that range is for all android devices in the US, not all need to visit forums, lurk in forums, or register in forums. In fact I would bet that most don't, they see what they need and leave. So when I said 30 - 60, it covered far more than just vzw. wugs information is soley from an anonymous tip from a vzw insider. I'm not limited to just vzw information.
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A Plan For A Brighter Android Future
- Thread starter WugFresh
- Start date
that range is for all android devices in the US, not all need to visit forums, lurk in forums, or register in forums. In fact I would bet that most don't, they see what they need and leave. So when I said 30 - 60, it covered far more than just vzw. wugs information is soley from an anonymous tip from a vzw insider. I'm not limited to just vzw information.
Detonation
Member
This is where you are all wrong the number far surpasses 1%, and one of the main problems of all posting is that you keep assuming that this is a problem unique to Android and Verizon, but this is a multi-carrier (ATT/TMO/Verizon and some smaller carriers) approach. Stop focusing on one carrier and think bigger and broader.
it doesn't matter if it's a multi-carrier thing. The 1% is all of android users, not 1% of android users on verizon. i believe someone told me that you think 30-60% of android users are rooted (if you dont think that feel free to correct me). is that a joke? you're suggesting that there's almost 20M people out there that are rooted? seriously? there's probably 300,000 registered users combined on all the android forums on the internet, and your saying there are like 19 million lurkers, who just know how to root, have no questions, and have never registered an account with an android forum? lol...
that range is for all android devices in the US, not all need to visit forums, lurk in forums, or register in forums. In fact I would bet that most don't, they see what they need and leave. So when I said 30 - 60, it covered far more than just vzw. wugs information is soley from an anonymous tip from a vzw insider. I'm not limited to just vzw information.
I wasn't talking in terms of verizon only. Maybe its a little more than just 1%, but it's no where near 30-60%. If you honestly believe that number, then your view on reality is too distorted to even bother arguing with.
This is where you are all wrong the number far surpasses 1%, and one of the main problems of all posting is that you keep assuming that this is a problem unique to Android and Verizon, but this is a multi-carrier (ATT/TMO/Verizon and some smaller carriers) approach. Stop focusing on one carrier and think bigger and broader.
it doesn't matter if it's a multi-carrier thing. The 1% is all of android users, not 1% of android users on verizon. i believe someone told me that you think 30-60% of android users are rooted (if you dont think that feel free to correct me). is that a joke? you're suggesting that there's almost 20M people out there that are rooted? seriously? there's probably 300,000 registered users combined on all the android forums on the internet, and your saying there are like 19 million lurkers, who just know how to root, have no questions, and have never registered an account with an android forum? lol...
that range is for all android devices in the US, not all need to visit forums, lurk in forums, or register in forums. In fact I would bet that most don't, they see what they need and leave. So when I said 30 - 60, it covered far more than just vzw. wugs information is soley from an anonymous tip from a vzw insider. I'm not limited to just vzw information.
doesn't make sense, sorry. you're saying that the majority of android users in the US not only root, but also that the majority of the rooted users just get it, and will not run into any issue that requires them to register on a forum. or that they are all cooking their own roms, since most forums require you to register to download roms. or that they are so saavy that they can just visit a forum, read what the need to, and just move along without a hitch. i mean...i guess that's possible...pretty sure it's not though.
There is no way that more then half of android users in the US are rooted. Your inside numbers sound like someone is playing a joke on you, or using you as a pawn to make you look silly...sorry. common sense should have led you to that. i'd be surprised if it was over 1%, but I'd be willing to say it may even be as high as 1.5-2% (of total android users in the US). 30-60%?? That's just silly. You're right people don't have to register on forums, but there's no way that millions of people just "get it" with no issues or questions. Devs themselves, who do this stuff daily, run into issues that they need help figuring out. I don't believe that millions are just running along smoothly with no problems.
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it doesn't matter if it's a multi-carrier thing. The 1% is all of android users, not 1% of android users on verizon. i believe someone told me that you think 30-60% of android users are rooted (if you dont think that feel free to correct me). is that a joke? you're suggesting that there's almost 20M people out there that are rooted? seriously? there's probably 300,000 registered users combined on all the android forums on the internet, and your saying there are like 19 million lurkers, who just know how to root, have no questions, and have never registered an account with an android forum? lol...
that range is for all android devices in the US, not all need to visit forums, lurk in forums, or register in forums. In fact I would bet that most don't, they see what they need and leave. So when I said 30 - 60, it covered far more than just vzw. wugs information is soley from an anonymous tip from a vzw insider. I'm not limited to just vzw information.
doesn't make sense, sorry. you're saying that the majority of android users in the US not only root, but also that the majority of the rooted users just get it, and will not run into any issue that requires them to register on a forum. or that they are all cooking their own roms, since most forums require you to register to download roms. or that they are so saavy that they can just visit a forum, read what the need to, and just move along without a hitch. i mean...i guess that's possible...pretty sure it's not though.
There is no way that more then half of android users in the US are rooted. You're inside numbers sound like someone is playing a joke on you, or using you as a pawn to make you look silly...sorry. common sense should have led you to that. i'd be surprised if it was over 1%, but I'd be willing to say it may even be as high as 1.5-2% (of total android users in the US). 30-60%?? That's just silly. You're right people don't have to register on forums, but there's no way that millions of people just "get it" with no issues or questions. Devs themselves, who do this stuff daily, run into issues that they need help figuring out. I don't believe that millions are just running along smoothly with no problems.
Besides your common sense what are you basing your total % on, gut feelings. I'm looking at paperwork, i'm not pulling out of my ass for the sake of argument. I'm not going to argue with you over the # as you have no way of knowing jack crap. Having said that, i've rooted over 100 phones for people who don't visit forums, I know they don't but they wanted a particular theme or application. They are happy with that, and never do anything else to their phone. So yep, there are plenty of ways to use a phone, not all are power users like you.
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that range is for all android devices in the US, not all need to visit forums, lurk in forums, or register in forums. In fact I would bet that most don't, they see what they need and leave. So when I said 30 - 60, it covered far more than just vzw. wugs information is soley from an anonymous tip from a vzw insider. I'm not limited to just vzw information.
doesn't make sense, sorry. you're saying that the majority of android users in the US not only root, but also that the majority of the rooted users just get it, and will not run into any issue that requires them to register on a forum. or that they are all cooking their own roms, since most forums require you to register to download roms. or that they are so saavy that they can just visit a forum, read what the need to, and just move along without a hitch. i mean...i guess that's possible...pretty sure it's not though.
There is no way that more then half of android users in the US are rooted. You're inside numbers sound like someone is playing a joke on you, or using you as a pawn to make you look silly...sorry. common sense should have led you to that. i'd be surprised if it was over 1%, but I'd be willing to say it may even be as high as 1.5-2% (of total android users in the US). 30-60%?? That's just silly. You're right people don't have to register on forums, but there's no way that millions of people just "get it" with no issues or questions. Devs themselves, who do this stuff daily, run into issues that they need help figuring out. I don't believe that millions are just running along smoothly with no problems.
Besides your common sense what are you basing your total % on, gut feelings. I'm looking at paperwork, i'm not pulling out of my ass for the sake of argument. I'm not going to argue with you over the # as you have no way of knowing jack crap. Having said that, i've rooted over 100 phones for people who don't visit forums, I know they don't but they wanted a particular theme or application. They are happy with that, and never do anything else to their phone. So yep, there are plenty of ways to use a phone, not all are power users like you.
LOL @ paperwork. So your paperwork is saying that upto 19 million are rooted? and let's say there are not as many power users, and that there are good samaritans like yourself who are rooting phones for a 100 people. your saying there's about 190,000 good samaritans out there each of which know 100 people that they've rooted for? I'll say it again, whoever is supplying you with this paperwork is making you look like a joke, man. yeah i don't have "paperwork" in front of me, and I may not know "jack crap", but i'm laughing at you, not with you, that's for sure.
Your "anonymous" sources mean nothing. My anonymous sources just told me its 1%, I don't got to prove it to you cuz you don't know jack crap about this. See how dumb it sounds? You telling me I don't know crap just because I don't have paperwork, is just as dumb as you claiming to have paperwork in the first place.
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It's pseudo, not sudo.
Now there's an idea.
On a number of Linux systems, I don't have root acces, but I can use sudo to run applications with root privilege. Why can't Android implement something similar?
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If you run sudo you have root access....i don't understand this post. Sudo requires the root password, and if you have that you can log out of the current user and log in as root
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On Linux, I do not have the root password. I use my personal password with sudo.
With sudo, I cannot run every command root can. It is a limited subset of commands the normal user account is not privileged to run, but sufficient for what I need.
Most corporations do not give employees the sysadmin (Windows) or root (linux) passwords; not even Developers. Only IT sysadmins have them.
Maybe if we focused on what functionality we need rather than ask for full root access...
I certainly do not want to install and beta-test somebody's ROM on my primary communication device.
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Now there's an idea.
On a number of Linux systems, I don't have root acces, but I can use sudo to run applications with root privilege. Why can't Android implement something similar?
Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums
If you run sudo you have root access....i don't understand this post. Sudo requires the root password, and if you have that you can log out of the current user and log in as root
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On Linux, I do not have the root password. I use my personal password with sudo.
With sudo, I cannot run every command root can. It is a limited subset of commands the normal user account is not privileged to run, but sufficient for what I need.
Most corporations do not give employees the sysadmin (Windows) or root (linux) passwords; not even Developers. Only IT sysadmins have them.
Maybe if we focused on what functionality we need rather than ask for full root access...
I certainly do not want to install and beta-test somebody's ROM on my primary communication device.
Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums
Yes I see what you mean. I thought you were saying that you supply the root password when you use sudo, which if you did, would give you root access and access to all root commands. If you're supplying your own password, then your limited by what the sysadmin lets you do with sudo. Sorry for the confusion on my part.
I gave a range, which means it could be: 30%, 31%, 32%, 33%, 34%, 35%, all the way up to 60%. Now you statement of half would be your own assumption, as I never stated anything that high. I gave you a range to run.
ok, even at the lowest that'd be around 9 million rooted, and at the highest (60%, which is more then half...not an assumption, it's math) its 19 million.
even 30% is silly.
Consider this the warning. I am not going to close this thread because people are coming in here to flame and call some one out. Its not fair to the op, unless he himself is involved with the flaming, to have his thread closed because others are going at it. So if you do not have anything helpful or related to this thread do not post it. Any flaming will be removed.
Thanks
Continue posting on topic.
Thanks
Continue posting on topic.
Detonation
Member
Whatever the number of rooted users really is, I stand by my previous statement that this will never happen. This "untapped niche market" has been around long before smartphones and is untapped for a reason. For companies that provide services for millions of customers, the lesser the options the better. Because it means less questions, less support, and less training. Most carrier's customer support is already busy enough with current "simple" issues people have...do you really think they have the time and resources to add rooting/rom-ing issues to their list and still stay profitable? And don't say they should let the dev community support that, because NO company, at least the ones the size of carriers, will release a product/service but tell people that they don't support it. Because when people see that, they will either one, not buy it, or two, ignore it and call and expect support anyways.
Carriers are businesses and businesses want to make money. There is no way that this plan could be profitable for anyone. The small market they'd gain would be nowhere near equal to the amount of money it would cost to plan, implement, and support this.
Carriers are businesses and businesses want to make money. There is no way that this plan could be profitable for anyone. The small market they'd gain would be nowhere near equal to the amount of money it would cost to plan, implement, and support this.
Whatever the number of rooted users really is, I stand by my previous statement that this will never happen. This "untapped niche market" has been around long before smartphones and is untapped for a reason. For companies that provide services for millions of customers, the lesser the options the better. Because it means less questions, less support, and less training. Most carrier's customer support is already busy enough with current "simple" issues people have...do you really think they have the time and resources to add rooting/rom-ing issues to their list and still stay profitable? And don't say they should let the dev community support that, because NO company, at least the ones the size of carriers, will release a product/service but tell people that won't support it.
Carriers are businesses and businesses want to make money. There is no way that this plan could be profitable for anyone. The small market they'd gain would be nowhere near equal to the amount of money it would cost to plan, implement, and support this.
I feel like this is an exact copy of my post lol, simply because you seem to be the only one that understands it.
Exactly my point from the beginning. There is no benefit for the carrier or the consumer by doing this. Why would a person who is not interested in rooting, be convinced to root and pay more for a support plan? Why would a carrier, invest money to implement a sub base of customers like this when their current system of voiding warranties, locking down phones and most probably beginning to charge people who illegally tether works just fine. You're essentially asking the carriers to reinvent the wheel, and they have no reason whatsoever to do it.
What company would just allow their official support to be handled by an online forum of devs who they minimally train? What guarantee do they have that customers will just accept that and not complain to them if someone on an online forum messes them up? It's just a huge headache, a much bigger headache then they have currently.
The plan will never work for these reasons. It doesn't matter if there is one rooter or 1 billion rooters.
@czerdrill thank you for all your helpful input and opinions regarding your gut instinct about market research which has yet to be conducted. I will keep that in the back of mind as I conduct market research. It will help me on my quest for factual data. I am glad you have such a good understanding of the the untapped market niche, in the android mobile technology sector. I am glad that your assumptions that there can be no plan that takes support off the carriers could be implemented, because you for a fact know how customers will react to policys which have yet to been solidified or used in any study. I am glad that overall, in your thorough gut instinct analysis, this plan is a dud. I will keep all that in mind as I move forward.
{{ WugFresh }}
{{ WugFresh }}
@czerdrill thank you for all your helpful input and opinions regarding your gut instinct about market research which has yet to be conducted. I will keep that in the back of mind as I conduct market research. It will help me on my quest for factual data. I am glad you have such a good understanding of the the untapped market niche, in the android mobile technology sector. I am glad that your assumptions that there can be no plan that takes support off the carriers could be implemented, because you for a fact know how customers will react to policys which have yet to been solidified or used in any study. I am glad that overall, in your thorough gut instinct analysis, this plan is a dud. I will keep all that in mind as I move forward.
{{ WugFresh }}
Wait...market history is now gut instinct? How does that work? Since you seem to be moving full steam ahead, while you're researching why don't you take a look at how many companies have asked their customers to pay extra for something they didn't want, and how easy it was to convince those customers to do just that.
Or in your research, make sure you take a look at how the average consumer wants extra features that require them to essentially train themselves on, pay extra to receive support on, and they most probably dont even care to do.
you seem to think that by you saying things, it makes it so. you know, how you say "this will save carriers money" and then everyone starts agreeing with you, or "gut instinct" and that somehow negates common sense. gut instinct has nothing to do with it.
you have still not answered the two simplest questions of all.
why would any carrier want to spend money to appease a group of people who make up such a little of their base, have been stealing service from them for two years and will continue to try to find a way to beat the system? and in your mind android may form a unified front and hold hands and sing kumbaya but that's not happening, man...trust me.
and why would any consumer who has no idea what rooting means, be swayed into a plan where they pay extra for support, void their warranties and can't get replacements and receive minimal half-assed support from their carrier?
before you start researching why don't you look at the root (pun intended) of the problem, instead of getting on this runaway train to nowhere.
1. Because they are not making it to appease a small portion of their base but to market the openness of android utilizing a community oriented market approach. Because it will be profitable if I ever get to the of presenting it. I still do not know this at this time.
2. Because of the marketing strategy I am still working on. You can convince a customer to buy anything.
3. Take this to PM. You clearly have more interest in derailing this thread than helping it. Or proving me wrong. I will prove myself wrong when all is said and done and my bottom line is negative. My goal of this thread is to brainstorm ways to maximize the chances of it being positive. Then I will work on making that plan marketable.
4. Please take this to PM.
{{ WugFresh }}
2. Because of the marketing strategy I am still working on. You can convince a customer to buy anything.
3. Take this to PM. You clearly have more interest in derailing this thread than helping it. Or proving me wrong. I will prove myself wrong when all is said and done and my bottom line is negative. My goal of this thread is to brainstorm ways to maximize the chances of it being positive. Then I will work on making that plan marketable.
4. Please take this to PM.
{{ WugFresh }}
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