet you think one is wrong and the other is ok.

So, in summary, it IS censorship for petty and foolish reasons. Precisely the sort of behavior that has turned a lot of people off of Apple products. I personally don't really care either way, I just find it comical that Steve Jobs does.

 

[czerdrill]

thanks for the "business 101" lesson....
so in summary....three things:

1) Show me the Apple app store guidelines which detail the reasons why an app can be rejected and show me where it's only pornographic and malicious content that can be rejected and not content that apple deems
2) still waiting for the website with the anything goes off topic forum
3) if you claim apple censors, then so does every other website, and software company on the planet in some way so why is what apple doing a big deal?

LOL, you and I have been down this road before. You know full well the rejection of this app is not at all consistent with IOS app approval policy and you're just being argumentative. But here you go anyway:

1) There's obviously more but the spirit and intent of their policy is made crystal clear:
App Store Review Guidelines - App Store Resource Center

2) This very website has an "Off topic" sub forum. I never said "anything goes", but almost anything excluding illegal topics does on many websites. I mean, that can't have been a serious question defending your point of view, was it?

3) There are degrees of censorship. I mean, what is it, do you agree this is censorship or not? Censorship for valid reasons (language, adult content) is typically considered ok, even appropriate. Censorship for no other reason than anti-competitive ones is usually frowned upon, particularly by a little known organization called the DOJ. Again, MS lost a court case regarding similar behavior so you really don't have a leg to stand on. To use your example, it's perfectly ok for MS not to have a link to d/l Firefox, it is wrong (and illegal) to prevent the d/l all together. You can't see the similarity here - Apple controls the software for their product. They have a monopoly on that service/feature. Their preventing the app from being installed is absolutely the same as if MS prevented you from installing Firefox, yet you think one is wrong and the other is ok.

1) Thanks for non informative link. When I click the "App Store Review Guidelines for iOS apps" link which, I have to assume will lead me to the app store review guidelines for iOS apps, I am taken to a log in page that says I must be a registered developer with Apple to continue. Now, are you a developer with Apple? If you are please provide a cut and paste of the guidelines, and please clearly mark where it says the only reasons they can ban an app is because of malicious or pornographic content. If you're not a dev, then how exactly do you know what the guidelines say? Did someone reveal them to you just before you started this pointless argument with me? Or are you just assuming, like you constantly do...no need to answer that cuz it's obvious. or (and i hope this is not the case because your naivety would know no bounds), do you think their guidelines are that little blurb that says we want apps to be free of explicit or malicious material and there is no way it says anything else in the actual text of the guidelines?

2) Has nothing to do with the argument, and your bringing it up confused me at first too. You seem to have forgotten that you are the one that said there are sites that in your words allow "almost anything under the sun". I asked for a link to such a site. You didn't provide one. Telling me that droidforums.net has an off topic section doesn't tell me anything or further your statement that there are sites that allow "almost anything under the sun"...care to explain why you even bought that up if it "can't have been a serious question defending my point of view"...right? Your exact words were: "Many other websites have "off-topic" forums where virtually everything under the sun is free to be discussed" I countered that that is not true. So again, what was the point of you telling me about off topic forums on other sites?

3) you're arguing two completely different things. Microsoft not allowing the download is illegal, because it is preventing users from ever using that software on a PC. Apple not allowing the app is not the same thing, because an iphone user can still get that information by simply opening up their browser. the "app" is just a container which leads to information on the internet. Apple is not banning the content, or banning Android. They're banning an app in their private store. If I own a store and I don't want to sell tomatoes does that mean your tomato buying days are done? No. You'll find another way to get your tomatoes. It's my prerogative if I want to sell tomatoes in my store. You can't tell me I have to sell tomatoes because its censorship. I don't block you from buying your tomatoes elsewhere, in fact i encourage your tomato buying habits, you're just not going to do it in my store. You're just making no sense at all. The content of the app is freely available to users of every phone in existence including the iphone. I don't understand why you cant grasp the concept of public vs private. if you sign up for a service, you have to abide by their rules and guidelines. whining about censorship to a private company is stupidity because you would hopefully know what you're getting into when you sign up. every internet user can attack every site on the internet as promoting censorship and by your flawed logic they'd be right...how do you not see how dumb your argument is...and again, every company in the world has censored at some point, so why is apple a cult for doing this? you refuse to answer that question other then to say Steve Jobs is petty and stupid. Google itself has censored things, are they a cult?

 

[czerdrill]

LOL, you and I have been down this road before. You know full well the rejection of this app is not at all consistent with IOS app approval policy and you're just being argumentative.

i have to comment on this as well. first, do you have a list of all apps that Apple has rejected from the app store since its inception? if not how are you just assuming that every single rejected app had malicious or pornographic content? My common sense is not me being argumentative, it's me using my common sense. Do you really think a company like Apple wouldn't cover their ass and include some kind of clause that says they can reject an app for whatever reason they see fit? No...do you really think that? You really think they'd overlook the case that they reject an app and someone complains or tries to sue them for "censorship" or some other hackneyed idiocy? I mean geez, it's like you think Apple is run by a bunch of morons or slaves who have no education and don't know how to create a successful business. If you do, I would be dumbfounded at your lack of any kind of business sense whatsoever. Of course, the majority of apps that are rejected will be malicious or pornographic ones, but do you really believe if they reject an app for some other reason that it's "OMG, they're going against all their policies!!" I mean...really? Gimme a break.