Never said I worked for Moto, stop putting freaking words in my mouth.
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Who is waiting for the OTA ICS??
- Thread starter 3sweeties
- Start date
Never said I worked for Moto, stop putting freaking words in my mouth.
The leaks don't really do much harm. Why? Because it's unsupported. You take a phone that has a leak in to VZW for support and they'll tell you exactly where to go. 
They may not condone it....I'm sure they don't....they locked the bootloader for a reason, after all....but regardless it does benefit them.
They may not condone it....I'm sure they don't....they locked the bootloader for a reason, after all....but regardless it does benefit them.If they were anti public beta test, they would lock it down a little better wouldn't they?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Let's not pretend that they condone it. They most assuredly do not. However, the servers are set up the way they are to allow their testers to get builds as they need them. The fact that they have been hacked by the cheesecake app is in no way condoning leaks. I think it's tolerated to a point because those that use them have no expectation of support and know that they are off the OTA path. This community tends to take care of those using leaks, so, it doesn't hurt moto or vzw all that much unless there's some serious bug in a leak that causes network issues for vzw. That hasn't happened. So far the leaks have been very high quality. And moto has learned about a few bugs that might otherwise not have been caught and fixed as fast as they were. But to say moto supports the leaks is definitely not true at all. They benefit from it, but, don't condone it. That is the point.
Exactly. Not saying they support them...more of a "shhhh, don't tell" approach.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
The leaks don't really do much harm. Why? Because it's unsupported. You take a phone that has a leak in to VZW for support and they'll tell you exactly where to go.
It may benefit them a tiny bit, but to me there are too many variables introduced. Take your own "back to .905" script for example. While it works for the most part, some people have serious issues using it. And Moto never meant for these builds to be installed that way. So how do they even know the issues are legit? And if they really listened to the general public, how the hell did the RAZR ICS build ever get approved? It made it out the door with nonfunctional lapdock support, for example. Surely, someone reported issues with that before it went official. The problem I have with believing that Moto benefits very much at all from these leaks is simply because there are too many idiots out there that jump into these things without doing any research whatsoever, and then have issues because they simply did it wrong. How is Moto supposed to tell a legitimate complaint from a case of "I can't read directions"? I simply believe that if they were really huge into collecting data from the general public, they would have a formal way to do so. At minimum, there would be an app you could download that points your "system update" program to a different server without requiring root access.
I would actually encourage a program like this, perhaps you could sign up on the Motodev site and give them your MEID with the disclaimer that you are voiding your warranty. And there could be a formal way to report issues. I fimly believe that the only real benefits of public use of leaks comes not from these forums; rather from the internal error reporting built into the actual OS. So we are probably indirectly helping them, but I find it hard to believe that they would actually hire someone to scour random forums for posts about issues.
I guess that's what I was trying to get at in the first place, you just worded it better. If they locked the servers down more, they would likely have to totally revamp the way "check for updates" works, since all cheesecake does is point this app to a different server address. I was trying to say that there is no way on earth that Moto would actually look at these trouble reports regarding leaks as an actual "formal beta test" and they do not look at us as "beta testers". However, it is possible that we "accidentally" help them out by uncovering issues. But I think that cell phone manufacturers in general look at testing in a different light than traditional software devs, simply because of the potential for serious issues that have a negative impact on the network; like you mention. I would assume that whenever we "report" an issue, if they find out about it they will try and replicate it. But if they fail to do so, they probably just blow the report off as bogus.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were monitoring the forums. It's not hard to get a list of issues together and give it to your QA to verify. A simple "is this happening in your clean environment?" check would suffice for 99% of them. I'm not saying they spend a lot of time, effort, and energy on it, but, they'd be foolish not to at least do a quick search of "6.7.232" and see what pops up. In the 30 minutes it takes to read through a few threads, you can start to see common issues that people are having.
I FULLY agree with you that the script I wrote is not the intended way to install the leaks. It works, IF you follow my EXACT instructions, but that's because I explicitly don't screw with the ICS system data on a GB build. It's just a "passing through" kind of thing to allow the newest leak to install. Those that boot into a GB build and/or restore system data from a GB backup have run into all kinds of trouble and blamed the leak erroneously. No question that's happened.
But asking QA "does your home button work?" or "is your wifi working properly?" isn't difficult. And would catch most of the actual bugs that are out there and weed out the crap from people doing stupid things. Again I wouldn't say they're constantly monitoring these things, but, glancing at a forum once in a while to see what people are having trouble with would be smart.
The other thing that probably shouldn't be discussed too much is how blessed and lucky we are. The RAZR ICS builds changed um...certain things to disallow FXZ'ing back to GB. It was expected the bionic would do the same thing. It hasn't yet. We'll just leave it at that.
I FULLY agree with you that the script I wrote is not the intended way to install the leaks. It works, IF you follow my EXACT instructions, but that's because I explicitly don't screw with the ICS system data on a GB build. It's just a "passing through" kind of thing to allow the newest leak to install. Those that boot into a GB build and/or restore system data from a GB backup have run into all kinds of trouble and blamed the leak erroneously. No question that's happened.
But asking QA "does your home button work?" or "is your wifi working properly?" isn't difficult. And would catch most of the actual bugs that are out there and weed out the crap from people doing stupid things. Again I wouldn't say they're constantly monitoring these things, but, glancing at a forum once in a while to see what people are having trouble with would be smart.
The other thing that probably shouldn't be discussed too much is how blessed and lucky we are. The RAZR ICS builds changed um...certain things to disallow FXZ'ing back to GB. It was expected the bionic would do the same thing. It hasn't yet. We'll just leave it at that.
Exactly this...
I'd almost say more of a "we've got bigger fish to fry than worrying about this. But if you fry your device, don't come complaining to us. If VZW kicks you off of their network for running unapproved software (which IS against your TOS), don't come complaining to us"
Maybe they should simply go the Apple route, and allow the public to pay to access their dev servers and download beta software. I dunno, these manufacturer/carrier relationships are pretty tenuous when one party tries to do something the other party doesn't approve of; so I guess there is no perfect answer.
timmy10shoes
Member
I believe they most definitely would have people that scour the forums and read through threads and posts. Not necessarily for issues alone but in the long run they are making a product that they want people to buy and enjoy. So who's opinion is better than the actual consumers. As for who they would believe and assume the issue is real is the same process we use. I know Dave is creditable and i won't throw names out there of the ones that aren't, but we all know who they are.
I have to agree. It would seem very sloppy to toss you several different versions without any agreement from you that you're installing them. Maybe a signup like the soak test saying, "I have the skills to install this and am not holding Motorola responsible as this is only a test update." And like it was said before, a soak test is testing the download as well. They want to make sure the average person, who is not on any forum, will be able to install it.
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And this whole locked bootloader thing is one of the bigger reasons I'm leaving the Bionic community soon. The idea that leaks are bad and can potentially take you off the OTA path is just BS IMO. What I mean is that the phone should be unlockable by those willing to take the responsibility of what that means...aka warranty for issues caused by you doing stupid crap with your phone goes out the window. If the hardware breaks that's another story, IMO, but, if you brick your phone after unlocking it, too bad. I personally want a phone I can mess with. I get that VZW doesn't like it. I don't honestly care. As long as I'm not breaking their network, they shouldn't care what I do with, or have on, my phone. Hence, I'm going with a developer device. And quite frankly, that's probably the future model of locked vs unlockable phones. Moto should adopt it and we who want to play with leaks and non-sanctioned software should be ready to pony up or quit whining about it. 
I'm in the ready to pony up category.
I'm in the ready to pony up category.The other thing that probably shouldn't be discussed too much is how blessed and lucky we are. The RAZR ICS builds changed um...certain things to disallow FXZ'ing back to GB. It was expected the bionic would do the same thing. It hasn't yet. We'll just leave it at that.
You know, that's the first thing I pointed out over at the Droidhive shoutbox when we got our first leak - how lucky we were to be Bionic owners and how good things come to those who wait. Who knows, the thing you speak of may be intentional due to some data they did collect from issues with other devices. Our builds would certainly be less problematic for them simply because we can do what we want without getting stuck. Seems it may be a case of "You know, they're gonna do it whether we condone it or not; why make life more difficult?"
I guess even if someone from Moto spent 5 minutes scouring the forums first thing in the morning while having their coffee, they might be able to drum up enough issues to discuss around the water cooler, and at that point it probably wouldn't hurt to check and see if they are reproduceable or not.
I still find it hard to believe they missed the lapdock issue on the RAZR build, though - you'd think they would have one of those in-house to test with, if for no other reason than because they built the damn thing.
Yeah, I'm one of those types of people that wouldn't even consider calling something an issue until I tried everything in the book to keep it from happening, down to a reflash or a full data wipe. For example, I thought my home button was wacky on .232 until I did a cache/data wipe - and fixed the issue. It is for this reason that I am actually against the concept of patch updates for an entirely new OS. A new OS really NEEDS a proper data/cache wipe. The drawback would be the need to redownload apps, but everything else could theoretically be backed up to the cloud prior to the update.