P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[SquireSCA]

I like Turtles.............

So do I, but I am not paying extra for them, damn it.

 

[really fascinating]

. Data
Content you send or receive from your wireless device other than calls and text messages. Data includes accessing the Internet, picture and video messaging, games and applications, email accounts and more. Sending and receiving data is billed based on the volume (Megabyte or Gigabyte) of data sent or received, and can be charged per-use or as part of a data package.

From Verizon web page sent or received from your phone not sent from your phone then to another device

Mobile Broadband Connect
A plan allowing you to use your wireless phone as a portable modem to access the Internet on your notebook.
The plan you need if you want to use your phone that way

Now if its not stealing or wrong... then why would two options be offered? So if you go to McDonald's at lunch one one side of town. Save your cup and on your way home you get a hankering for a big MAC and your thirsty is it ok to refill your cup when they have a sign saying refill on same visit only??????

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

 

[OneTenderRebel]

Did you root?

Then you are guilty, regardless of whether you tether daily or have tethered 4 times in the past 7 months as I have.

They are targeting ROOTERS, not just tetherers. People that have never tethered, are under scrutiny and attack because they rooted.

Jail breaking is the original form of what is rooting on the android. Jail breaking installs an app store that allows the user to download application all free which would normally cost money on apples. Not only that does it have mods on other source sites, of which the most popular ones by about double of any other mod is the hack to un-cap the data throttle and make a wifi hot spot.

Apple may have been so pissed at Cydia after so many years and over 9 million or so jail broken devices Stevie Jobs went head over heals and went after them for theft based on the code of which Cydia is based off of.

Regardless of how they attempted to kill Cydia, the court made a precedent.

Apple Officially Claims Jailbreaking Illegal


While I could list them all Fred von Lohmann of the Electronic Frontier Foundation which confronts cutting-edge issues defending free speech, privacy, innovation, and consumer rights says it best with his statment:

If this sounds like FUD, that's because it is. One need only transpose Apple's arguments to the world of automobiles to recognize their absurdity. Sure, GM might tell us that, for our own safety, all servicing should be done by an authorized GM dealer using only genuine GM parts. Toyota might say that swapping your engine could reduce the reliability of your car. And Mazda could say that those who throw a supercharger on their Miatas frequently exceed the legal speed limit.

But we'd never accept this corporate paternalism as a justification for welding every car hood shut and imposing legal liability on car buffs tinkering in their garages. After all, the culture of tinkering (or hacking, if you prefer) is an important part of our innovation economy.

Of course, many iPhone owners will be happy to choose solely from the applications that Apple is willing to approve, just like many Ford owners are happy relying exclusively on their local Ford dealer. But if you want to pop the hood, the DMCA surely shouldn't stand in your way."

Like it or hate it, it is not hard to be used as a precedent and defend any rooting done on any platform. Last time I saw the forums I have never seen a post of being suspended. Yes Apple can try since AT&T has yet to do anything about the thousands or more who have these mods. They try to every update but it never works after all these years.

Now why is it so hard to put VZW in the same position? Last time I checked you signed a contract anytime you used itunes and even had a second one with AT&T.

You all can leave your righteousness at the door, theres a monster out there that Verizon can't kill yet. Why would they look at a community less than half its size almost?

Well said, sir. In relation to automobiles, there is a Federal law that was passed in the 1970's that said that you can get your oil changes done at places other than the dealership, and you can use aftermarket parts in your car.

And if the car breaks, it is up to the dealer or manufacturer of the car to PROVE that your use of that part or other service center is what CAUSED the problem, or else they must, by law, honor the warranty.

That is what is so funny about this stuff. It's a repeat of history from other industries. The auto makers failed when they tried to mandate that you had to have all service and all parts come from authorized dealers or else your warranty was void. It was challenged and they lost, and the something Magnuson-Moss Act was passed:

Magnuson

Apple tried their hand at the same thing, claiming that rooting and using another app store was stealing from them, because you were able to get a free app that they charged for. Sound like a familiar argument? Ahem...

They lost that.

There are other examples, but the people that are open minded about this, they get the point. The lemmings following the VZW marching beat will continue to walk off the cliff in their self-righteousness... Let them.

you do realize your posts are becoming hypocritical right? One minute you are pointing fingers at rooters and now you are saying "screw em, do it anyway. It won't hold in a court of law". All the court case did was prevent Apple from suing people. It did not prevent them from voiding your warranty or AT&T voiding your warranty or even worse your contract. You still refuse to acknowledge the fact that it's clearly in the ToS not to tether. In a court of law that will hold up and they will probably laugh in your face when you try to bring the case forward. Now you can't be sued but you can be charged an ETF.

 

[axlx]

Did you root?

Then you are guilty, regardless of whether you tether daily or have tethered 4 times in the past 7 months as I have.

They are targeting ROOTERS, not just tetherers. People that have never tethered, are under scrutiny and attack because they rooted.

Jail breaking is the original form of what is rooting on the android. Jail breaking installs an app store that allows the user to download application all free which would normally cost money on apples. Not only that does it have mods on other source sites, of which the most popular ones by about double of any other mod is the hack to un-cap the data throttle and make a wifi hot spot.

Apple may have been so pissed at Cydia after so many years and over 9 million or so jail broken devices Stevie Jobs went head over heals and went after them for theft based on the code of which Cydia is based off of.

Regardless of how they attempted to kill Cydia, the court made a precedent.

Apple Officially Claims Jailbreaking Illegal


While I could list them all Fred von Lohmann of the Electronic Frontier Foundation which confronts cutting-edge issues defending free speech, privacy, innovation, and consumer rights says it best with his statment:

If this sounds like FUD, that's because it is. One need only transpose Apple's arguments to the world of automobiles to recognize their absurdity. Sure, GM might tell us that, for our own safety, all servicing should be done by an authorized GM dealer using only genuine GM parts. Toyota might say that swapping your engine could reduce the reliability of your car. And Mazda could say that those who throw a supercharger on their Miatas frequently exceed the legal speed limit.

But we'd never accept this corporate paternalism as a justification for welding every car hood shut and imposing legal liability on car buffs tinkering in their garages. After all, the culture of tinkering (or hacking, if you prefer) is an important part of our innovation economy.

Of course, many iPhone owners will be happy to choose solely from the applications that Apple is willing to approve, just like many Ford owners are happy relying exclusively on their local Ford dealer. But if you want to pop the hood, the DMCA surely shouldn't stand in your way."

Like it or hate it, it is not hard to be used as a precedent and defend any rooting done on any platform. Last time I saw the forums I have never seen a post of being suspended. Yes Apple can try since AT&T has yet to do anything about the thousands or more who have these mods. They try to every update but it never works after all these years.

Now why is it so hard to put VZW in the same position? Last time I checked you signed a contract anytime you used itunes and even had a second one with AT&T.

You all can leave your righteousness at the door, theres a monster out there that Verizon can't kill yet. Why would they look at a community less than half its size almost?

Well said, sir. In relation to automobiles, there is a Federal law that was passed in the 1970's that said that you can get your oil changes done at places other than the dealership, and you can use aftermarket parts in your car.

And if the car breaks, it is up to the dealer or manufacturer of the car to PROVE that your use of that part or other service center is what CAUSED the problem, or else they must, by law, honor the warranty.

That is what is so funny about this stuff. It's a repeat of history from other industries. The auto makers failed when they tried to mandate that you had to have all service and all parts come from authorized dealers or else your warranty was void. It was challenged and they lost, and the something Magnuson-Moss Act was passed:

Magnuson

Apple tried their hand at the same thing, claiming that rooting and using another app store was stealing from them, because you were able to get a free app that they charged for. Sound like a familiar argument? Ahem...

They lost that.

There are other examples, but the people that are open minded about this, they get the point. The lemmings following the VZW marching beat will continue to walk off the cliff in their self-righteousness... Let them.

Blah, thankyou. Nice to see there is some originality here. Was addicted to my ipod for a year straight moding it and making it a ghetto iphone tethering it via bluetooth to my LG voyager.

I don't mean to sound demeaning to people but I can't understand why I see phrases like "OMG!" they are coming after us, coming off as if the android community is giant and well rooted in the mod world.

Verizon has just recently gotten the iphone, why would they look at us when Verizon just died and went to heaven(and hell for the programmers) over all their new shiny money toys.

 

[tcayton49]

The disconnects from logic and reality on this forum are mindboggling. People are picking and choosing 3 words from an entire post and arguing that so they can keep up the pretense that there actions are justified. Any points that show how wrong they are just end up being completely ignored"(i've yet to read where anyone who thinks tethering is ok has responded to the fact that its against verizons TOS) And some people are just coming up with the most extreme/ridiculous analogies that have nothing to do with anything trying to save face. I guess some people were just raised to never admit to being wrong. Its great to see passion in the community, its just sad to see that passion blind people.

Excellent post. And you will never see anyone respond to the fact that it's against the TOS, because there is no justification and their foolish analogies about buffets, and cable, and dog food rations are just their failed attempts at reaching for something that they know they have no leg to stand on with. It's actually comical seeing them trying so hard to justify this stuff

What exactly do I need to justify? I rarely tether, and when I do it is brief and simply for convenience "because is there". If they eliminated all tethering tomorrow, I wouldn't give a crap because it doesn't effect me.

I am just saying that philiosophically, I think that when you already pay top dollar for the unlimited plan, and you stay well under whatever GB limit they place on "unlimited", that whether I checked email from the phone directly, or via the phone from my laptop, is irrelevant.

I don't need tethering, so if VZW said that if I want to tether then I have to pay for it, I wouldn't because I don't need it.

Rooting is not about tethering to me. It's about being able to rely on the community to fix and address issues and limitations of the phone itself, oftentimes to get it to do and perform the way it was supposed to out of the box.

So you can whine about tethering all you want, I don't really care, because as I said, I tethered 4 times in 7 months, for a combined time of about 15 minutes. I am pretty sure that for what I used, the almost $900 I have paid in those months should cover it.

90% of my phone's data usage, is over Wifi, so I am not using more than a fraction what I am paying for.

So get off your high horse. You are against tethering, WE GET IT.

Now how about we get back to what this topic is actually about; Rooting?

Once again...taking 3 words from the entire post and arguing against that.
You know what-I'm wrong. You're right. There. Can everyone be happy now?
How about we go back to being a COMMUNITY and try to figure out how to get this fixed...TOGETHER

 

[OneTenderRebel]

Jail breaking is the original form of what is rooting on the android. Jail breaking installs an app store that allows the user to download application all free which would normally cost money on apples. Not only that does it have mods on other source sites, of which the most popular ones by about double of any other mod is the hack to un-cap the data throttle and make a wifi hot spot.

Apple may have been so pissed at Cydia after so many years and over 9 million or so jail broken devices Stevie Jobs went head over heals and went after them for theft based on the code of which Cydia is based off of.

Regardless of how they attempted to kill Cydia, the court made a precedent.

Apple Officially Claims Jailbreaking Illegal


While I could list them all Fred von Lohmann of the Electronic Frontier Foundation which confronts cutting-edge issues defending free speech, privacy, innovation, and consumer rights says it best with his statment:

If this sounds like FUD, that's because it is. One need only transpose Apple's arguments to the world of automobiles to recognize their absurdity. Sure, GM might tell us that, for our own safety, all servicing should be done by an authorized GM dealer using only genuine GM parts. Toyota might say that swapping your engine could reduce the reliability of your car. And Mazda could say that those who throw a supercharger on their Miatas frequently exceed the legal speed limit.

But we'd never accept this corporate paternalism as a justification for welding every car hood shut and imposing legal liability on car buffs tinkering in their garages. After all, the culture of tinkering (or hacking, if you prefer) is an important part of our innovation economy.

Of course, many iPhone owners will be happy to choose solely from the applications that Apple is willing to approve, just like many Ford owners are happy relying exclusively on their local Ford dealer. But if you want to pop the hood, the DMCA surely shouldn't stand in your way."

Like it or hate it, it is not hard to be used as a precedent and defend any rooting done on any platform. Last time I saw the forums I have never seen a post of being suspended. Yes Apple can try since AT&T has yet to do anything about the thousands or more who have these mods. They try to every update but it never works after all these years.

Now why is it so hard to put VZW in the same position? Last time I checked you signed a contract anytime you used itunes and even had a second one with AT&T.

You all can leave your righteousness at the door, theres a monster out there that Verizon can't kill yet. Why would they look at a community less than half its size almost?

Well said, sir. In relation to automobiles, there is a Federal law that was passed in the 1970's that said that you can get your oil changes done at places other than the dealership, and you can use aftermarket parts in your car.

And if the car breaks, it is up to the dealer or manufacturer of the car to PROVE that your use of that part or other service center is what CAUSED the problem, or else they must, by law, honor the warranty.

That is what is so funny about this stuff. It's a repeat of history from other industries. The auto makers failed when they tried to mandate that you had to have all service and all parts come from authorized dealers or else your warranty was void. It was challenged and they lost, and the something Magnuson-Moss Act was passed:

Magnuson

Apple tried their hand at the same thing, claiming that rooting and using another app store was stealing from them, because you were able to get a free app that they charged for. Sound like a familiar argument? Ahem...

They lost that.

There are other examples, but the people that are open minded about this, they get the point. The lemmings following the VZW marching beat will continue to walk off the cliff in their self-righteousness... Let them.

Blah, thankyou. Nice to see there is some originality here. Was addicted to my ipod for a year straight moding it and making it a ghetto iphone tethering it via bluetooth to my LG voyager.

I don't mean to sound demeaning to people but I can't understand why I see phrases like "OMG!" they are coming after us, coming off as if the android community is giant and well rooted in the mod world.

Verizon has just recently gotten the iphone, why would they look at us when Verizon just died and went to heaven(and hell for the programmers) over all their new shiny money toys.

Well we have a few different debates here and I think some are getting mixed together. I don't think anyone is too worried about them coming to get us though, atleast I am not. I am confident they will issue warnings first, if this does all prove true. One thing for sure, this sure ignited a spirited debate, haha.

 

[snoop5]

i dont know whats going on i have GB with ll gingeraid and its smooth but ive had a lot of signal loses in places were the signal is usually strong for the last hour ive dropped calls and lost signal about 7 times just seems strange all of this talk about being watched and then all of a sudden dropping calls and losing signal. Things that make me go hmmmmm

 

[mwhartman]

My sense is things are heating up. Perhaps everyone should take a break.

 

[zero7404]

a shame things have to go this way ....

i didn't root my phone to use tethering for free or gain features that i'd otherwise have to pay for. i rooted my phone because android has a lot of locked down features. reason for this might be to allow manufacturers to customize the android experience to their liking - a double-edged sword - that adds fuel to the fragmentation fire, but at the same time manufacturers can choose to unlock features in android that will allow apps like 'screenshot' to do their job without needing root to do it. hence one may find an HTC device more desirable than a Motorola device because Sense may allow them to do things that Motoblur doesn't .... (perfect example: built-in themes).

so, what else is new ? the android's head is being turned by google because google is the dominant partner in the platform. every other smartphone platform is just as locked down if not worse than android. it's propaganda: because the platform started out as open-source and personalization was encouraged, now things are headed in the opposite direction but with a huge installed user base in tow.

 

[OneTenderRebel]

My sense is things are heating up. Perhaps everyone should take a break.

Perhaps some tea and crumpets?

 

[Jordan8]

Here's how I see the whole Tethering situation... I completely see why they charge for it NOW. With all the people who are tethering to xbox's & so forth. However, if/when Verizon goes to tiered data... if I'm paying for say 5gb of data per month, I expect to be able to use it how I want to... Whether it be my phone, computer, or whatever.

 

[mwhartman]

My sense is things are heating up. Perhaps everyone should take a break.

Perhaps some tea and crumpets?

Whatever it takes!

 

[DoctorDeDroid]

Telecoms have always been good at charging what the market can bear.

And these guys have to wipe the drool thinking about how they can tariff every little feature after getting us to pony up a big monthly fee. Have you checked your banks terms of service lately? ATT's add for tiered data sounded good.. until you saw how meager the data allowances were.

Too bad the big carriers all do the same thing... there is no competition...

Sent from my Droid using DroidForums

 

[SquireSCA]

. Data
Content you send or receive from your wireless device other than calls and text messages. Data includes accessing the Internet, picture and video messaging, games and applications, email accounts and more. Sending and receiving data is billed based on the volume (Megabyte or Gigabyte) of data sent or received, and can be charged per-use or as part of a data package.

From Verizon web page sent or received from your phone not sent from your phone then to another device

Mobile Broadband Connect
A plan allowing you to use your wireless phone as a portable modem to access the Internet on your notebook.
The plan you need if you want to use your phone that way

Now if its not stealing or wrong... then why would two options be offered? So if you go to McDonald's at lunch one one side of town. Save your cup and on your way home you get a hankering for a big MAC and your thirsty is it ok to refill your cup when they have a sign saying refill on same visit only??????

Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums

So everything that a corporation says, is automatically right? Moral? Accurate?

See my references to the Magnuson-Moss Act, and the ruling against Apple.

Both made the same claims, citing theft of services, warranty claims, etc...

Both times, the courts sided with consumers. The arguments that you, others and VZW are making, have been made before. And at the end of the day, they didn't matter a hill of beans.

Apple claimed that installing free apps instead of buying their apps, was stealing and illegal, and many people, people not unlike you, agreed with them. The courts said otherwise.

The automakers tried it before Apple, with the same result. Unless they could PROVE that you using another shop, or other parts, is what caused that particular problem, they could not void your warranty.

VZW says rooting voids the warranty. So what if the button falls off, or there are a bunch of defective phones and that rooted phone is one of them?

Almighty VZW says it is voided, they put it in writing. So did the automakers and the courts said no dice, the consumer bought the car, just as we bought these phones, we can do what we want and unless it is shown that doing so CAUSED the problem, the warranty is valid.

Apple complained about theft, because they charged for those apps. They lost.

Cable companies used to charge per TV, now they charge for the line, and any tuner/DVR boxes you need them to provide, not for each TV.

Many ISP's tried to charge per PC back in the day, and that got tossed out.

 

[czerdrill]

The disconnects from logic and reality on this forum are mindboggling. People are picking and choosing 3 words from an entire post and arguing that so they can keep up the pretense that there actions are justified. Any points that show how wrong they are just end up being completely ignored"(i've yet to read where anyone who thinks tethering is ok has responded to the fact that its against verizons TOS) And some people are just coming up with the most extreme/ridiculous analogies that have nothing to do with anything trying to save face. I guess some people were just raised to never admit to being wrong. Its great to see passion in the community, its just sad to see that passion blind people.

Excellent post. And you will never see anyone respond to the fact that it's against the TOS, because there is no justification and their foolish analogies about buffets, and cable, and dog food rations are just their failed attempts at reaching for something that they know they have no leg to stand on with. It's actually comical seeing them trying so hard to justify this stuff

What exactly do I need to justify? I rarely tether, and when I do it is brief and simply for convenience "because is there". If they eliminated all tethering tomorrow, I wouldn't give a crap because it doesn't effect me.

I am just saying that philiosophically, I think that when you already pay top dollar for the unlimited plan, and you stay well under whatever GB limit they place on "unlimited", that whether I checked email from the phone directly, or via the phone from my laptop, is irrelevant.

I don't need tethering, so if VZW said that if I want to tether then I have to pay for it, I wouldn't because I don't need it.

Rooting is not about tethering to me. It's about being able to rely on the community to fix and address issues and limitations of the phone itself, oftentimes to get it to do and perform the way it was supposed to out of the box.

So you can whine about tethering all you want, I don't really care, because as I said, I tethered 4 times in 7 months, for a combined time of about 15 minutes. I am pretty sure that for what I used, the almost $900 I have paid in those months should cover it.

90% of my phone's data usage, is over Wifi, so I am not using more than a fraction what I am paying for.

So get off your high horse. You are against tethering, WE GET IT.

Now how about we get back to what this topic is actually about; Rooting?

You keep speaking as if your the majority or something. As if all the people who are being targeted, as you put it, are freedom fighting rooters who just want to remove bloatware. Gimme a break man. Verizon is going after rooters and a major reason is because of tethering not because someone is removing bloatware or putting a theme on their phone.

You know this is true yet your downplaying it because you know you have no leg to stand on. Vzw can't stop you from rooting, can't stop you from theming or removing bloatware. What they can AND will do is violate your contract for it. You have one option. Leave verizon. Actually two...open a lawsuit and let verizons lawyers run you into the ground. Whining on droidforums will get you nowhere, trust me.

So now let's get back on topic. If rooting violates your warranty, why are you whining when it violates your warranty? If rooting violates your warranty why do so many "I have to send my phone in for servicee, how do I unroot threads come up"? Why? Because you know that there is no justification per what you agreed to. If not, why unroot? Send it in rooted. I mean it is "your phone" and you can "do whatever you want with it" right...? Its comical how far you people reach. And how adamant you are...on droidforums...that what your doing is right and justified when you wouldn't dare admit what you're doing to vzw. Spare me with the "this is a travesty and I won't stand for it" crap. You're standing for it...and you're reaching as far as you can.

Btw when I say "you" I'm not talking about you specifically. I'm talking about the group of people, whiich may include you, that swear vzw is the devil and yet religiously pay their bills like lapdogs every month. The only thing I can think of to describe this behavior is LOL (apologies to the guy who doesn't like capital letters)

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk