Yeah, about that...I used to work at an insurance company(couldn't get out of there quick enough) When you test drive, depending on your policy, it may be covered by your insurance or it may be covered by the dealers insurance, but hey, I'll let you have that one and say its definitely covered by your insurance. However, if you are pulling another vehicle with your car, your insurance will only cover it IF YOU PAY EXTRA TO COVER THE ADDITIONAL CAR! hmmm tethering...
DroidForums.net | Android Forum & News
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
- Thread starter barski
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Yeah, about that...I used to work at an insurance company(couldn't get out of there quick enough) When you test drive, depending on your policy, it may be covered by your insurance or it may be covered by the dealers insurance, but hey, I'll let you have that one and say its definitely covered by your insurance. However, if you are pulling another vehicle with your car, your insurance will only cover it IF YOU PAY EXTRA TO COVER THE ADDITIONAL CAR! hmmm tethering...
This is ridiculous! Why does everyone associate root with free tether! There are plenty of tether ap's on the ANDROID MARKET for nonroot users. Cracking down on root users has little to do with tethering. Think people, there is obviously something being overlooked here. The question that should be asked is what the motivation is behind locking down devices and eliminating root.
Agreed. I'm guilty of fanning the flame of the tether fire. I apologize.
What's funny though is that if they want to blame rooted users for all the illegal tethering they need to go look at Easy Tether and PDA Net. Last I checked the two biggest tethering applications do NOT require root access. So what are they going to do? Blame the 1% of their user base that root for all things evil in the world when the other 99% can do the same exact thing?
I don't tether. Have never wanted too. However, I do want root access. It's MY $600 device. I will do whatever the hell I want with MY device. I don't want Blockbuster or Let's Golf 2. I don't want crappy ass Sense or Blur.
The carries and manufacturers can spout BS like "it's for user safety" all day long. It won't matter. If somebody want to exploit it for root access it will happen. I'm willing to bet 90% of those who root know what they're doing and why they are rooting. The other 10% do it with one clicks because they want to proclaim their "badassness" and show off their TOS breaking tether abilities, when their actual knowledge about Android is lower then a pet rock. That same 10% is probably made up of some of the morons who downloaded Sexy Screaming Japanese Girls and got infected by DroidDream.
If companies want to offer a "developer" phone that's fine. However, they better be up to par hardware wise and not priced into oblivion in order to try to discourage people from buying them. I'm sure there's a compromise in the middle that would be acceptable to all sides however, I honestly just don't see it happening as the greedy bastards just want to stick it to us.
Unfortunately, its because of those 10% that the cariers can quickly and easily point a finger and say "look what they're ALL doing" the 10% who don't know what they are doing make it so carriers can spout off things like stopping free tethering, or preventing malware, or stopping the return of bricked phones. Who knows exactly what the carriers reasons are(although I'm 100% certain it boils down to money in the end) but as long as those 10% out there are out there, they make it very easy for the carriers to validate what they are doing.
This is ridiculous! Why does everyone associate root with free tether! There are plenty of tether ap's on the ANDROID MARKET for nonroot users. Cracking down on root users has little to do with tethering. Think people, there is obviously something being overlooked here. The question that should be asked is what the motivation is behind locking down devices and eliminating root.
I've jumped on the tethering reasoning bandwagon too. Probably because its one of the easiest things to see that people shouldn't be doing but are doing, and its probably one of the biggest things the carriers will state as a reason for locking phones down because its so easy to show that people are doing it ("Hey, look how many times PDAnet has been downloaded") Why leave PDAnet and others in the market...hmmm...pretty diabolical.
I haven't read everything, but I've gotten the gist of it. Sadly, the hacking community is only a small part of the Android community. Also, where there are no phones that can be rooted and no carriers that dont' care, we will all eventually have to just deal with it.
FYI, I root for ROMS, the removal of bloatware and tweaks that I want on my phone.
FYI, I root for ROMS, the removal of bloatware and tweaks that I want on my phone.
I give up on this forum. People freak about anything on here. p3droid is covering his ass for releasing a unreleased firmware that Verizon CAN see in his GB Droid 2/X ROM. No one is listening to me because they all believe he's a prophet of the Android world.
YES p3droid NO p3droid HOW HIGH p3droid.
YES p3droid NO p3droid HOW HIGH p3droid.
I'm sure this has been said by at least 30+ people already but I'll throw in my $.02 because that's what the internet is for.
As far as "illegal" tethering, it's my data plan. I agree that people who abuse such privileges should be charged more, and I'm certain Verizon, AT&T ect. can tell who is abusing the bandwidth and should charge them accordingly. Put a data cap, have data be broken into tiers and do away with charging extra for tethering. People who legitimately need to tether can go with a business like tier, whereas people like me have a cap, and if we go over, we pay extra.
I'm tethering right now because I'm out in the middle of PA, have no internet and it's a huge pain in the ass to try to check out and reply to emails or even try to get to flash heavy websites(OG Droid User). However, If I do this, and Verizon thinks I'm hogging too much bandwidth checking out my online banking, I'll pay for it. However I'm not paying at least $20 a month for something I'll use maybe 4 or 5 times a YEAR.
Not to mention, I'm just websurfing and replying to emails. The people who are using it for XBLM, PSN, or anything that uses a abnormal amount of data are indeed ruining it for us but that's how it is. There will always be bad eggs, and manufacturers/carriers taking it out on people who are not abusing such privileges is BS to say the least.
As far as a moral stand, screw that noise. Let's say they do tier plans with a data cap, If I pay $30-$50 a month for a 5 gig cap, if I don't go over that cap, will I get my money back for the data I don't use? No, that will never happen, so why should they care how I use my data, or for a better argument, why should I care? They're going to get $50 for me using maybe $20 worth of data, and I'm the bad guy for using that data to tether? Your moral compass needs to be adjusted.
I don't like the fact that I'm paying at least $500 for a device that is restricted right out of the box. How would you feel if you bought a TV that has 2 out of 4 HDMI ports locked out until you go through a firmware flash to get the other 2 working? It's the same concept with phones. I have to go through the process of rooting to get the most out of my phone, and even though i enjoy the process because it has taught me a lot, it's a hassle I shouldn't have to go through because I paid for the phone. And for those saying I'm "technically" only paying for some and the carrier is paying the rest, again, it's BS. I'm getting the phone at a reduced prices because I'm LOCKED onto a 1 or 2 year contract, and if I break said contract, I have to pay an ETF. That combined with the price I paid originally easily equals the price of the phone unlocked, which is funny because I can't get an unlocked phone from Verizon, or I can but I have to go through another hassle of flashing it to another carrier and things may not work properly even if I do. However that last example I guess is tailored to Verizon only.
TL;DR
In short, I agree things need to change in order to protect manufacturers, carriers and customers alike, however I believe they're going about this all wrong. They need to remember this following started because of the idea of open source, and to me, this is a huge jump backwards.
As far as "illegal" tethering, it's my data plan. I agree that people who abuse such privileges should be charged more, and I'm certain Verizon, AT&T ect. can tell who is abusing the bandwidth and should charge them accordingly. Put a data cap, have data be broken into tiers and do away with charging extra for tethering. People who legitimately need to tether can go with a business like tier, whereas people like me have a cap, and if we go over, we pay extra.
I'm tethering right now because I'm out in the middle of PA, have no internet and it's a huge pain in the ass to try to check out and reply to emails or even try to get to flash heavy websites(OG Droid User). However, If I do this, and Verizon thinks I'm hogging too much bandwidth checking out my online banking, I'll pay for it. However I'm not paying at least $20 a month for something I'll use maybe 4 or 5 times a YEAR.
Not to mention, I'm just websurfing and replying to emails. The people who are using it for XBLM, PSN, or anything that uses a abnormal amount of data are indeed ruining it for us but that's how it is. There will always be bad eggs, and manufacturers/carriers taking it out on people who are not abusing such privileges is BS to say the least.
As far as a moral stand, screw that noise. Let's say they do tier plans with a data cap, If I pay $30-$50 a month for a 5 gig cap, if I don't go over that cap, will I get my money back for the data I don't use? No, that will never happen, so why should they care how I use my data, or for a better argument, why should I care? They're going to get $50 for me using maybe $20 worth of data, and I'm the bad guy for using that data to tether? Your moral compass needs to be adjusted.
I don't like the fact that I'm paying at least $500 for a device that is restricted right out of the box. How would you feel if you bought a TV that has 2 out of 4 HDMI ports locked out until you go through a firmware flash to get the other 2 working? It's the same concept with phones. I have to go through the process of rooting to get the most out of my phone, and even though i enjoy the process because it has taught me a lot, it's a hassle I shouldn't have to go through because I paid for the phone. And for those saying I'm "technically" only paying for some and the carrier is paying the rest, again, it's BS. I'm getting the phone at a reduced prices because I'm LOCKED onto a 1 or 2 year contract, and if I break said contract, I have to pay an ETF. That combined with the price I paid originally easily equals the price of the phone unlocked, which is funny because I can't get an unlocked phone from Verizon, or I can but I have to go through another hassle of flashing it to another carrier and things may not work properly even if I do. However that last example I guess is tailored to Verizon only.
TL;DR
In short, I agree things need to change in order to protect manufacturers, carriers and customers alike, however I believe they're going about this all wrong. They need to remember this following started because of the idea of open source, and to me, this is a huge jump backwards.
As far as a moral stand, screw that noise. Let's say they do tier plans with a data cap, If I pay $30-$50 a month for a 5 gig cap, if I don't go over that cap, will I get my money back for the data I don't use? No, that will never happen, so why should they care how I use my data, or for a better argument, why should I care? They're going to get $50 for me using maybe $20 worth of data, and I'm the bad guy for using that data to tether? Your moral compass needs to be adjusted.
I don't like the fact that I'm paying at least $500 for a device that is restricted right out of the box. How would you feel if you bought a TV that has 2 out of 4 HDMI ports locked out until you go through a firmware flash to get the other 2 working? It's the same concept with phones. I have to go through the process of rooting to get the most out of my phone, and even though i enjoy the process because it has taught me a lot, it's a hassle I shouldn't have to go through because I paid for the phone. And for those saying I'm "technically" only paying for some and the carrier is paying the rest, again, it's BS. I'm getting the phone at a reduced prices because I'm LOCKED onto a 1 or 2 year contract, and if I break said contract, I have to pay an ETF. That combined with the price I paid originally easily equals the price of the phone unlocked, which is funny because I can't get an unlocked phone from Verizon, or I can but I have to go through another hassle of flashing it to another carrier and things may not work properly even if I do. However that last example I guess is tailored to Verizon only.
This is Truth!:icon_ banana:
JerseyFirefighter
Member
Everyone needs to get out of the mindset that this whole thing is about tethering. It's not. Not by a longshot.
I agree. Locking the bootloaders on phones is to protect their cell phone business as a whole. Really, what is Verizon Wireless slowly turning into but a wireless ISP? Aren't our phones just little mobile computers?
People are already avoiding phone charges by using their computers for calls and teleconferencing. With unlocked bootloaders and the ability to put any software on their phones using their networks, any of their services that they charge for can be easily duplicated and replaced for free or cheaper by somebody else.
Same thing is happening with cable companies. Some people are already looking to ditch their cable plan are looking for free or cheaper Internet replacements.
The technology that is out today is causing disruption with established standard business models by taking away their advantages. Look at NetFlix and how they destroyed BlockBuster. Ever wonder why the newest movies aren't available through NetFlix's streaming service? Hollywood can't sell that to them without pissing off all their other licensees. Why did NBC, Fox, ABC, and Disney create Hulu? To get their foot in the door to cover all their baskets.
I heard of a Internet startup called BankSimple that is trying to disrupt big banks for personal banking. They are going to be able to offer higher interest returns on your savings because they have zero brick and mortar costs. They are partnering up with other small banks for ATM service. Who needs a branch when everything is ETF and you can deposit checks by scanning it with your phone?
I wouldn't be surprised if someone raised enough money and create a company that is purely a wireless ISP play. I would love to see what my cell phone bill would be then!
Netflix had a better business model than blockbuster, just as redbox did until the movie studios hamstrung them. Maybe it's just the little guy in me, but if a big business has a problem with the way a smaller business is operating, it must be because the smaller business has them beat. Shame on any of these corporations not acknowledging the fact that live video streaming, and the increased consumption of bandwidth via tablets and smartphones isnt RIGHT around the corner. Every step they take towards fighting it is another step away from their business for me. Look at cable. Their **** service, their crappy laggy u/i's. I welcome google tv with open arms the second they can get hulu plus out. between that and netflix gives me a $20 max cable bill for movies and major network content. (not inclusive of my internet plan that I already have anyway. Goodbye Comcast...
Bottom line, it is their bandwidth that we are buying, they are trying to protect it the best they can. I understand that, there are a ton of ways for the carries to do that. Seems to me that Root is not the problem, if it is tethering, go after the people that tether. Just don't load my phone up with crap that I don't want. Id pay for tether if I needed it. I'd pay for blockbuster if I wanted it, or CityID or whatever the crap of the day the carriers are trying to sell. Stop force feeding me s*it just because you want to nudge me up to another rate profile.
BigMcGuire
Active Member
Bottom line, it is their bandwidth that we are buying, they are trying to protect it the best they can. I understand that, there are a ton of ways for the carries to do that. Seems to me that Root is not the problem, if it is tethering, go after the people that tether. Just don't load my phone up with crap that I don't want. Id pay for tether if I needed it. I'd pay for blockbuster if I wanted it, or CityID or whatever the crap of the day the carriers are trying to sell. Stop force feeding me s*it just because you want to nudge me up to another rate profile.
That bout sums it up. A lot of us (myself included) root cuz we don't like the bloatware on the phones. I'm one of those people that pay for what I use. Since 2009 I don't think I've gone over 2.0GB, at all. Now that I have a phone that can actually use WiFi (Thunderbolt vs OG Droid) I probably won't ever go over 2GB. Don't force feed me crap for something I'm paying. Primary reason why I rooted was to get rid of that stuff.
The real question is - what can we do about this? It seems like if ALL carriers and ALL major manufacturers agree to this **** and implement it, the community can't really put up much of a fight... "taking your business elsewhere" only works if there are alternatives, and it seems like there isn't going to be that.
BigMcGuire
Active Member
The real question is - what can we do about this? It seems like if ALL carriers and ALL major manufacturers agree to this **** and implement it, the community can't really put up much of a fight... "taking your business elsewhere" only works if there are alternatives, and it seems like there isn't going to be that.
Already thought about it. Either I'll get an iPhone (doesn't force feed us bloatware) or pay the ETF and live with a Dumb Phone with unlimited minutes ($40/month) and use my Thunderbolt as a Wifi PDA with SipDroid or some other voip.
As a last result for the die hard hackers you could by a phone with no contract then slap a custom rom on there an use it on wifi only. For most this is unrealistic, and poses a security risk.
BTW thanks Mods for putting this on front page, never thought i would see my name there.dancedroid
BTW thanks Mods for putting this on front page, never thought i would see my name there.dancedroid
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Similar threads
- Replies
- 0
- Views
- 3K
- Replies
- 45
- Views
- 10K
- Replies
- 66
- Views
- 23K
- Replies
- 61
- Views
- 14K