P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[CoFoltman84]

What about this FCC ruling? Seems the FCC is on the users side.

iPhone jailbreaking (and all cell phone unlocking) made legal - Yahoo! News

rooting is legal, but using paid services (like tethering) for free, is not.

 

[czerdrill]

My bad. It just makes me irate when I actually realize what these corporations are capable of.

And I would say revolt via Class Action, but Verizon is already safeguarding themselves from this by doing away with the unlimited data.

Ugh. This sucks more and more. Just when cell phone service was starting to look good, it has to start receding right back into the dark ages.

Let me try to understand this. Are you saying that people like you should file a class action suit against Verizon because they are trying to stop you from doing something that violates the contract that you signed? :rofl3:

You want to understand. Here. I'll explain.

Basically.... if I told you that you get UNLIMITED cigarettes from me for 30 bucks a month. As many as you wanted/needed. And I made you sign a 13 page contract that would make you pay me 30 bucks a month for 2 years for UNLIMITED Ciggies, but somewhere in this 13 page contract, I put in very fine print that I would cap you off after your 5th Carton.... wouldn't that be basically falsely advertising to you and swindling you into something that isn't what you believed to be buying at all in the first place?

I mean, this is just how I feel. I don't care about tethering. Like I said, we're kinda jerks for going around them and using it for free. But the Unlimited thing is what bugs me. Why not say "5GB/month at 3G speeds, and after 5GB, the speed gets reduced down to half the speed of 3G."? It just seems more logical instead of lying and swindling people.

Where do you get the 5gb number. Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to understand where the assumptiom of "5 and throttled" is coming from

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[johnomaz]

What about this FCC ruling? Seems the FCC is on the users side.

iPhone jailbreaking (and all cell phone unlocking) made legal - Yahoo! News

Exactly, they can get pissed all they want. It is no longer a grey area. It is not illegal, period. I do not root my phone so I can tether. I use tethering maybe once a month for maybe 20 or so megs. And that is only for a convenience of doing something on a laptop or the wifi only iPad my work gave me. Thats it. If they think they can 'crack down' on rooters because they think we all tether, they are sadly mistaken.

Also, exactly what data are they collecting? That seems a bit on the illegal side of things. Are they recording my internet traffic that I go to on my DX? I am sure they think I tether all day long. I use the about:debug trick to change my UIString to desktop so I get full webpages. I hate mobile sites. I'd rather wait 10 seconds for the page to fully load then the retarded mobile site. I say bring it :censored:, lets see what happens.

 

[credemann]

Ok I gotcha! Thanks for the clarification.

 

[reuuin88]

I can understand the companies stand points on this subject. If you are going after tetherers fine. But do not take away our rights to root and theme and customize for better use. We all understand the risks of what we do, we understand our phones are void of warranties. But do not shut off my 3g/4g because I want to get rid of a few of your apps I do not like or customize my layout in a unique way. Verizon would be even smarter to release a custom open phone specifically for people like us, I believe they could market that vs the closed un-unique ios platform...

 

[OneTenderRebel]

There is a long standing rumor (completely false I might add) that unlimited data really means 5gbs. Again completely false.

sent from the great depths of my phones internet (thanks Al Gore)

 

[jkhonea]

What about this FCC ruling? Seems the FCC is on the users side.

iPhone jailbreaking (and all cell phone unlocking) made legal - Yahoo! News

Exactly, they can get pissed all they want. It is no longer a grey area. It is not illegal, period. I do not root my phone so I can tether. I use tethering maybe once a month for maybe 20 or so megs. And that is only for a convenience of doing something on a laptop or the wifi only iPad my work gave me. Thats it. If they think they can 'crack down' on rooters because they think we all tether, they are sadly mistaken.

Also, exactly what data are they collecting? That seems a bit on the illegal side of things. Are they recording my internet traffic that I go to on my DX? I am sure they think I tether all day long. I use the about:debug trick to change my UIString to desktop so I get full webpages. I hate mobile sites. I'd rather wait 10 seconds for the page to fully load then the retarded mobile site. I say bring it :censored:, lets see what happens.

If you download 1kb of data by tethering through Wireless Tether, you are in violation of the ToS. Period. No ifs, ands, buts about it. Hey, I'm with you. I only tether about every two to three months to download a file from my email but I do it knowingly at my own risk.

In my opinion, a fair way to cover tethering would be to allow a certain amount of tethering with your unlimited plan and then charge when you go past your allotment. That would actually be fair and encourage more people to legally tether.

 

[jkhonea]

I can understand the companies stand points on this subject. If you are going after tetherers fine. But do not take away our rights to root and theme and customize for better use. We all understand the risks of what we do, we understand our phones are void of warranties. But do not shut off my 3g/4g because I want to get rid of a few of your apps I do not like or customize my layout in a unique way. Verizon would be even smarter to release a custom open phone specifically for people like us, I believe they could market that vs the closed un-unique ios platform...

We're covering this on another thread, but for clarification, all of this is FAR from being just about wireless tethering. People are getting sidetracked. That is not the main or only reason for this.

 

[freezyfreaky]

My bad. It just makes me irate when I actually realize what these corporations are capable of.

And I would say revolt via Class Action, but Verizon is already safeguarding themselves from this by doing away with the unlimited data.

Ugh. This sucks more and more. Just when cell phone service was starting to look good, it has to start receding right back into the dark ages.

Let me try to understand this. Are you saying that people like you should file a class action suit against Verizon because they are trying to stop you from doing something that violates the contract that you signed? :rofl3:

You want to understand. Here. I'll explain.

Basically.... if I told you that you get UNLIMITED cigarettes from me for 30 bucks a month. As many as you wanted/needed. And I made you sign a 13 page contract that would make you pay me 30 bucks a month for 2 years for UNLIMITED Ciggies, but somewhere in this 13 page contract, I put in very fine print that I would cap you off after your 5th Carton.... wouldn't that be basically falsely advertising to you and swindling you into something that isn't what you believed to be buying at all in the first place?

I mean, this is just how I feel. I don't care about tethering. Like I said, we're kinda jerks for going around them and using it for free. But the Unlimited thing is what bugs me. Why not say "5GB/month at 3G speeds, and after 5GB, the speed gets reduced down to half the speed of 3G."? It just seems more logical instead of lying and swindling people.

What if I was giving some of those cigarettes to my friend? That's why it's put in the contract. Don't take this the wrong way but that's why businesses have lawyers go through their contracts before its signed.

 

[RW-1]

I'ts all about money.

Money you would spend for tethering, but more importantly, money you would have to spend on a new handset once they decide it is EOL and no longer get updates to it.

It's really too bad, the dev community is so much better andd faster than the actual manufacturers / carriers themselves.

so afraid fo 1% of the total community it is laughable.

 

[czerdrill]

There is a long standing rumor (completely false I might add) that unlimited data really means 5gbs. Again completely false.

sent from the great depths of my phones internet (thanks Al Gore)

Oh ok yeah so there is no proof that five is where they start throttling. Could be ten or fifteen. Or one hundred haha. I think people are just speaking without knowing the facts

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[Its TwiX]

I am paying for data on that device. If I use the data on that device, or it forwards some of that data to my other device, so long as I am not using more than my limit of data, it should not matter.

If I have an unlimited calling plan, and I let my girlfriend use my phone whenever she wants, is that stealing?

If in the contract that YOU signed it says "you cannot let anyone else use your minutes" then YES that is stealing. I know that the contract clearly states that tethering is banned...

Also, its not about how much total bandwidth you use, its about when you are using it and the rate of usage. If you use 5gbs in 1 hour it puts far more strain on the network than using 5gbs over a month. The total number you use is almost irrelevant. It is much easier to use data quickly on a CPU tethering than on the phone itself... Wouldn't you least agree with that?

It is only stealing in the sense that the powers that be decided to make up their own definition of "stealing" so that they could try to profit from it.

Whoever has the power, gets to make up the terms and definitions of things, in a way that will benefit them. Like calling a plan that has a 5GB cap and no tethering, to be "unlimited"... They have their own definition of the term, which goes contrary to the English dictionary and common sense. But because they make the rules, that makes them right?

Look at it like taxes... The government says that confiscating 20-50% of what you earn is legal, and not only legal, but moral and "right"...

Yet if you walked up to someone and put a gun to them and told them to hand over their wallet, even if you did "good" things with the money, like gave a homeless man food, clothing and shelter for the night, would you not still be charged with robbery? You would. So when you take something that doesn't belong to you and give it to someone else, it's called theft. But because the government has the power, when they do the exact same thing, but on a larger scale, they get to rewrite the laws and definitions so that when they take something that belongs to someone else, it isn't stealing.

I am not claiming that Verizon doesn't consider tethering within the data cap of your "unlimited" plan to be stealing. They do, primarily because they denied a basic service under your data plan in order to create a second service that they could charge you a second time for.

It's their definition, but I do not believe that the casual user's occasional use of tethering, so long as they stay under their plan's data cap, is stealing in the conventional sense.

Tethering when your contract clearly states you must pay for it, is theft of service, a criminal charge.

I think you guys put way too much trust in p3droid. His job is to get people to look at the website. The fact that you can literally go into a Verizon store and talk to employees about ROMs and kernels they are running kind of proves my point. Do you honestly think Verizon employees would root their phone if the company they work for is tracking them? He's just trying to cover his ass for releasing a ROM that uses an unreleased firmware which Verizon CAN see. If I had unreleased firmware and sold it to people I would do the same.

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

 

[Preach2k]

So what can you do if they cut your service because you rooted your phone or do Illegal Tethering?

 

[jkhonea]

I'ts all about money.

Money you would spend for tethering, but more importantly, money you would have to spend on a new handset once they decide it is EOL and no longer get updates to it.

It's really too bad, the dev community is so much better andd faster than the actual manufacturers / carriers themselves.

so afraid fo 1% of the total community it is laughable.

Of course its about money. I sure don't work for the fun of it, unfortunately. They have to make money as well. As do they have to provide solid results to investors and board of directors. That is how it is, unfortunately.

 

[jkhonea]

So what can you do if they cut your service because you rooted your phone or do Illegal Tethering?

That's still hard to say and don't think it has been fleshed out. Could be anything from a "fine" to be able to stay with their service to being kicked off their network. Very hard to say.