VZW disabling tethering apps from market

[gsdreams]

I love how people think that no matter what Verizon can't tell simply because they don't crack down.

Lets look at what is more important to Verizon, 4G and features to attract new customers and get more people on smartphones or going after tethers.

It isn't a matter of whether they can our can't, I guarantee the technology is out there, its a matter of what is more fiscally realistic.

Going after tethers is a shot in the dark as to whether they will lose the customer or get paid. Implementing 4G and more features is guaranteed revenue.

So, from a business perspective where would you spend you're money.

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[cynnar]

And it all comes down to this.

If anyone and I mean anyone has proof that you are stealing from them the will take action. You would take the most effective form of action to stop it.

You wouldn't say well my neighbor is stealing my tools so let me cover my driveway up to try and stop him.

If vzw can prove you tether and ant to stop you the would. The fact is no one has been hauled into court for tethering. You can say all you want well they just overlook it. WRONG. Defend vzw all you want the fact is they are out for money. They are not going to look the other way.

One last time where is the proof that vzw can tell who tethers?

Again no on answers this question.


Sent from my Droid

I dont think they can either. Oh and the att issue it time to tell part 2 of that story. Att went after high data users, who some were not tethering, and the customers called back very angry. Actually even people who were guilty called back angry claiming they were not tethering. Att did not want to drive customers away especially because vzw also had the iphone so they apologized and life went on. Vzw do not have the time and the resources to go after every use so they have to pick a spot. If you are within that 1-5 gig a month total data range then the chances of them picking you are slim. to add to that if you go to sites your droid supports then it will be even harder to prove without a doubt. If you are racking 10-20 gigs and you are using the xbox and downloading torrents then thats like speeding past the police station in a sports car, throwing empty beer cans out the window, during the day, basically you are asking to be caught.

Absolutely. And the issue is racking up data usage is a flag, but without proof it wouldn't hold up as easy in court. (Not saying they wouldn't win or would.)

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[pc747]

I paid for mobile hotspot and used two tehering apps in the same month and only the mobile hotspot showed up on my bill. I used alot of data with barnacle but I only used 500 mb with the one I paid for. And 500mb showed up on my bill, not 3 gb. So I guess they can't tell.

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Nice now we have a confirm that they can't do it. Thanks for your comment.

Sent from my Droid

I plan on doing the same thing but I am hesitant to post the results. Eventually vzw would have acted on this but I think the expedite to do so was because of those who were causing attention my abusing the issue. As much as we want to get mad at vzw for this we need to get as mad at those who drew a lot of attention by tethering like crazy. I had people some on this forum and say they going to keep racking up crazy amount of data until vzw says something. There are obviously enough people doing it to where vzw knew to go to the market and remove those apps. Basically the group is catching it for the few idiots.

 

[gsdreams]

Absolutely. And the issue is racking up data usage is a flag, but without proof it wouldn't hold up as easy in court. (Not saying they wouldn't win or would.)

Sent from my Droid

Have you bothered to read your contract? You can't take Verizon to court, you have to go to Arbitration.

Besides that, all Verizon would have to do is say you are tethering and add it to your bill. Your only recourse would be to switch providers, pay the bill, or go to arbitration.


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[pc747]

And it all comes down to this.

If anyone and I mean anyone has proof that you are stealing from them the will take action. You would take the most effective form of action to stop it.

You wouldn't say well my neighbor is stealing my tools so let me cover my driveway up to try and stop him.

If vzw can prove you tether and ant to stop you the would. The fact is no one has been hauled into court for tethering. You can say all you want well they just overlook it. WRONG. Defend vzw all you want the fact is they are out for money. They are not going to look the other way.

One last time where is the proof that vzw can tell who tethers?

Again no on answers this question.


Sent from my Droid

I dont think they can either. Oh and the att issue it time to tell part 2 of that story. Att went after high data users, who some were not tethering, and the customers called back very angry. Actually even people who were guilty called back angry claiming they were not tethering. Att did not want to drive customers away especially because vzw also had the iphone so they apologized and life went on. Vzw do not have the time and the resources to go after every use so they have to pick a spot. If you are within that 1-5 gig a month total data range then the chances of them picking you are slim. to add to that if you go to sites your droid supports then it will be even harder to prove without a doubt. If you are racking 10-20 gigs and you are using the xbox and downloading torrents then thats like speeding past the police station in a sports car, throwing empty beer cans out the window, during the day, basically you are asking to be caught.

Absolutely. And the issue is racking up data usage is a flag, but without proof it wouldn't hold up as easy in court. (Not saying they wouldn't win or would.)

Sent from my Droid

I dont think vzw will waste the time for that. Why mess with a user who rack up 3 gigs of total data a month even if 5 megs of that was from tethering. All that will do is anger the customer. The people they will go after are the heavy data users and even with them if you take them to court you losing money because of bad publicity and you having to pay the lawyers. Its much cheaper to just slap them with a tethering charge.

 

[yummyDroid]

I love how people think that no matter what Verizon can't tell simply because they don't crack down.

Lets look at what is more important to Verizon, 4G and features to attract new customers and get more people on smartphones or going after tethers.

It isn't a matter of whether they can our can't, I guarantee the technology is out there, its a matter of what is more fiscally realistic.

Going after tethers is a shot in the dark as to whether they will lose the customer or get paid. Implementing 4G and more features is guaranteed revenue.

So, from a business perspective where would you spend you're money.

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pc747's AT&T example discredits this. If the carriers were really worried about losing customers by hitting them with charges and they had the ability to determine who was tethering outside of looking at data usage AT&T wouldn't have taken the risk of accusing all high-data users of tethering.

 

[cynnar]

I love how people think that no matter what Verizon can't tell simply because they don't crack down.

Lets look at what is more important to Verizon, 4G and features to attract new customers and get more people on smartphones or going after tethers.

It isn't a matter of whether they can our can't, I guarantee the technology is out there, its a matter of what is more fiscally realistic.

Going after tethers is a shot in the dark as to whether they will lose the customer or get paid. Implementing 4G and more features is guaranteed revenue.

So, from a business perspective where would you spend you're money.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

I love how people think because vzw says they can people just believe them.

If the technology exist to track tether you can bet it exist to block them tracking.

Well vzw is not just a business it is a major corporation and corporations are all about money. If they could prove you tether hit you with thousands of dollars went to court won the case they would win all the way around.

It still remains everyone says they can. No one has proof, and we are suppose to take vzw word they can?

I don't buy it.

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[cynnar]

I love how people think that no matter what Verizon can't tell simply because they don't crack down.

Lets look at what is more important to Verizon, 4G and features to attract new customers and get more people on smartphones or going after tethers.

It isn't a matter of whether they can our can't, I guarantee the technology is out there, its a matter of what is more fiscally realistic.

Going after tethers is a shot in the dark as to whether they will lose the customer or get paid. Implementing 4G and more features is guaranteed revenue.

So, from a business perspective where would you spend you're money.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

pc747's AT&T example discredits this. If the carriers were really worried about losing customers by hitting them with charges and they had the ability to determine who was tethering outside of looking at data usage AT&T wouldn't have taken the risk of accusing all high-data users of tethering.

Absolutely.

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[gsdreams]

What's funnier is Verizon is following a smart method to stopping it in a financially realistic sense and no one realizes it.

Step 1 least expensive method to try first - remove the app from the market.

Potential step 2 ask manufacturers to include locks in updates for most commonly known apps.

Etc.....

Verizon isn't going to start with a step that could cost them customers. That will be the last step they take. They will do everything else first.

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[yummyDroid]

I love how people think that no matter what Verizon can't tell simply because they don't crack down.

Lets look at what is more important to Verizon, 4G and features to attract new customers and get more people on smartphones or going after tethers.

It isn't a matter of whether they can our can't, I guarantee the technology is out there, its a matter of what is more fiscally realistic.

Going after tethers is a shot in the dark as to whether they will lose the customer or get paid. Implementing 4G and more features is guaranteed revenue.

So, from a business perspective where would you spend you're money.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

pc747's AT&T example discredits this. If the carriers were really worried about losing customers by hitting them with charges and they had the ability to determine who was tethering outside of looking at data usage AT&T wouldn't have taken the risk of accusing all high-data users of tethering.

Also, in 95% of US Markets (ok I made that number up, but it's really high) Verizon knows that they're the best provider and is not worried about losing customers. After getting tacked with a huge charge, most people will probably try to settle the charges with verizon and keep their service rather than paying the charge anyway, paying the ETF and then going through the trouble of paying for a new phone and signing with a new carrier.

 

[gsdreams]

I didn't say they "can". I said the technology is there for them to do so, it does not mean they have implemented it.

As for AT&T vrs Verizon let's compare networks, etc... and tell me who is more likely not only to be able to implement the technology but also afford to do so.


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[pc747]

I love how people think that no matter what Verizon can't tell simply because they don't crack down.

Lets look at what is more important to Verizon, 4G and features to attract new customers and get more people on smartphones or going after tethers.

It isn't a matter of whether they can our can't, I guarantee the technology is out there, its a matter of what is more fiscally realistic.

Going after tethers is a shot in the dark as to whether they will lose the customer or get paid. Implementing 4G and more features is guaranteed revenue.

So, from a business perspective where would you spend you're money.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

pc747's AT&T example discredits this. If the carriers were really worried about losing customers by hitting them with charges and they had the ability to determine who was tethering outside of looking at data usage AT&T wouldn't have taken the risk of accusing all high-data users of tethering.

Do I think vzw may have away to find out, probably. But we are talking about a large base and that is just time consuming. You have check, then verify, then you have to call the customer. Last thing vzw needs is to slap a large bill and play rough with a customer and it turns out is a 70 year old grandma who got her first smartphone for christmas and did not realize having pandora on all day listening to oldies racked up so much data. Now grandma is on cnn/fox/msnbc/abc crying about how this is the worse experience of her life and wished she never had "one of these things". Vzw is looking bad, and here comes at&t-mobile or sprint to the rescue giving her a phone and setting her up real nice. Yup that is the kind of thing that will get someone fired. SO what I am saying is this. Vzw is trying not to waste time on this issue and that is why they blocked the apps. They are probably as not concerned whith the 500 meg tethers as they are the 20 gig. If they are going to go after anyone it will be the high data users but they put in place the ability to throttle back. And I am sure that they will just throttle you back to almost 1x speed and save the headache of going through arbitration and bad press.

 

[yummyDroid]

I didn't say they "can". I said the technology is there for them to do so, it does not mean they have implemented it.

As for AT&T vrs Verizon let's compare networks, etc... and tell me who is more likely not only to be able to implement the technology but also afford to do so.


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The thing is though, as long as tethering apps don't report the data, there's nothing even to implement. i.e. if the data telling them that another device isn't created in the first place, there's nothing for them to "get" by implementing on their side.

 

[gsdreams]

Also, in 95% of US Markets (ok I made that number up, but it's really high) Verizon knows that they're the best provider and is not worried about losing customers. After getting tacked with a huge charge, most people will probably try to settle the charges with verizon and keep their service rather than paying the charge anyway, paying the ETF and then going through the trouble of paying for a new phone and signing with a new carrier.

Ok, I work as Tech Support in a VZW Vendor call center. If you think VZW isn't worried about losing customers you have no idea of business or anything to do with it.

The cell phone market is saturated. How many people do you know without a cell phone?

Verizon's primary source for new customers is getting people to switch from other carriers.

Knowing this do you really thing Verizon isn't going to do everything they can to keep a customer?

There is a reason we have a "Save/Loyalty Matrix". There are reasons there are "Centers of Excellence" that handle customers disconnecting, especially in the northeast (more so than anywhere else).

There are reasons my sister was given a Thunderbolt for "FREE" after she switched to Sprint for 30 days to get her back as a customer.

Should I go on?

 

[HarvesterX™]

Ok, so the question is do they have a way of differentiating whether or not that data is being accessed from the phone or from another device such as a computer.

When you pay VZW for tethering and use the built in tethering app or hotspot app, you are accessing the data through a different "gateway" than if accessing it normally. These "gateways" are stored in read only memory on the phone and onceypi boot your phone, they are loaded into memory. This prevents anybody from just building a version of Android and taking out the tracking code. They know depending on which of those "doors" that you use whether you are tethering (legitimately) or not.

When it comes to differentiating which device is using the data when using a third party program such as PDANet or Wireless/Wired Tether for Root Users, that is what we are debating. None of us apparently know how these apps exactly work so all we can do is speculate all day and never come to a conclusion.

This conversation needs to be presented to the developers of those apps to go any further.