A Plan For A Brighter Android Future

[czerdrill]

The openness of android never really existed. This plan needs a little more work mainly the step of convincing the carriers. Presenting a petition will not sway them if it means more money spent for them.

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Did you read the OP?

A: He specifically stated the plan needs more work, especially on the monetary side. This is just the framework of the plan.

B: Why are you fixating on the petition? It is at most a sidenote in the overall plan.

C: He spent a good chunk of the OP describing ways to make the plan financially beneficial to carriers, at a higher cost to us.

Not trying to be a jerk, but don't skim over the OP and then trash the entire plan based on a fixation on one tiny part of it.

Wug has obviously put a lot of time and thought into this, in an attempt to help ALL of us... at least show enough respect for that to give up 3 minutes of your time to read the whole thing.

[/rant]

Again, I apologize if I'm coming across as a jerk, that is not my intention. I can't come up with a nicer way to say what I feel needs to be said.

Wug, again, great work. Now let's all get on the same side and make this thing happen.

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Ill never understand the philosophy of "accept no criticism and do what I say". I'm giving suggestions on how to improve this plan. Why are so many people on this forum so fast to be followers? The plan, by wugs own admission, needs work. You can't just formulate some plan that'll cost a company more money and think they'll say "awesome work!! We will implement this immediately!" Hookbill said what I wanted to but he put it more bluntly. Money is what makes decisions and there is no monetary gain or advantage for any carrier doing this. All it does is force them to train more employees, hire more staff and re write their policies all of which cost them money.

Your not going to convince a company to change their policies because you think its unfair to 1% of its base. I'm sorry but that's the reality. This plan is a good start but, and wug knows this, its not the end all be all. I wish the followers would look at this objectively rather then deflecting their worship to wug now. You act as if wug has some kind of pull with any carrier. He's a customer just like you or me. Money talks in the business world. It always have and I guarantee it always will.

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[czerdrill]

Very well. I had hoped readers would see the logic in the questions I raised as I myself don't have the answers. I raised what could be questions from carriers. I don't think it will work and you have condemned those that think this. It's not all or nothing. The current format wont work. I know it's a work in progress as I hoped the questions would help us re adjust some focus. Even gaining attention at all would be a win for this. Good luck.

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+1. Glad to see some here take it objectively. This forum is unfortuantely full of people who need a hero. Two weeks ago it was nenolod, then p3 and now wug. Wish more people would look at these things from a logical and not an emotional standpoint. That's more a detriment to progress then the carriers and OEMs.

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[WugFresh]

Let me back up this comment because I really am cool with constructive criticism. No need to defend me, unless someone is straight up bashing me as a person, then be my guest.. lol.

I will say this though. Since I have posted this, I have made a lot of anonymous contacts. If anyone else here has connections, please note that I will not disclose anything that you don't want me to, and I will always respect people's privacy.

But I have more pull them you would think and I have become informed of more information than I ever thought was possible. Please keep this thread positive regarding comments towards each other.

Regarding comments towards me and my plan, I don't care. State what is on your mind. I am not going to cry.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[czerdrill]

Let me back up this comment because I really am cool with constructive criticism. No need to defend me, unless someone is straight up bashing me as a person, then be my guest.. lol.

I will say this though. Since I have posted this, I have made a lot of anonymous contacts. If anyone else here has connections, please note that I will not disclose anything that you don't want me to, and I will always respect people's privacy.

But I have more pull them you would think and I have become informed of more information than I ever thought was possible. Please keep this thread positive regarding comments towards each other.

Regarding comments towards me and my plan, I don't care. State what is on your mind. I am not going to cry.

{{ WugFresh }}

Thanks for having a mature attitude towards it. If I ever do attack your character then yes I'm an idiot for that. But I haven't done that and its clear that you see that. Your followers can definitely learn from you.

If you truly believe have some pull with the corporate policies of the carriers then more power to you. I'm just a little skeptical about that and rightly so. I see no incentive at all for the carriers to accept this plan but that doesn't mean that your going to fail. The plan is about 8 hours old lol. Anyway, like I said good luck with this.

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[Dr. Carpenter]

The openness of android never really existed. This plan needs a little more work mainly the step of convincing the carriers. Presenting a petition will not sway them if it means more money spent for them.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Did you read the OP?

A: He specifically stated the plan needs more work, especially on the monetary side. This is just the framework of the plan.

B: Why are you fixating on the petition? It is at most a sidenote in the overall plan.

C: He spent a good chunk of the OP describing ways to make the plan financially beneficial to carriers, at a higher cost to us.

Not trying to be a jerk, but don't skim over the OP and then trash the entire plan based on a fixation on one tiny part of it.

Wug has obviously put a lot of time and thought into this, in an attempt to help ALL of us... at least show enough respect for that to give up 3 minutes of your time to read the whole thing.

[/rant]

Again, I apologize if I'm coming across as a jerk, that is not my intention. I can't come up with a nicer way to say what I feel needs to be said.

Wug, again, great work. Now let's all get on the same side and make this thing happen.

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

Ill never understand the philosophy of "accept no criticism and do what I say". I'm giving suggestions on how to improve this plan. Why are so many people on this forum so fast to be followers? The plan, by wugs own admission, needs work. You can't just formulate some plan that'll cost a company more money and think they'll say "awesome work!! We will implement this immediately!" Hookbill said what I wanted to but he put it more bluntly. Money is what makes decisions and there is no monetary gain or advantage for any carrier doing this. All it does is force them to train more employees, hire more staff and re write their policies all of which cost them money.

Comparing this to riding a bike or obamas presidency is ridiculous. Your not going to convince a company to change their policies because you think its unfair to 1% of its base. I'm sorry but that's the reality. This plan is a good start but, and wug knows this, its not the end all be all. I wish the followers would look at this objectively rather then deflecting their worship to wug now. You act as if wug has some kind of pull with any carrier. He's a customer just like you or me. Money talks in the business world. It always have and I guarantee it always will.

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Interesting... you quote me yet nothing in your post relates to what I actually said. In fact, you restated a couple things I said (see point A). And here I thought we were arguing

Fyi, I'm not in business, and likely never will be, but that doesn't mean I'm an idiot when it comes to the general business concepts you mention (really? I thought businesses liked to lose money). What I'm saying is that the whole idea of the plan IS to make it financially attractive to the carriers (see point C). The plan is not to present them with a way to lose money. The problem is, you're saying on one hand, that the plan is not complete (which I'm not arguing with), yet on the other hand, you're assuming this is the final plan that is going to be presented to the carriers. Again, the plan is not to present them with a way to lose money, so please stop using that as your base for criticism.

And I'm not saying this plan is the end all be all, or comparing it to Obama or riding a bike. I'm starting to wonder how much of any post you read before shooting off a reply.

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[Doulandroid]

I hope this thread will not continue being a verbal game of ping pong. There is a difference between constructive criticism and just being negative. I believe Hookbill said he would not be rooting again anyway, so perhaps we need a seperate topic for people who are done modding /and/or think this conversation is useless. Just a thought

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[WugFresh]

I need to dispute the comments regarding that are no monetary gains. I disagree with that. I will try and back that statement up with hard data. But from my analysis, as I see it, an untapped market that becomes targeted and cornered by one provider will prove to be a profitable endevor. Will it offset the costs within the first fiscal cycle... ehhh.. I don't know. How much money are we talking about for the initial investment, I also do not know.. not at this time.

The more I know, the better this proposal can be. But profits is what's its all about, and that is what I aim to find out. How it can be profitable

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[czerdrill]

Did you read the OP?

A: He specifically stated the plan needs more work, especially on the monetary side. This is just the framework of the plan.

B: Why are you fixating on the petition? It is at most a sidenote in the overall plan.

C: He spent a good chunk of the OP describing ways to make the plan financially beneficial to carriers, at a higher cost to us.

Not trying to be a jerk, but don't skim over the OP and then trash the entire plan based on a fixation on one tiny part of it.

Wug has obviously put a lot of time and thought into this, in an attempt to help ALL of us... at least show enough respect for that to give up 3 minutes of your time to read the whole thing.

[/rant]

Again, I apologize if I'm coming across as a jerk, that is not my intention. I can't come up with a nicer way to say what I feel needs to be said.

Wug, again, great work. Now let's all get on the same side and make this thing happen.

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

Ill never understand the philosophy of "accept no criticism and do what I say". I'm giving suggestions on how to improve this plan. Why are so many people on this forum so fast to be followers? The plan, by wugs own admission, needs work. You can't just formulate some plan that'll cost a company more money and think they'll say "awesome work!! We will implement this immediately!" Hookbill said what I wanted to but he put it more bluntly. Money is what makes decisions and there is no monetary gain or advantage for any carrier doing this. All it does is force them to train more employees, hire more staff and re write their policies all of which cost them money.

Comparing this to riding a bike or obamas presidency is ridiculous. Your not going to convince a company to change their policies because you think its unfair to 1% of its base. I'm sorry but that's the reality. This plan is a good start but, and wug knows this, its not the end all be all. I wish the followers would look at this objectively rather then deflecting their worship to wug now. You act as if wug has some kind of pull with any carrier. He's a customer just like you or me. Money talks in the business world. It always have and I guarantee it always will.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Interesting... you quote me yet nothing in your post relates to what I actually said. In fact, you restated a couple things I said (see point A). And here I thought we were arguing

Fyi, I'm not in business, and likely never will be, but that doesn't mean I'm an idiot when it comes to the general business concepts you mention (really? I thought businesses liked to lose money). What I'm saying is that the whole idea of the plan IS to make it financially attractive to the carriers (see point C). The plan is not to present them with a way to lose money. The problem is, you're saying on one hand, that the plan is not complete (which I'm not arguing with), yet on the other hand, you're assuming this is the final plan that is going to be presented to the carriers. Again, the plan is not to present them with a way to lose money, so please stop using that as your base for criticism.

And I'm not saying this plan is the end all be all, or comparing it to Obama or riding a bike. I'm starting to wonder how much of any post you read before shooting off a reply.

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and what I'm saying is having the carriers create root specific devices/apps and policies will never be financially attractive to them. How could it? I'd love to hear your explanation of how hiring and training staff, rewriting policies and creating new devices to please 1% of their base could possibly be financially attractive?

going to the top is a good idea, but the plan, and yes you agree with me too, needs a lot of work.

you're assuming when wug says "this should save carriers/oems money" that it'll save carriers/oems money (according to your point C). if you logically look at it, you'll see that it actually costs them far more money then saying, "you're not under warranty anymore if you root" or "don't tether illegally or we'll charge you". that requires no overhead whatsoever from them, and they get nothing but profit from that. why would they agree to something that requires them to invest money. it's like "it's not broken, but we're going to spend money to make it broken". they won't do it.

you understand general business concepts, but you dont understand that point? What incentive do they have? the money gained by the people who use this "unlock" app will be nowhere close to what they lose by training people to give support to those who root, the extra staff they have to hire, and also the fact that they'll lose money from the OEMs for allowing bloatware to be removed per some payment by the customer. I'm using logic...and you're quite simply not.

and finally, and i've said it before, google allows this per the android license. again, it's not like carriers/oems are knowingly violating the android license and pulling wool over google's eyes. and that google is sitting there going "gee what do we do now. we're getting screwed by these guys and we dont know how to fix this". the truth is, google is fine with it, because it makes them money and everything that's being done is within the realm of the license. google, unlike what some people think, is not in the dark about this and scrambling to figure out how they can keep android more open. if google were a dev on these forums, they'd be the recipients of the most hero worship lol. people genuinely believe that google is some philanthropic company for the people, by the people, when in reality they're sitting pretty with android and there's no way they're upset about what the oems and carriers are doing.

 

[czerdrill]

I need to dispute the comments regarding that are no monetary gains. I disagree with that. I will try and back that statement up with hard data. But from my analysis, as I see it, an untapped market that becomes targeted and cornered by one provider will prove to be a profitable endevor. Will it offset the costs within the first fiscal cycle... ehhh.. I don't know. How much money are we talking about for the initial investment, I also do not know.. not at this time.

The more I know, the better this proposal can be. But profits is what's its all about, and that is what I aim to find out. How it can be profitable

{{ WugFresh }}

if the plan is introduce root specific devices then there is no way (at least none that I can see) that can be profitable to the company. any gains by using the unlock app, or removing bloatware will be offset by new staff, training, policy changes, and warranty implementations. it'll cost them more money then it does now to implement all that stuff.

 

[lino722]

Money out of our pockets and into VZW's is going to be our foothold. This is the reality of this idea but we are the early adopters we are the reason the incredible was on backorder for 60+ days the rooting community is what has extended the life of the EVO 4G

The idea that really grabbed be is a universal repair resource an online rescue squad would allow the carrier to was their hands of issues that may arise.. if you iPhone breaks you must get apple to fix it

If you break your phone once being a superuser you must speak with the superuser repair squad

I could go on and on

 

[WugFresh]

I need to dispute the comments regarding that are no monetary gains. I disagree with that. I will try and back that statement up with hard data. But from my analysis, as I see it, an untapped market that becomes targeted and cornered by one provider will prove to be a profitable endevor. Will it offset the costs within the first fiscal cycle... ehhh.. I don't know. How much money are we talking about for the initial investment, I also do not know.. not at this time.

The more I know, the better this proposal can be. But profits is what's its all about, and that is what I aim to find out. How it can be profitable

{{ WugFresh }}

if the plan is introduce root specific devices then there is no way (at least none that I can see) that can be profitable to the company. any gains by using the unlock app, or removing bloatware will be offset by new staff, training, policy changes, and warranty implementations. it'll cost them more money then it does now to implement all that stuff.

Regarding bloatware, that is a major problem. But please note that I am not suggesting that they lose their normal plans. This is a seccond option.

Regarding staff. I also disagree. The support exists within the confines of these forums. I propose an alternative method for dealing with support staff, one that I have not fully thought out but have a general understanding of.

This will be primarily web based. And resource oriented. I do have a lot of thinking to do.

The legal work is probably not to be to bad. That could be offset. The rest is the challenge.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[czerdrill]

Regarding bloatware, that is a major problem. But please note that I am not suggesting that they lose their normal plans. This is a seccond option.

Regarding staff. I also disagree. The support exists within the confines of these forums. I propose an alternative method for dealing with support staff, one that I have not fully thought out but have a general understanding of.

This will be primarily web based. And resource oriented. I do have a lot of thinking to do.

{{ WugFresh }}

you're suggesting that they hand over the support portion of their rooted users to online forums? outside of their control? or am i just not understanding you...

 

[WugFresh]

Regarding bloatware, that is a major problem. But please note that I am not suggesting that they lose their normal plans. This is a seccond option.

Regarding staff. I also disagree. The support exists within the confines of these forums. I propose an alternative method for dealing with support staff, one that I have not fully thought out but have a general understanding of.

This will be primarily web based. And resource oriented. I do have a lot of thinking to do.

{{ WugFresh }}

you're suggesting that they hand over the support portion of their rooted users to online forums? outside of their control? or am i just not understanding you...

I am suggesting they build their own forum, recruit staff from these forums and utilize add revenue.

But this has not been thought through.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[czerdrill]

Regarding bloatware, that is a major problem. But please note that I am not suggesting that they lose their normal plans. This is a seccond option.

Regarding staff. I also disagree. The support exists within the confines of these forums. I propose an alternative method for dealing with support staff, one that I have not fully thought out but have a general understanding of.

This will be primarily web based. And resource oriented. I do have a lot of thinking to do.

{{ WugFresh }}

you're suggesting that they hand over the support portion of their rooted users to online forums? outside of their control? or am i just not understanding you...

I am suggesting they build their own forum, recruit staff from these forums and utilize add revenue.

But this has not been thought through.

{{ WugFresh }}

i see. you know they would have to train this staff though, and i doubt anyone would work for free for the love of android lol

 

[lino722]

Don't the Rom developers work for.free for the love of android