P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[OneTenderRebel]

if no one roots the devices anymore what will we talk about on here??? :O

the good ole days when we rooted our devices and walked 5 miles uphill, bothways, barefoot, in the snow to school.

 

[Martin030908]

if no one roots the devices anymore what will we talk about on here??? :O

the good ole days when we rooted our devices and walked 5 miles uphill, bothways, barefoot, in the snow to school.

.... those were the days. lol

 

[tcayton49]

The thing is, Verizon CLEARLY states that if you want to tether, you have to pay for it. period. there is no discussion. its THEIR network, you signed THEIR terms of service when you got the phone. there's no moral or intellectual issue here. you either comply or you're in violation. One or the other. regardless of how you feel. there are no comparable analogies with food, sunlight, pets, deodorant, office supplies, clothing, plasma, gravity or bodily fluids. If you "feel" verizon is wrong and you don't want to comply,your options are to leave them or violate their terms of service and face the consequences. End of story.
Thank you. Now I'm gonna go to the gas station, buy 10 gallons of gas, and only give them $20 because that's how much gas cost when I bought my car, and if I follow the logic here, that's all I should have to pay.

 

[cush2push]

few reasons why i did the root

i dont like how a phone manf or a carrier tells me what i should do/have on my phone if they shipped a phone with a rom only and no crapware on it i prolly never would root the only reason i bought a tb was because it was rooted and i could remove all that crapware
( the one thing apple gets right ) second reason is i never settle i always want better faster stronger i want what they wouldnt/couldnt give me so i rooted and made it myself

 

[SquireSCA]

Because when you take food home, you are obviously taking more than you could eat at that one sitting.

But being that we have caps on our "unlimited" data, we are not getting more than we paid for. We are simply getting what we paid for via a different device. I am taking my food and eating it with different utensils rather than eating everything with a fork.

That's the difference.

Now if I eat more than my share of data, charge me, just as many buffets will let you take some food home, but they weigh it and charge you extra, because you are going over the limit.

You taking the internet service off your phone and giving it to another device is akin to me taking the plate from the buffet and eating it at McDonald's. I mean, why should they care, its still the same amount of food........

The reason they care has already been explained at length. Because YOU signed a contract.


Think about it this way, you've got a gasoline pump with unlimited gasoline. (Bandwidth)
But you can only pump thru a straw. (Your phone)
The very reason the gas (bandwidth) is free, is because there is such a small amount being drawn out at once.
Now, switch the straw (phone) with a garden hose (computer).. they are both drawing from the same "unlimited" gas pump, but at vastly different rates...

There is only so much content you would want to use your phone to access, that's what the carriers are banking on. Once you start using your computer the whole internet opens up.

Jeebus, American Morals have gone up in smoke.

Your new analogy is exactly why they should be clamping down on Bandwidth, not which "hose" is being used. I, for instance, would still use that straw to send work emails and be available on Office Communicator during my train commute. Who they should be targeting are those users who take that garden hose and use it at home to stream Netflix or spread it around to friends in the area.

100% agreed.

 

[Oxymoron]

Everyone needs to get out of the mindset that this whole thing is about tethering. It's not. Not by a longshot.

I absolutely agree. I have been distracted by this one point. I said in my second post in this thread that I agree that carriers have legitimate concerns. I do. I keep stumbling over this one point, however.

I really don't think I have done anything wrong here. Everytime I go into a VZW store to check out new devices I chat with employees there. About root, custom ROMs, kernels, themes, launchers, emulators (own every NES cartridge I have a ROM for on my phone btw), etc.. Some reps are geeked out like myself, and others have no clue what I'm talking about. But I have NEVER been told I couldn't do that.

I honestly do not want to steal. I think it's wrong. When I renew and they say I cannot tether without paying a fee... I won't tether.

I have an earpiece speaker that's blown out on my D1. Now max volume through the earpiece is 50%. Could I have sbf'd and taken it back for warranty service? Of course. But I haven't, and I won't. I voided my warranty when I rooted. I know this. The blown speaker was not caused by software, it was a hardware failure. I still won't take it back, because that's the risk I took when rooting. I just put calls on speaker, or plug in my earbuds. Not a big deal. My loss for rooting, and I accept it.

I have a problem with people going beyond this, and self-creating bricks then having manufacturers/carriers honor their warranty deceitfully.

I also agree that root may not be as necessary with future devices. Things are being optimized better and better with each generation of handset. That's wonderful. I just wish root weren't required for the seemingly simplest things, such as screen caps.

At the end of the day, I guess it doesn't really matter. Life goes on regardless.

I hope I haven't offended anyone. I am just struggling to see the logic, and don't like to be lumped into the same group as criminals. I promise you, if I go into VZW and they tell me I cannot tether, I won't. I've always been told by them that if I didn't abuse it, there would be no problems. I haven't, and there haven't been.

Now I just want to hold out for the Targa, but I want to play with the Bionic a little to be sure. I am 100% for tiered data plans.

Anyway, lots of valid points here, and many thyings to consider

 

[Backnblack]

if no one roots the devices anymore what will we talk about on here??? :O

the good ole days when we rooted our devices and walked 5 miles uphill, bothways, barefoot, in the snow to school.

.... those were the days. lol

But now, everyone is...

 

[SquireSCA]

You're so far off in your analogies. You pay for unlimited data for ONE device. You can make millions of those analogies and none of them will hold any weight. Show me where it says you can use your data for anything you want and then your analogies will make perfect sense but until then......

sent from the great depths of my phones internet (thanks Al Gore)

I am paying for data on that device. If I use the data on that device, or it forwards some of that data to my other device, so long as I am not using more than my limit of data, it should not matter.

If I have an unlimited calling plan, and I let my girlfriend use my phone whenever she wants, is that stealing?

If in the contract that YOU signed it says "you cannot let anyone else use your minutes" then YES that is stealing. I know that the contract clearly states that tethering is banned...

Also, its not about how much total bandwidth you use, its about when you are using it and the rate of usage. If you use 5gbs in 1 hour it puts far more strain on the network than using 5gbs over a month. The total number you use is almost irrelevant. It is much easier to use data quickly on a CPU tethering than on the phone itself... Wouldn't you least agree with that?

It is only stealing in the sense that the powers that be decided to make up their own definition of "stealing" so that they could try to profit from it.

Whoever has the power, gets to make up the terms and definitions of things, in a way that will benefit them. Like calling a plan that has a 5GB cap and no tethering, to be "unlimited"... They have their own definition of the term, which goes contrary to the English dictionary and common sense. But because they make the rules, that makes them right?

Look at it like taxes... The government says that confiscating 20-50% of what you earn is legal, and not only legal, but moral and "right"...

Yet if you walked up to someone and put a gun to them and told them to hand over their wallet, even if you did "good" things with the money, like gave a homeless man food, clothing and shelter for the night, would you not still be charged with robbery? You would. So when you take something that doesn't belong to you and give it to someone else, it's called theft. But because the government has the power, when they do the exact same thing, but on a larger scale, they get to rewrite the laws and definitions so that when they take something that belongs to someone else, it isn't stealing.

I am not claiming that Verizon doesn't consider tethering within the data cap of your "unlimited" plan to be stealing. They do, primarily because they denied a basic service under your data plan in order to create a second service that they could charge you a second time for.

It's their definition, but I do not believe that the casual user's occasional use of tethering, so long as they stay under their plan's data cap, is stealing in the conventional sense.

 

[SquireSCA]

The thing is, Verizon CLEARLY states that if you want to tether, you have to pay for it. period. there is no discussion. its THEIR network, you signed THEIR terms of service when you got the phone. there's no moral or intellectual issue here. you either comply or you're in violation. One or the other. regardless of how you feel. there are no comparable analogies with food, sunlight, pets, deodorant, office supplies, clothing, plasma, gravity or bodily fluids. If you "feel" verizon is wrong and you don't want to comply,your options are to leave them or violate their terms of service and face the consequences. End of story.
Thank you. Now I'm gonna go to the gas station, buy 10 gallons of gas, and only give them $20 because that's how much gas cost when I bought my car, and if I follow the logic here, that's all I should have to pay.

Many of us barely tether, that's not the point!

There was no tether plan when I signed up at AT&T or Verizon.

Tethering was about 5% of why I rooted. We can make this about tethering all you want, it isn't the real issue. If some people do it and abuse it, cap their account or charge them more.

If we root and VZW doesn't want the warranty liability, then track it and blacklist the phones.

But to take things further and talk about canceling contracts, making us pay ETF's and things, simply because I wanted to back up my phone? Change the icons? Take screen caps of my friggan phone that I paid for and continue to pay for?

BS.

 

[freezyfreaky]

Everyone needs to get out of the mindset that this whole thing is about tethering. It's not. Not by a longshot.

I agree. Locking the bootloaders on phones is to protect their cell phone business as a whole. Really, what is Verizon Wireless slowly turning into but a wireless ISP? Aren't our phones just little mobile computers?

People are already avoiding phone charges by using their computers for calls and teleconferencing. With unlocked bootloaders and the ability to put any software on their phones using their networks, any of their services that they charge for can be easily duplicated and replaced for free or cheaper by somebody else.

Same thing is happening with cable companies. Some people are already looking to ditch their cable plan are looking for free or cheaper Internet replacements.

The technology that is out today is causing disruption with established standard business models by taking away their advantages. Look at NetFlix and how they destroyed BlockBuster. Ever wonder why the newest movies aren't available through NetFlix's streaming service? Hollywood can't sell that to them without pissing off all their other licensees. Why did NBC, Fox, ABC, and Disney create Hulu? To get their foot in the door to cover all their baskets.

I heard of a Internet startup called BankSimple that is trying to disrupt big banks for personal banking. They are going to be able to offer higher interest returns on your savings because they have zero brick and mortar costs. They are partnering up with other small banks for ATM service. Who needs a branch when everything is ETF and you can deposit checks by scanning it with your phone?

I wouldn't be surprised if someone raised enough money and create a company that is purely a wireless ISP play. I would love to see what my cell phone bill would be then!

 

[Preach2k]

Are the Days of Rooting Android Phones Coming to an End?

Are the Days of Rooting Android Phones Coming to an End?

I read a troubling thread over at MyDroidWorld this This morning from community developer P3Droid. His report spoke of an industry-wide movement to crack down on users who root their devices. Yes, tethering your data is a violation of your contract and any carrier has the right to shut you down and make you pay for that right. But it’s more than just “illegal” use of data if he’s to be believed.

Verizon or any of these others carriers plan to do with the information they are collecting about rooted users, but you can bet that we’ll know before too long. With 1-year upgrades disappearing, new 4G LTE networks and amazing high speeds taking over, and manufacturers like HTC seemingly giving into to carrier lock-down demands, it’s time to get real picky when it comes to your next phone purchase. Your thoughts?


To see More of The Story Go Here:Droid Life



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[CoFoltman84]

most new phones a fast and have built in themes(i know htc does this, not sure about others). 2 main reasons I rooted. So I'm pretty sure when my upgrade comes up in November, I'll have a phone that I won't need to root.

 

[DyMiC]

My bad. It just makes me irate when I actually realize what these corporations are capable of.

And I would say revolt via Class Action, but Verizon is already safeguarding themselves from this by doing away with the unlimited data.

Ugh. This sucks more and more. Just when cell phone service was starting to look good, it has to start receding right back into the dark ages.

Let me try to understand this. Are you saying that people like you should file a class action suit against Verizon because they are trying to stop you from doing something that violates the contract that you signed? :rofl3:

You want to understand. Here. I'll explain.

Basically.... if I told you that you get UNLIMITED cigarettes from me for 30 bucks a month. As many as you wanted/needed. And I made you sign a 13 page contract that would make you pay me 30 bucks a month for 2 years for UNLIMITED Ciggies, but somewhere in this 13 page contract, I put in very fine print that I would cap you off after your 5th Carton.... wouldn't that be basically falsely advertising to you and swindling you into something that isn't what you believed to be buying at all in the first place?

I mean, this is just how I feel. I don't care about tethering. Like I said, we're kinda jerks for going around them and using it for free. But the Unlimited thing is what bugs me. Why not say "5GB/month at 3G speeds, and after 5GB, the speed gets reduced down to half the speed of 3G."? It just seems more logical instead of lying and swindling people.

 

[credemann]

FCC on users side...

What about this FCC ruling? Seems the FCC is on the users side.

iPhone jailbreaking (and all cell phone unlocking) made legal - Yahoo! News

 

[jkhonea]

The FCC says it's legal to root. It says nothing about a carrier having to provide service to a rooted user. That's the breaking point.