Excellent post. And you will never see anyone respond to the fact that it's against the TOS, because there is no justification and their foolish analogies about buffets, and cable, and dog food rations are just their failed attempts at reaching for something that they know they have no leg to stand on with. It's actually comical seeing them trying so hard to justify this stuff
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P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
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Excellent post. And you will never see anyone respond to the fact that it's against the TOS, because there is no justification and their foolish analogies about buffets, and cable, and dog food rations are just their failed attempts at reaching for something that they know they have no leg to stand on with. It's actually comical seeing them trying so hard to justify this stuff
I'll wear the Barney costume and dance if someone youtubes it ;-D
Where's Rodney King when you need him?
DoctorDeDroid
Member
Well... I guess it wouldn't bother me so much if tethering
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DoctorDeDroid
Member
Well just forget that... I hit the wrong button.
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jengas kahn
Member
HB, I'm not sure what you mean by trashing blur... Can you remove motoblur without root? Are you even talking about motoblur?
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Jail breaking is the original form of what is rooting on the android. Jail breaking installs an app store that allows the user to download application all free which would normally cost money on apples. Not only that does it have mods on other source sites, of which the most popular ones by about double of any other mod is the hack to un-cap the data throttle and make a wifi hot spot.
Apple may have been so pissed at Cydia after so many years and over 9 million or so jail broken devices Stevie Jobs went head over heals and went after them for theft based on the code of which Cydia is based off of.
Regardless of how they attempted to kill Cydia, the court made a precedent.
Apple Officially Claims Jailbreaking Illegal
While I could list them all Fred von Lohmann of the Electronic Frontier Foundation which confronts cutting-edge issues defending free speech, privacy, innovation, and consumer rights says it best with his statment:
If this sounds like FUD, that's because it is. One need only transpose Apple's arguments to the world of automobiles to recognize their absurdity. Sure, GM might tell us that, for our own safety, all servicing should be done by an authorized GM dealer using only genuine GM parts. Toyota might say that swapping your engine could reduce the reliability of your car. And Mazda could say that those who throw a supercharger on their Miatas frequently exceed the legal speed limit.
But we'd never accept this corporate paternalism as a justification for welding every car hood shut and imposing legal liability on car buffs tinkering in their garages. After all, the culture of tinkering (or hacking, if you prefer) is an important part of our innovation economy.
Of course, many iPhone owners will be happy to choose solely from the applications that Apple is willing to approve, just like many Ford owners are happy relying exclusively on their local Ford dealer. But if you want to pop the hood, the DMCA surely shouldn't stand in your way."
Like it or hate it, it is not hard to be used as a precedent and defend any rooting done on any platform. Last time I saw the forums I have never seen a post of being suspended. Yes Apple can try since AT&T has yet to do anything about the thousands or more who have these mods. They try to every update but it never works after all these years.
Now why is it so hard to put VZW in the same position? Last time I checked you signed a contract anytime you used itunes and even had a second one with AT&T.
You all can leave your righteousness at the door, theres a monster out there that Verizon can't kill yet. Why would they look at a community less than half its size almost?
DoctorDeDroid
Member
Fiddlestix
Ok, as I was going to say before I fat-fingered this, I'm over 50 so this is going to ramble a bit.
Tethering: it wouldn't bother me if I could tether as-needed for a few bucks each time. But nooooo.... I have to pay 20 bucks a month on top of a 30 dollar a month unlimited data plan... and I'm limited to 2 GB. That's just not worth how I would use it. If I have wifi why on earth would I BOTHER to tether? My usage patter would never justify the expense. There is fair and then there is doing what you do because you can... it's the 'Merican way. I don't tether, I haven't tethered and now it looks like I'll never tether. @ T-mobile it's a freebie which is why I suspect ATT is trying to buy em out. You don't even need anything extra to do it. But if the ATT deal goes down I'm sure VZW will try. I don't think they like T-Mobile, but then again, I'm not too keen on 'em either.
Rooting: I don't see why it's a big deal but it is to these guys because you clearly can get a couple of goodies for free that they feel they can charge a big fee for. Sure there is the brick your phone and rip-off the carrier by playing dumb, but I'd like to think my integrity is worth far more than $200. So if I were to root and break it, I wouldn't go crying to my mommy if I broke my phone.
We DID sign the contract and even if we didn't read it, it says there in black and white: no rooting! And btw, no tethering until you've paid. It's kind of like the speed limit... the law is: you don't go any faster than that. If you get caught you pay the fine... but they don't take your car away. It's a damn shame that a few people decided to run their x-boxes, home internet, whatever thru their phone... (funny, so even if you pay the 20 bucks a month you still can't run your home network thru your phone! Not at a 2 GB limit anyway!)
Perhaps VZW shouldn't use the word "unlimited" to describe the "unlimited" plan we're on?
Ok, as I was going to say before I fat-fingered this, I'm over 50 so this is going to ramble a bit.
Tethering: it wouldn't bother me if I could tether as-needed for a few bucks each time. But nooooo.... I have to pay 20 bucks a month on top of a 30 dollar a month unlimited data plan... and I'm limited to 2 GB. That's just not worth how I would use it. If I have wifi why on earth would I BOTHER to tether? My usage patter would never justify the expense. There is fair and then there is doing what you do because you can... it's the 'Merican way. I don't tether, I haven't tethered and now it looks like I'll never tether. @ T-mobile it's a freebie which is why I suspect ATT is trying to buy em out. You don't even need anything extra to do it. But if the ATT deal goes down I'm sure VZW will try. I don't think they like T-Mobile, but then again, I'm not too keen on 'em either.
Rooting: I don't see why it's a big deal but it is to these guys because you clearly can get a couple of goodies for free that they feel they can charge a big fee for. Sure there is the brick your phone and rip-off the carrier by playing dumb, but I'd like to think my integrity is worth far more than $200. So if I were to root and break it, I wouldn't go crying to my mommy if I broke my phone.
We DID sign the contract and even if we didn't read it, it says there in black and white: no rooting! And btw, no tethering until you've paid. It's kind of like the speed limit... the law is: you don't go any faster than that. If you get caught you pay the fine... but they don't take your car away. It's a damn shame that a few people decided to run their x-boxes, home internet, whatever thru their phone... (funny, so even if you pay the 20 bucks a month you still can't run your home network thru your phone! Not at a 2 GB limit anyway!)
Perhaps VZW shouldn't use the word "unlimited" to describe the "unlimited" plan we're on?
camaro1173
Member
OK know I have spent all most 2 hr going threw and reading all the replies.
I now would like to give my 2 cents as well.
The way that I look at rooting phones is, I did it so I could customize it and and make it more mine. I am a firm be leaver in the scene of buying something it is now mine and I can do what I what with it. But if rooting it voids the warranty then that is something I have to deal with my choice I have no problem with that.
In the talk about tethering and using up data, I think that a cap of some sort is a good idea if you are using a wired tether app (usb cable to laptop) because in me eyes I am the one that is paying for the data and I am the one on my phone and on my laptop not some one in the else. In the replies there is a example about your so called friend splitting your cable line before your house and that is stealing, just like if you came to my back yard and hooked up your house to my water line. I would have to pay for all the water you used that would be stealing as well. So I do not see why if you are on your own phone tethered to your laptop via a USB cable it is considered stealing.
My last tidbit is going to be about they extra 20 I would have to pay to be able to wireless tether 5 devises. As in there add it shows other people using the data that I would be paying for and I do not see that this is right at all, I think that those 5 people around me using the data that I am paying for as they are staling it from me at least in my mind. Plus don't for get that with that extra 20 bucks it is for only a given amount of data so they (the other devices) might push me over the amount and end up costing me more $$$$ in the long run.
I am rooted and I did use the wired tether app like 3 times in the woods camping to try and find some place to get good dinner.
I now would like to give my 2 cents as well.
The way that I look at rooting phones is, I did it so I could customize it and and make it more mine. I am a firm be leaver in the scene of buying something it is now mine and I can do what I what with it. But if rooting it voids the warranty then that is something I have to deal with my choice I have no problem with that.
In the talk about tethering and using up data, I think that a cap of some sort is a good idea if you are using a wired tether app (usb cable to laptop) because in me eyes I am the one that is paying for the data and I am the one on my phone and on my laptop not some one in the else. In the replies there is a example about your so called friend splitting your cable line before your house and that is stealing, just like if you came to my back yard and hooked up your house to my water line. I would have to pay for all the water you used that would be stealing as well. So I do not see why if you are on your own phone tethered to your laptop via a USB cable it is considered stealing.
My last tidbit is going to be about they extra 20 I would have to pay to be able to wireless tether 5 devises. As in there add it shows other people using the data that I would be paying for and I do not see that this is right at all, I think that those 5 people around me using the data that I am paying for as they are staling it from me at least in my mind. Plus don't for get that with that extra 20 bucks it is for only a given amount of data so they (the other devices) might push me over the amount and end up costing me more $$$$ in the long run.
I am rooted and I did use the wired tether app like 3 times in the woods camping to try and find some place to get good dinner.
JerseyFirefighter
Member
Id just like to point out how ridiculous and silly you sound by continuing to capitalize the word "clearly". Even if it is to emphasize another persons post. It just comes off as snobbish...
What they need to do is stop being greedy! We pay for an Internet pipe, we have capped data. We should be able to use this data however we choose, as WE HAVE A FREAKING CAP ALREADY.
I am about to drop all my Verizion $h!+ all together. If I have just one issue with ANY of this I will drop my entire FiOS pipe, Internet, Phone, AND TV! I pay for Upgraded FiOS, 2 phones with data, and I tether like 20MB a month, MAYBE. That is not worth $20 on top for a tethering plan! I would JUMP on a provider that promotes OPEN DEVELOPMENT of OPEN SOURCE ANDROID like it is nobody's business.
Maybe 1 provider should jump on this and say, WE ARE OPEN! We would be just like we are now, and we would have a cap just like we do not, and we would pay an overage.... JUST LIKE WE DO NOW, RIGHT!?
I would even pay an early termination fee with Verizon Wireless to jump on a provider that promoted phones, and Android as Open as it was initially intended!
They should just make people pay overages when they go over a cap (LIKE THEY DO NOW), and not lock down phones. What we need is that Open Cell Phone Provider, that actually gives a crap about us, and not molesting us for every penny they can! Open Phone manufacturers that use tools that have been developed during all of our endeavors, and a plan that won't break the bank! Virgin/Sprint would be perfect for this, as they are the little guy (or might be soon).
Maybe these providers should remove their heads from their backside, and realize it is not just about them, and them MILKING the bottom line, and us! I can't even fathom what percentage of my paycheck just goes to VERIZON! Now they want more, and I already use my FiOS WiFi when I am at home, and Work's when at work, what more do these bee-cheese want!?!?!?
I am about to drop all my Verizion $h!+ all together. If I have just one issue with ANY of this I will drop my entire FiOS pipe, Internet, Phone, AND TV! I pay for Upgraded FiOS, 2 phones with data, and I tether like 20MB a month, MAYBE. That is not worth $20 on top for a tethering plan! I would JUMP on a provider that promotes OPEN DEVELOPMENT of OPEN SOURCE ANDROID like it is nobody's business.
Maybe 1 provider should jump on this and say, WE ARE OPEN! We would be just like we are now, and we would have a cap just like we do not, and we would pay an overage.... JUST LIKE WE DO NOW, RIGHT!?
I would even pay an early termination fee with Verizon Wireless to jump on a provider that promoted phones, and Android as Open as it was initially intended!
They should just make people pay overages when they go over a cap (LIKE THEY DO NOW), and not lock down phones. What we need is that Open Cell Phone Provider, that actually gives a crap about us, and not molesting us for every penny they can! Open Phone manufacturers that use tools that have been developed during all of our endeavors, and a plan that won't break the bank! Virgin/Sprint would be perfect for this, as they are the little guy (or might be soon).
Maybe these providers should remove their heads from their backside, and realize it is not just about them, and them MILKING the bottom line, and us! I can't even fathom what percentage of my paycheck just goes to VERIZON! Now they want more, and I already use my FiOS WiFi when I am at home, and Work's when at work, what more do these bee-cheese want!?!?!?
What exactly do I need to justify? I rarely tether, and when I do it is brief and simply for convenience "because is there". If they eliminated all tethering tomorrow, I wouldn't give a crap because it doesn't effect me.
I am just saying that philiosophically, I think that when you already pay top dollar for the unlimited plan, and you stay well under whatever GB limit they place on "unlimited", that whether I checked email from the phone directly, or via the phone from my laptop, is irrelevant.
I don't need tethering, so if VZW said that if I want to tether then I have to pay for it, I wouldn't because I don't need it.
Rooting is not about tethering to me. It's about being able to rely on the community to fix and address issues and limitations of the phone itself, oftentimes to get it to do and perform the way it was supposed to out of the box.
So you can whine about tethering all you want, I don't really care, because as I said, I tethered 4 times in 7 months, for a combined time of about 15 minutes. I am pretty sure that for what I used, the almost $900 I have paid in those months should cover it.
90% of my phone's data usage, is over Wifi, so I am not using more than a fraction what I am paying for.
So get off your high horse. You are against tethering, WE GET IT.
Now how about we get back to what this topic is actually about; Rooting?
OneTenderRebel
Silver Member
I like Turtles.............
Well said, sir. In relation to automobiles, there is a Federal law that was passed in the 1970's that said that you can get your oil changes done at places other than the dealership, and you can use aftermarket parts in your car.
And if the car breaks, it is up to the dealer or manufacturer of the car to PROVE that your use of that part or other service center is what CAUSED the problem, or else they must, by law, honor the warranty.
That is what is so funny about this stuff. It's a repeat of history from other industries. The auto makers failed when they tried to mandate that you had to have all service and all parts come from authorized dealers or else your warranty was void. It was challenged and they lost, and the something Magnuson-Moss Act was passed:
Magnuson
Apple tried their hand at the same thing, claiming that rooting and using another app store was stealing from them, because you were able to get a free app that they charged for. Sound like a familiar argument? Ahem...
They lost that.
There are other examples, but the people that are open minded about this, they get the point. The lemmings following the VZW marching beat will continue to walk off the cliff in their self-righteousness... Let them.
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