everybody should watch that video - great run down, and great "forest" perspective on what's really going on and the big picture effects this could have
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[UPDATE] XDA, CyanogenMod joins Google & Wiki on Blackout
- Thread starter Malvado
- Start date
everybody should watch that video - great run down, and great "forest" perspective on what's really going on and the big picture effects this could have
Reading some of the comments on the link above, some of these people make great points:
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Another comment:
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He's right that SOPA/PIPA won't go away. The underlying issue is that the intellectual property industries no longer have control over their markets. They're bleeding from a million wounds. It's like a reporter getting raped in Tahrir Square. For every single person brought to justice, thousands melt back into anonymity and escape justice. If you think a Google/Wikipedia/Facebook protest is bad, imagine what it would look like if the content industry suddenly boycotts everything and refuses to allow any media providers to use their materials (all you'll get are reruns of old crappy shows)?
No more Hollywood.
No more Music industry.
No more Madison Avenue.
No more books.
No more magazines.
No more newspapers.
No more new technologies.
No more medicines.
There needs to be an acceptable compromise between those that produce content and those that consume it. Patents, trademarks, and copyrights are the foundation of our way of life. If everyone lazily copies stuff off of others without letting them have the chance to earn a living for what they produce, then we will have only sub-standard content. Don't get caught in the trap of getting so used to having free stuff that you forget that some of the best things you like cost something to produce.
"No more Hollywood.
No more Music industry.
No more Madison Avenue.
No more books.
No more magazines.
No more newspapers.
No more new technologies.
No more medicines.
There needs to be an acceptable compromise between those that produce content and those that consume it. Patents, trademarks, and copyrights are the foundation of our way of life. If everyone lazily copies stuff off of others without letting them have the chance to earn a living for what they produce, then we will have only sub-standard content. Don't get caught in the trap of getting so used to having free stuff that you forget that some of the best things you like cost something to produce.
Another comment:
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While my sentiments generally ride with the speaker's here, I must say it is a one-sided argument.
This seems to avoid the thought that there is any harm to creators and innovators thru the system as it exists today. Free content has become the mantra of liberation, but what is the individual's incentive to create if his work immediately becomes part of the commons?
The argument that existing copyright protections will suffice ignores the reality that immediate and universal distribution of a unique work will be irreversible, despite some later judgement by a court that said distribution was improper.
Free content has its dangers too. (eg journalism)
"This seems to avoid the thought that there is any harm to creators and innovators thru the system as it exists today. Free content has become the mantra of liberation, but what is the individual's incentive to create if his work immediately becomes part of the commons?
The argument that existing copyright protections will suffice ignores the reality that immediate and universal distribution of a unique work will be irreversible, despite some later judgement by a court that said distribution was improper.
Free content has its dangers too. (eg journalism)
Correct.
But SOPA/PIPA are not the way. They won't do very much, if anything at all, to actually stop piracy.
The answer is to get people to be willing to pay for stuff. Hard to do, I know, but that - not SOPA/PIPA - is what will solve the problem. It needs to be addressed at the root, not the surface.
All of these content creators are still making plenty of money. Have some of them taken a hit b/c of this? Sure. Have some of them fought back the right way, the way of due process, and won? Most definitely. To throw that process out the window and have things turned completely upside down in that system will have so many unintended consequences, it's ridiculous. Let alone the fact that it won't work. The amount of power and control that will be given to content creators & govt in this is not just a sidenote, either.
It's all the demorepublitarians' fault anyway.
See, I am against this bill like most of you are. I just admit that it is pretty much for selfish reasons. I admit that, and I don't have to create a "the sky is falling, all our interwebs will die!" argument to try and lend credibility to my desire to keep getting free stuff. LOL
lol... well maybe the "sky is falling" is a necessarily outrageous response to an equally outrageous proposal - if anything to get people's attention.
rubiksc00p
Senior Member
Haha... failz!
Nonono... if you go the constitution route, people will be all over it, if you go the pirating route, people will be all for it!You have to go with this slogan. "The government is a big interwebz eating troll, pass this law and he's headed toward your interwebz!!!"
*Disclaimer:* this post is all a joke! (I hope you didn't think I was serious!)
We need some lightheartedness in the middle of a fierce battle. :biggrin:Ok, just watched the video. Twice.
Very nice argument, helps clear things up. However, I do want to point out two things that I think the speaker misses, intentionally...
1) He talks about innocent until proven guilty and that we should not be treated as thieves on the internet. But aren't we? I mean seriously, let's be brutally honest here. Which of you reading this has never downloaded an MP3 that you didn't pay for? A movie? A game? Copy of Windows or some other app? Ripped a CD for a buddy, or copied a friend's music collection?
I would be willing to bet that of his audience that is all nodding their heads with him, 75% of them have used the internet to steal content of some sort or another. So I feel like many of them, and most of us, are hypocrites. We claim indignation and denounce this "attack on our freedom", but at the end of the day I didn't know that we had the freedom to steal what we didn't pay for. We do it, I do it, but let's not try to pretend that what I/We are doing is right.
2) I don't think that this is all just to stifle sharing and creation. I think that it is intended to keep others from sharing THEIR creations, first and foremost.
If we owned the materials that were being stolen and parsed out for free on the internet, I am betting that most of us would be singing a different tune than I see here in this thread. It's easy to be against SOPA when it isn't your product that is being ripped off...
Very nice argument, helps clear things up. However, I do want to point out two things that I think the speaker misses, intentionally...
1) He talks about innocent until proven guilty and that we should not be treated as thieves on the internet. But aren't we? I mean seriously, let's be brutally honest here. Which of you reading this has never downloaded an MP3 that you didn't pay for? A movie? A game? Copy of Windows or some other app? Ripped a CD for a buddy, or copied a friend's music collection?
I would be willing to bet that of his audience that is all nodding their heads with him, 75% of them have used the internet to steal content of some sort or another. So I feel like many of them, and most of us, are hypocrites. We claim indignation and denounce this "attack on our freedom", but at the end of the day I didn't know that we had the freedom to steal what we didn't pay for. We do it, I do it, but let's not try to pretend that what I/We are doing is right.
2) I don't think that this is all just to stifle sharing and creation. I think that it is intended to keep others from sharing THEIR creations, first and foremost.
If we owned the materials that were being stolen and parsed out for free on the internet, I am betting that most of us would be singing a different tune than I see here in this thread. It's easy to be against SOPA when it isn't your product that is being ripped off...
firefighterguy
Member
Plus one for honesty! Lol.
Now that it's settled down a little and I had a chance to cool my jets, to answer your question.
It does fall under the Constitution. The 1st Amendment - which is one many Rights being attacked - is in the Constitution. I took said Oath to defend it. I fought for it and never signed anything or took another Oath undoing the original Oath that I took. So, yes, it is a personal matter to me and feel very strongly about it.
And there is nothing on God's green Earth that will make me feel otherwise.
Stealing is bad. But you can't fix it this way. I can't remember the comedian's name who said this but he was right, "You can't fix stupid." Oh God, I just pirated. I just shut the site down! Lmao!
Lmao! You know, our Founding Fathers tried to rell us that we should NOT habe political parties. Look at where we are now......It's all the demorepublitarians' fault anyway.
Lmao! Plus one for lightheartednessHaha... failz!
You have to go with this slogan. "The government is a big interwebz eating troll, pass this law and he's headed toward your interwebz!!!"
*Disclaimer:* this post is all a joke! (I hope you didn't think I was serious!)
*Edited
____________________
"King Of The 'Self-Edit'"
____________________
"WE, THE PEOPLE"
____________________
I hope Google and others succeed in the SOPA pretest. And I hope it leaves a bad taste in the government's mouth. And it won't taste like a SOPA-pilla
____________________
The SOPA thing really brings home my signatures, doesn't it?
____________________
"Patriotism is supporting your Country at all times. And your government only when it deserves it" --Mark Twain
____________________
Are you an Ameri-CAN? Or are you an Ameri-CAN'T?
____________________
Isn't it funny how when you put the word "The" and the word "IRS" together, it spells "theirs? " Coincidence? I think not.
Gentlemen refresh the page and look to the top of your browsers......
firefighterguy
Member
ROFLMAO!!!!! "AmericanCensorship.org." AAAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
____________________
"King Of The 'Self-Edit'"
____________________
"WE, THE PEOPLE"
____________________
I hope Google and others succeed in the SOPA pretest. And I hope it leaves a bad taste in the government's mouth. And it won't taste like a SOPA-pilla
____________________
The SOPA thing really brings home my signatures, doesn't it?
____________________
"Patriotism is supporting your Country at all times. And your government only when it deserves it" --Mark Twain
____________________
Are you an Ameri-CAN? Or are you an Ameri-CAN'T?
____________________
Isn't it funny how when you put the word "The" and the word "IRS" together, it spells "theirs? " Coincidence? I think not.
I still don't see why it is a Free Speech issue. You have a right to say what you want, but the truth is that you don't have a right to the Internet. Now, if you were talking to a friend at Starbuck's and you told him to go to The Pirate Bay to download Bio-Dome with Pauly Shore and some Exec from the MPAA jumped out of the alley and gagged you and stifled your ability to say that, then yes, I would agree with you that it is a Free Speech issue. Then I would slap you for promoting that crappy movie. 
But the Internet is just a medium, and we don't specifically have a Constitutional Right to do or say anything that we want on that medium... Just because we have been allowed to do so up till now, doesn't mean it will go on like that forever...
But the Internet is just a medium, and we don't specifically have a Constitutional Right to do or say anything that we want on that medium... Just because we have been allowed to do so up till now, doesn't mean it will go on like that forever...
I still don't see why it is a Free Speech issue. You have a right to say what you want, but the truth is that you don't have a right to the Internet. Now, if you were talking to a friend at Starbuck's and you told him to go to The Pirate Bay to download Bio-Dome with Pauly Shore and some Exec from the MPAA jumped out of the alley and gagged you and stifled your ability to say that, then yes, I would agree with you that it is a Free Speech issue. Then I would slap you for promoting that crappy movie.
But the Internet is just a medium, and we don't specifically have a Constitutional Right to do or say anything that we want on that medium... Just because we have been allowed to do so up till now, doesn't mean it will go on like that forever...
It's a free speech issue because it also removes content that is not in violation of copyright law. It doesn't just remove illegal speech, it removes speech that has nothing to do with the speech presenting the legal concern - thus bringing up a free speech issue.
EDIT: Let's see how many times we can say 'speech' in one argument! :biggrin:
It's easy to look at this issue and over-complicate it by seeing it as more than it is. Most people will agree that it is not fair to the creators of content to have their IP stolen, so something does need to be done. However, if you read SOPA and PIPA in detail you will find that these laws, as they are written, are far too broad and would ultimately be ineffectual. In the long run, it would more than likely, be a nightmare of legislation that would dampen civil liberties in a negative way and indirectly put too much power in the hands of corporate interests. Now, it is possible that not every corporation out there would abuse this power, but it is likely that at least one, if not more, would do so.
If we take a step back from the issue for a brief moment we can evaluate objectively. One of the first things that we can see is that the technology of the internet facilitated the ease with which we can share information in all its myriad forms (stories, music, movies games, etc). It is the root cause of the particular predicament that we are in, because it becomes so easy to take information and share it without consideration of the person that created it. Now, obviously it would be great if we could find a psychological solution in which everyone agrees not to take any form of media or information without paying for it first, but that is probably an unrealistic solution to be striving toward. It would be next to impossible to fight human nature. So, where does that leave us?
I submit the idea that laws will not be able to address this issue. No law that we pass will be adequate enough to either change everyone's behavior or be able to protect Intellectual Property rights properly. Perhaps the solution lies within the very thing that started the mess to begin with, technology itself. What we need is to work on a new DNS system that can effectively tag and track information itself, so that everyone knows exactly where a piece of information comes from and where it is going. In the long run, pure transparency could be the salvation we are seeking. Obviously, it is easy for me to sit here and suggest something that may be very difficult to accomplish, but sometimes the only way to think outside the box, is to get back in the box. I have read somewhere (and it was so long ago I don't remember where) that there are researchers working on a new version of the internet protocol right now that could eventually do exactly this.
Of course, this opens up the possibility of a truly frightening big brother situation when you gaze at it from the surface, because if everyone knew were everyone else was on the web, then your privacy would be violated; however, I am suggesting complete and total transparency. This would also mean that whomever might be watching you, is watched by everyone else too, like a giant internet super-democracy. It may be a pipe-dream, but thinking that a new law created by bureaucrats and politicians that don't really understand the first thing about technology would fix the situation is even more of a pipe-dream. Just my $25 cents...
If we take a step back from the issue for a brief moment we can evaluate objectively. One of the first things that we can see is that the technology of the internet facilitated the ease with which we can share information in all its myriad forms (stories, music, movies games, etc). It is the root cause of the particular predicament that we are in, because it becomes so easy to take information and share it without consideration of the person that created it. Now, obviously it would be great if we could find a psychological solution in which everyone agrees not to take any form of media or information without paying for it first, but that is probably an unrealistic solution to be striving toward. It would be next to impossible to fight human nature. So, where does that leave us?
I submit the idea that laws will not be able to address this issue. No law that we pass will be adequate enough to either change everyone's behavior or be able to protect Intellectual Property rights properly. Perhaps the solution lies within the very thing that started the mess to begin with, technology itself. What we need is to work on a new DNS system that can effectively tag and track information itself, so that everyone knows exactly where a piece of information comes from and where it is going. In the long run, pure transparency could be the salvation we are seeking. Obviously, it is easy for me to sit here and suggest something that may be very difficult to accomplish, but sometimes the only way to think outside the box, is to get back in the box. I have read somewhere (and it was so long ago I don't remember where) that there are researchers working on a new version of the internet protocol right now that could eventually do exactly this.
Of course, this opens up the possibility of a truly frightening big brother situation when you gaze at it from the surface, because if everyone knew were everyone else was on the web, then your privacy would be violated; however, I am suggesting complete and total transparency. This would also mean that whomever might be watching you, is watched by everyone else too, like a giant internet super-democracy. It may be a pipe-dream, but thinking that a new law created by bureaucrats and politicians that don't really understand the first thing about technology would fix the situation is even more of a pipe-dream. Just my $25 cents...