Android is losing

[jeffv2]

My love for technology is immense, from physics & how electrons flow through the transistors to how binary code turns into high level computer language. I've learned that being a Fanboy can constrict your ability to learn and find new things.


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[jkhonea]

My love for technology is immense, from physics & how electrons flow through the transistors to how binary code turns into high level computer language. I've learned that being a Fanboy can constrict your ability to learn and find new things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bingo. +10chars

 

[WugFresh]

Wug, you're being VERY disingenuous about Mac users. To classify them as all "computer noobs" and technically inept could not be any farther off base if you tried. In fact, many of THE most technically capable people I know are partial to Mac. By far. You're letting your blind hatred of Apple taint your vision.

But I digress. This is bordering on branching into a pissing contest and I would really like for it to come back on track now. And I will say this, I HIGHLY recommend the comments and implications about the intelligence of Apple users stop now. I am quite serious about that.

And yes, I use Apple, and Windows, and Android.

Ok, sorry that's fair. Like I said... I have friends with macs that are very skilled. But you cannot argue that more Grandmas own macs vs. own pc's, that speaks for itself. And they are specifically targeted towards the less technically inclined user... that is the truth. Straight up.

Making statements regarding weather or not there user base is actually smart or not... is another story. I am not suggesting that all mac users are dumb, but I am suggesting that Apple actively seeks out noobs in a matter that no other computer does, and because of this, I believe that there marketing strategy has been effective and they have relatively more newbs than any other computer company in existence. Thats all. They might have comparably the same amount of smart people... but overall, they undeniably have tapped into the noob market in a fashion that no other company has ever even come close to doing. More power to them... newb = more money. More money for tech support, easily convinced to upgrade and buy software, basically the ideal customer in their book. But for people like me who gets called all the time to fix peoples computers... my frustration with the average mac user just gets worse everyday.

Sorry again... and to be clear.. I am sure that there are some bright people out there who own macs... I never said there weren't. If you are smart and own a mac... then you should be offended by me calling the majority of mac users noobs... because you aren't a noob... so who cares what I say? That's my stance on this. I don't mean to derail this conversation or cause a disagreement over something this trivial, but I can't pretend like there aren't more noobs on the mac platform. That is just FACT and if you don't think so then you are in denial.

Back to my original statement. How many grandma's do you know who own a PC? There is a reason for this... it's because companies specifically target their customer base. I am working towards my MBA right now... I have taken a lot of marketing classes. I don't think that its some weird trend that Mac gets more noob users... it happens because they want it to. It is a specific tactic on their part. They have been actively seeking these customers from the very beginning. Mac is ALL ABOUT catering to noobs, that is their entire business platform in a nutshell... sorry I should add to that. There business platform is more like this:

We aim on bringing innovative technology to the masses by simplifying everything so that anyone can enjoy it.

^^ If you think there is a problem with this statement then you are silly. I think that this is a very good goal. But I don't need to be catered to in this fashion. I don't care for their approach and I don't want to be apart of their whole scheme. I am not saying that it is bad, or makes people less smart. Buy whatever computer you want... I don't care. But if you buy macs... please don't try and pretend like there aren't more noobs in your community than others... PLEASE!!!! Because you know for sure that is completely false. It is, and you know it to be true. People who try and argue the opposite are just being naive to the fact that apple actively seeks out their customer base. Don't take my comments as an offense against your decision to use a mac... just ignore it if its not relevant to you. What difference does it make if I call Mac noobs, mac noobs? They are....? If you called some people PC noobs.... I wouldn't care... or get upset or offended. Whats the big deal..? Seriously?

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[jkhonea]

Wug, you have NO solid numbers on the number of noobs on Mac's compared to PC's. I'll guarantee that. And I'll bet there are MORE noobs on PC due to the lower price entry point. Do they understand what they are doing? Maybe not, but it is easier to convince a noob to pony up for the Windows machine than the Mac's.

And what I'm asking is to ton down the inflammatory comments before they completely derail the thread. Until you present numbers supporting your claims, they are just that, claims.

 

[WugFresh]

Wug, you have NO solid numbers on the number of noobs on Mac's compared to PC's. I'll guarantee that. And I'll bet there are MORE noobs on PC due to the lower price entry point. Do they understand what they are doing? Maybe not, but it is easier to convince a noob to pony up for the Windows machine than the Mac's.

And what I'm asking is to ton down the inflammatory comments before they completely derail the thread. Until you present numbers supporting your claims, they are just that, claims.

Ok. Again... sorry. I will try and keep my opinions regarding this to myself. And you are right, no I don't have a noob graph... probably because the majority of noobs (not saying weather or not they are mac or pc...) wouldn't be able to get to website and fill out the survey unless it was integrated into their OS... lol. Sorry... please don't take that the wrong way.. But honestly... it would be really hard to conduct a noob survey.

There are ALOT of windows newbs, that is for sure... but I guess I just feel like those windows newbs could probably still operate a mac. But that is just my opinion. All based on speculation like you claimed. I have no hard evidence to back up my assertion, I just know it to be true from own experience in the computer technology world. Maybe it is false on a larger scale... who knows.. but I have a feeling this is not true, because I have dealt with a large enough sample group that it is probably indicative of the rest of the market.

I am all for hard evidence though. If you figure out how to conduct a newb survey that could actually work and what kind of questions you would ask, I would be all for making it and distributing it to the masses.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[jkhonea]

See, I have no problem with opinions. What I do have a problem with is hugely condescending opinions based on personal preference and bias. You are showing that here, hands down.

 

[thejas]

Oh and perhaps the Flash issue is the free games. But I know for a fact that Flash is very "dirty" coding and an absolute resource hog. HTML5 is acknowledged as much cleaner, more efficient and just as capable. At least according to my coding friends. So I don't completely buy the Flash being removed as completely a money issue.

While I agree with the HTML 5 being cleaner and more efficient, I think my issue is the market saturation just isn't there. In time it might be, and certainly android will support that but right now, it's not so popular. Very nice comments btw guys. I also think apple is too constrained but I will always tip my hat to them. People forget that if it wasn't for apple, we'd still be on d-pad/select button phones with half the features. They started a revolution that has blown up and allowed android to be here. To be without the Iphone is to be without android. So although I don't agree with their business model, it is because of this model, I can show how I think with my wallet and android os.

 

[WugFresh]

Wug, you're being VERY disingenuous about Mac users. To classify them as all "computer noobs" and technically inept could not be any farther off base if you tried. In fact, many of THE most technically capable people I know are partial to Mac. By far. You're letting your blind hatred of Apple taint your vision.

But I digress. This is bordering on branching into a pissing contest and I would really like for it to come back on track now. And I will say this, I HIGHLY recommend the comments and implications about the intelligence of Apple users stop now. I am quite serious about that.

And yes, I use Apple, and Windows, and Android.

Being bias to a company is pointless, by being bias your just doing exactly what they want. Sometimes people are so loyal to a company they're blind to something even better.


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Pretty much, as I said earlier, I true technophile appreciates all technology. Regardless of branding.

I wish I could. From what I learned in this thread I want an iPhone. It's a shame I will never be able to convince myself to do that again... at least not at this point.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[WugFresh]

Oh and perhaps the Flash issue is the free games. But I know for a fact that Flash is very "dirty" coding and an absolute resource hog. HTML5 is acknowledged as much cleaner, more efficient and just as capable. At least according to my coding friends. So I don't completely buy the Flash being removed as completely a money issue.

While I agree with the HTML 5 being cleaner and more efficient, I think my issue is the market saturation just isn't there. In time it might be, and certainly android will support that but right now, it's not so popular. Very nice comments btw guys. I also think apple is too constrained but I will always tip my hat to them. People forget that if it wasn't for apple, we'd still be on d-pad/select button phones with half the features. They started a revolution that has blown up and allowed android to be here. To be without the Iphone is to be without android. So although I don't agree with their business model, it is because of this model, I can show how I think with my wallet and android os.

Oh.. For Sure! When the iPhone dropped... I was like DAMN!!! And then grabbed one. But the second I had the choice of a competitor...even if it wasn't as good, I was super happy to get off the apple train. That's just me though. I am very happy they dropped the iPhone.. it truly was revolutionary and has forever changed the mobile technology sector... although I would argue that it would have happened one way or another... maybe not as clean and polished as apple did... but a touch screen phone wasn't that farfetched at the time with the available technology. But again... I wont lie. When I held my brand new iPhone for the first time I felt like I was using alien technology... it was so crazy to me. So hats to them for dropping that on the tech community. I am just happy that there are competitors now.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[jkhonea]

Oh and perhaps the Flash issue is the free games. But I know for a fact that Flash is very "dirty" coding and an absolute resource hog. HTML5 is acknowledged as much cleaner, more efficient and just as capable. At least according to my coding friends. So I don't completely buy the Flash being removed as completely a money issue.

While I agree with the HTML 5 being cleaner and more efficient, I think my issue is the market saturation just isn't there. In time it might be, and certainly android will support that but right now, it's not so popular. Very nice comments btw guys. I also think apple is too constrained but I will always tip my hat to them. People forget that if it wasn't for apple, we'd still be on d-pad/select button phones with half the features. They started a revolution that has blown up and allowed android to be here. To be without the Iphone is to be without android. So although I don't agree with their business model, it is because of this model, I can show how I think with my wallet and android os.

You're absolutely right. The market saturation will take time, but here's the caveat. If it's going to happen, I think it will have to happen pretty quickly. I think that is a large part of the strategy between having two separate articles happen in major news points in one week. One was Apple and Adobe semi coming to terms on streaming video. The other was on Microsoft Silverlight bowing to HTML 5. I'm not completely sure who is "behind" HTML 5. I must admit, I am amiss in not looking at that already. But I have a feeling there is someone or something significant behind it. And I don't think it's Apple, though I do think they are feeding it's growth. It's going to be interesting to see where the chips land on this one.

What I will say is it seems to me that HTML 5 does run smoother on mobile devices. While Android runs Flash, it still feels far from smooth. But I think we will see great advances on this very quickly as many developers are rightfully acknowledging that mobile media is at the heart of future development.

 

[WugFresh]

It will be HTML5 for sure. Its undoubtedly better, furthermore I think google is behind a lot of its development. They just marketed flash because it was an easy way to gain a competitive advantage over apple.. just compromise security and let their be flash... tada! HTML5 is a beast, it will destroy flash... It's just hard to break that kind of news to a company like Adobe that spent A LOT of money buying out Macromedia and furthering flashes development and pervasiveness on the web. It still is going to take a little while for the transition to occur because so many sites are still in flash... but it will happen.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[jkhonea]

It will be HTML5 for sure. Its undoubtedly better, furthermore I think google is behind a lot of its development. They just marketed flash because it was an easy way to gain a competitive advantage over apple.. just comprimise security and let their be flash... tada! HTML5 is a beast, it will destroy flash... It's just hard to break that kind of new to a company like Adobe that spent ALOT of money buying out Macromedia and furthering flashes development and pervasiveness on the web. It still is going to take a little while for the transition to occur because so many sites are still in flash... but it will happen.

{{ WugFresh }}

Yup, I honestly think you're right. When there are so many coders already gaining a strong affinity for HTML 5, that's a tremendous foot in the door. The description of Flash to HTML 5 from the friend of mine that codes was actually fascinating. Her description of the "dirty coding" used for Flash, i.e. basically working around all the translations versus the pure HTML coding was pretty cool. I wish I could remember her complete description comparing the two.

 

[czerdrill]

Wug, you're being VERY disingenuous about Mac users. To classify them as all "computer noobs" and technically inept could not be any farther off base if you tried. In fact, many of THE most technically capable people I know are partial to Mac. By far. You're letting your blind hatred of Apple taint your vision.

But I digress. This is bordering on branching into a pissing contest and I would really like for it to come back on track now. And I will say this, I HIGHLY recommend the comments and implications about the intelligence of Apple users stop now. I am quite serious about that.

And yes, I use Apple, and Windows, and Android.

Ok, sorry that's fair. Like I said... I have friends with macs that are very skilled. But you cannot argue that more Grandmas own macs vs. own pc's, that speaks for itself. And they are specifically targeted towards the less technically inclined user... that is the truth. Straight up.

Making statements regarding weather or not there user base is actually smart or not... is another story. I am not suggesting that all mac users are dumb, but I am suggesting that Apple actively seeks out noobs in a matter that no other computer does, and because of this, I believe that there marketing strategy has been effective and they have relatively more newbs than any other computer company in existence. Thats all. They might have comparably the same amount of smart people... but overall, they undeniably have tapped into the noob market in a fashion that no other company has ever even come close to doing. More power to them... newb = more money. More money for tech support, easily convinced to upgrade and buy software, basically the ideal customer in their book. But for people like me who gets called all the time to fix peoples computers... my frustration with the average mac user just gets worse everyday.

Sorry again... and to be clear.. I am sure that there are some bright people out there who own macs... I never said there weren't. If you are smart and own a mac... then you should be offended by me calling the majority of mac users noobs... because you aren't a noob... so who cares what I say? That's my stance on this. I don't mean to derail this conversation or cause a disagreement over something this trivial, but I can't pretend like there aren't more noobs on the mac platform. That is just FACT and if you don't think so then you are in denial.

Back to my original statement. How many grandma's do you know who own a PC? There is a reason for this... it's because companies specifically target their customer base. I am working towards my MBA right now... I have taken a lot of marketing classes. I don't think that its some weird trend that Mac gets more noob users... it happens because they want it to. It is a specific tactic on their part. They have been actively seeking these customers from the very beginning. Mac is ALL ABOUT catering to noobs, that is their entire business platform in a nutshell... sorry I should add to that. There business platform is more like this:

We aim on bringing innovative technology to the masses by simplifying everything so that anyone can enjoy it.

^^ If you think there is a problem with this statement then you are silly. I think that this is a very good goal. But I don't need to be catered to in this fashion. I don't care for their approach and I don't want to be apart of their whole scheme. I am not saying that it is bad, or makes people less smart. Buy whatever computer you want... I don't care. But if you buy macs... please don't try and pretend like there aren't more noobs in your community than others... PLEASE!!!! Because you know for sure that is completely false. It is, and you know it to be true. People who try and argue the opposite are just being naive to the fact that apple actively seeks out their customer base. Don't take my comments as an offense against your decision to use a mac... just ignore it if its not relevant to you. What difference does it make if I call Mac noobs, mac noobs? They are....? If you called some people PC noobs.... I wouldn't care... or get upset or offended. Whats the big deal..? Seriously?

{{ WugFresh }}

Wug ill just answer your posts here. When I said android fanboys are arrogant and obnoxious I was speaking in general. However after reading a couple of your posts, yes, you are included in that (and I would think that you know by now I have no issue speaking to people directly if I have an issue with them). You're passing off pure opinion and conjecture as fact and yes that's obnoxious and arrogant. Ill say it again, you and any other android user are not smarter than the average iphone user. To put it bluntly, get over yourself.

More grandmas own pcs? More noobs own macs? Where are you getting these ridiculous and baseless "facts"? Its honestly hilarious (and a little sad) that you think there are more noobs or morons in the mac community then android. Again, no base, pure opinion and pure foolish.

Great you are working toward an mba. Guess what? I have a bachelors in biology and a masters in infosec. And the last thing I would say is I'm smarter then an entire group of people because of my phone choice. Or the choice that I made means I'm in the smarter group. Yes, what your saying is arrogant, extremely obnoxious and honestly its making you look ignorant.

You and I have had some good debates and I've told you countless times I think your a smart mature guy. You're definitely smart, the mature part I'm beginning to rethink after your rants. Trust me, there are tons of ppl in the apple community who are far smarter then you or I. And vice versa. Don't say things that make no sense and just make you look like a silly fanboy.

I don't know where or why the foolish rumor started that android users all do this extensive research and are more in the know then any smartphone user. In a word that belief is dumb.

Oh and in case you think I was throwing subliminals here it is again: your statements are extremely obnoxious and arrogant and you look like the uneducated fanboys that you seem to think apple users are.

I'm not going to argue with you about this, bc there is no point. I've had plenty of arguments with fanboys on this forum and have no interest in starting a pissing contest with you. Just as a reminder though, wug, you are not any smarter then the avg apple user, as much as you want to pat yourself on the back and think you are. JMO.

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[WugFresh]

It will be HTML5 for sure. Its undoubtedly better, furthermore I think google is behind a lot of its development. They just marketed flash because it was an easy way to gain a competitive advantage over apple.. just comprimise security and let their be flash... tada! HTML5 is a beast, it will destroy flash... It's just hard to break that kind of new to a company like Adobe that spent ALOT of money buying out Macromedia and furthering flashes development and pervasiveness on the web. It still is going to take a little while for the transition to occur because so many sites are still in flash... but it will happen.

{{ WugFresh }}

Yup, I honestly think you're right. When there are so many coders already gaining a strong affinity for HTML 5, that's a tremendous foot in the door. The description of Flash to HTML 5 from the friend of mine that codes was actually fascinating. Her description of the "dirty coding" used for Flash, i.e. basically working around all the translations versus the pure HTML coding was pretty cool. I wish I could remember her complete description comparing the two.

With flash, its like building a website and then crowbaring in that extra technology... with HTML5, it's just like building a website... that's it. All of the animated components and everything are ridiculously easy to code... the syntax is literally like this:

First you set up a drawable canvas... then you define your circle.

function circle(x,y,r) {   
    ctx.beginPath();   
    ctx.arc(x, y, r, 0, Math.PI*2, true);
    ctx.fill();
}

Then you use if statements or whatever to define the x & y variables and the circle will move around depending on whatever time interval you chose for the refresh rate.

This sort of setup is ridiculously easier than flash. I just wonder how much longer it will take until it all switches... I hope not too long.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[BackSeatSuicide]

I have had my android phone for almost a year now & I've been pretty pleased with it, but when the iphone 5 comes out I'm going to buy that instead of updating to another android phone.

Android simply doesn't have the major perks that iOS has..
I'm no apple fan at all, I think they're an evil company that sells for a 400% profit. But for a on device hack-ability iphone takes the cake, having DPKG & a beautiful frontend for apt (cydia) I just can't find myself with this android phone any longer.

It really upsets me to think this because android has a lot of potental, but not for me without dpkg or a 3rd party package management system.

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I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. I respect you opinion. But android is the most impressive mobile software I've ever seen. I've used all the different iPhones, and I still currently own/use the newest 4th Gen iPod Touch. And I like it. And even us android users owe a big thanks to apple for paving the way for the smartphone as we know and love it today. But android is all about its users and being progressive and ground breaking. every release keeps getting better. Android is been out a few Years less but is starting to outsell the iphone. And on that same note, android is still new and they are still working the bugs out. I love my android phone with a passion. My Droid X is my favorite device I own, besides my Xbox30/PS3. It embodies everything I've ever wanted in a phone. And it only keeps getting better. And the iphone just keeps staying the same, except some hardware changes. I will never ever turn my back on android. I'm android for life lol can't wait to see where android takes us in the next 3yrs!

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