P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[crazyjoker2]

What does it matter if you hook a phone with hdmi to a 50in TV and browse the internet or tether a laptop to browse?

 

[Its TwiX]

What they need to do is stop being greedy! We pay for an Internet pipe, we have capped data. We should be able to use this data however we choose, as WE HAVE A FREAKING CAP ALREADY.

I am about to drop all my Verizion $h!+ all together. If I have just one issue with ANY of this I will drop my entire FiOS pipe, Internet, Phone, AND TV! I pay for Upgraded FiOS, 2 phones with data, and I tether like 20MB a month, MAYBE. That is not worth $20 on top for a tethering plan! I would JUMP on a provider that promotes OPEN DEVELOPMENT of OPEN SOURCE ANDROID like it is nobody's business.

Maybe 1 provider should jump on this and say, WE ARE OPEN! We would be just like we are now, and we would have a cap just like we do not, and we would pay an overage.... JUST LIKE WE DO NOW, RIGHT!?

I would even pay an early termination fee with Verizon Wireless to jump on a provider that promoted phones, and Android as Open as it was initially intended!

They should just make people pay overages when they go over a cap (LIKE THEY DO NOW), and not lock down phones. What we need is that Open Cell Phone Provider, that actually gives a crap about us, and not molesting us for every penny they can! Open Phone manufacturers that use tools that have been developed during all of our endeavors, and a plan that won't break the bank! Virgin/Sprint would be perfect for this, as they are the little guy (or might be soon).

Maybe these providers should remove their heads from their backside, and realize it is not just about them, and them MILKING the bottom line, and us! I can't even fathom what percentage of my paycheck just goes to VERIZON! Now they want more, and I already use my FiOS WiFi when I am at home, and Work's when at work, what more do these bee-cheese want!?!?!?

I'm laughing so hard. Do you honestly think having open software is a good idea for a company? Why do you think Google won't be releasing the honeycomb source code? They don't want phones running a hybrid of gingerbread and honeycomb out before they make their hybrid (Ice Cream). Why don't they want that? Money money money. This is the same reason you won't see an open carrier. Money doesn't grow on trees. If everyone and their mother could openly tether with their unlimited plan that carrier would have bogged down cell towers all day every day. There would be no reason for mobile broadband cards because everyone could tether with their phone losing a ton of money. This isn't cable internet. You can't just give it to whoever and have it run well for everyone 99% of the time. Towers have limits. Think of it as a highway. Data transfer on phones is okay with a bit of tethering but when you have unlimited data on phones and tether through that unlimited plan this creates traffic. Like... Rush hour traffic. You have people using VPN for work, streaming music, torrenting, etc. Crumbling the network. You will never ever see your open carrier. Sorry.


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[zero7404]

Here's how I see the whole Tethering situation... I completely see why they charge for it NOW. With all the people who are tethering to xbox's & so forth. However, if/when Verizon goes to tiered data... if I'm paying for say 5gb of data per month, I expect to be able to use it how I want to... Whether it be my phone, computer, or whatever.

the fact that the traffic to/from a handheld is being analyzed is somewhat of a privacy breach. the fact that verizon is moving to the tune of tiered plans may be acknowledgement that they want to rid themselves of those that tether/stream and beat the hell out of the network.

but you are 1000% right: they have no right to tell you what you can and cannot use your connection for. that is censoring. furthermore, regardless of data plan, verizon cannot tell me or anyone else that i cannot use the data to have a broadband connection for whatever reason. so long as i am within the MB allowance of my plan (unlimited) i can do whatever i want with the connection.

verizon can get sued for trying to penalize those that tether, because everyone with a data plan is on an unlimited plan.

 

[OneTenderRebel]

. Data
Content you send or receive from your wireless device other than calls and text messages. Data includes accessing the Internet, picture and video messaging, games and applications, email accounts and more. Sending and receiving data is billed based on the volume (Megabyte or Gigabyte) of data sent or received, and can be charged per-use or as part of a data package.

From Verizon web page sent or received from your phone not sent from your phone then to another device

Mobile Broadband Connect
A plan allowing you to use your wireless phone as a portable modem to access the Internet on your notebook.
The plan you need if you want to use your phone that way

Now if its not stealing or wrong... then why would two options be offered? So if you go to McDonald's at lunch one one side of town. Save your cup and on your way home you get a hankering for a big MAC and your thirsty is it ok to refill your cup when they have a sign saying refill on same visit only??????

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So everything that a corporation says, is automatically right? Moral? Accurate?

See my references to the Magnuson-Moss Act, and the ruling against Apple.

Both made the same claims, citing theft of services, warranty claims, etc...

Both times, the courts sided with consumers. The arguments that you, others and VZW are making, have been made before. And at the end of the day, they didn't matter a hill of beans.

Apple claimed that installing free apps instead of buying their apps, was stealing and illegal, and many people, people not unlike you, agreed with them. The courts said otherwise.

The automakers tried it before Apple, with the same result. Unless they could PROVE that you using another shop, or other parts, is what caused that particular problem, they could not void your warranty.

VZW says rooting voids the warranty. So what if the button falls off, or there are a bunch of defective phones and that rooted phone is one of them?

Almighty VZW says it is voided, they put it in writing. So did the automakers and the courts said no dice, the consumer bought the car, just as we bought these phones, we can do what we want and unless it is shown that doing so CAUSED the problem, the warranty is valid.

Apple complained about theft, because they charged for those apps. They lost.

Cable companies used to charge per TV, now they charge for the line, and any tuner/DVR boxes you need them to provide, not for each TV.

Many ISP's tried to charge per PC back in the day, and that got tossed out.

Apple lost the right to file lawsuits against those consumers. They did not lose the right to void the warranty. I see where you are coming from, I really do but when you sign the contract you are now subject to their terms.

 

[SquireSCA]

Here's how I see the whole Tethering situation... I completely see why they charge for it NOW. With all the people who are tethering to xbox's & so forth. However, if/when Verizon goes to tiered data... if I'm paying for say 5gb of data per month, I expect to be able to use it how I want to... Whether it be my phone, computer, or whatever.

Nope, you should pay for each device, even if all of tem combined use less than your 5GB phone limit.

According the VZW.

 

[axlx]

Did you root?

Then you are guilty, regardless of whether you tether daily or have tethered 4 times in the past 7 months as I have.

They are targeting ROOTERS, not just tetherers. People that have never tethered, are under scrutiny and attack because they rooted.

Jail breaking is the original form of what is rooting on the android. Jail breaking installs an app store that allows the user to download application all free which would normally cost money on apples. Not only that does it have mods on other source sites, of which the most popular ones by about double of any other mod is the hack to un-cap the data throttle and make a wifi hot spot.

Apple may have been so pissed at Cydia after so many years and over 9 million or so jail broken devices Stevie Jobs went head over heals and went after them for theft based on the code of which Cydia is based off of.

Regardless of how they attempted to kill Cydia, the court made a precedent.

Apple Officially Claims Jailbreaking Illegal


While I could list them all Fred von Lohmann of the Electronic Frontier Foundation which confronts cutting-edge issues defending free speech, privacy, innovation, and consumer rights says it best with his statment:

If this sounds like FUD, that's because it is. One need only transpose Apple's arguments to the world of automobiles to recognize their absurdity. Sure, GM might tell us that, for our own safety, all servicing should be done by an authorized GM dealer using only genuine GM parts. Toyota might say that swapping your engine could reduce the reliability of your car. And Mazda could say that those who throw a supercharger on their Miatas frequently exceed the legal speed limit.

But we'd never accept this corporate paternalism as a justification for welding every car hood shut and imposing legal liability on car buffs tinkering in their garages. After all, the culture of tinkering (or hacking, if you prefer) is an important part of our innovation economy.

Of course, many iPhone owners will be happy to choose solely from the applications that Apple is willing to approve, just like many Ford owners are happy relying exclusively on their local Ford dealer. But if you want to pop the hood, the DMCA surely shouldn't stand in your way."

Like it or hate it, it is not hard to be used as a precedent and defend any rooting done on any platform. Last time I saw the forums I have never seen a post of being suspended. Yes Apple can try since AT&T has yet to do anything about the thousands or more who have these mods. They try to every update but it never works after all these years.

Now why is it so hard to put VZW in the same position? Last time I checked you signed a contract anytime you used itunes and even had a second one with AT&T.

You all can leave your righteousness at the door, theres a monster out there that Verizon can't kill yet. Why would they look at a community less than half its size almost?

Well said, sir. In relation to automobiles, there is a Federal law that was passed in the 1970's that said that you can get your oil changes done at places other than the dealership, and you can use aftermarket parts in your car.

And if the car breaks, it is up to the dealer or manufacturer of the car to PROVE that your use of that part or other service center is what CAUSED the problem, or else they must, by law, honor the warranty.

That is what is so funny about this stuff. It's a repeat of history from other industries. The auto makers failed when they tried to mandate that you had to have all service and all parts come from authorized dealers or else your warranty was void. It was challenged and they lost, and the something Magnuson-Moss Act was passed:

Magnuson

Apple tried their hand at the same thing, claiming that rooting and using another app store was stealing from them, because you were able to get a free app that they charged for. Sound like a familiar argument? Ahem...

They lost that.

There are other examples, but the people that are open minded about this, they get the point. The lemmings following the VZW marching beat will continue to walk off the cliff in their self-righteousness... Let them.

Well said, sir. In relation to automobiles, there is a Federal law that was passed in the 1970's that said that you can get your oil changes done at places other than the dealership, and you can use aftermarket parts in your car.

And if the car breaks, it is up to the dealer or manufacturer of the car to PROVE that your use of that part or other service center is what CAUSED the problem, or else they must, by law, honor the warranty.

That is what is so funny about this stuff. It's a repeat of history from other industries. The auto makers failed when they tried to mandate that you had to have all service and all parts come from authorized dealers or else your warranty was void. It was challenged and they lost, and the something Magnuson-Moss Act was passed:

Magnuson

Apple tried their hand at the same thing, claiming that rooting and using another app store was stealing from them, because you were able to get a free app that they charged for. Sound like a familiar argument? Ahem...

They lost that.

There are other examples, but the people that are open minded about this, they get the point. The lemmings following the VZW marching beat will continue to walk off the cliff in their self-righteousness... Let them.

Blah, thankyou. Nice to see there is some originality here. Was addicted to my ipod for a year straight moding it and making it a ghetto iphone tethering it via bluetooth to my LG voyager.

I don't mean to sound demeaning to people but I can't understand why I see phrases like "OMG!" they are coming after us, coming off as if the android community is giant and well rooted in the mod world.

Verizon has just recently gotten the iphone, why would they look at us when Verizon just died and went to heaven(and hell for the programmers) over all their new shiny money toys.

Well we have a few different debates here and I think some are getting mixed together. I don't think anyone is too worried about them coming to get us though, atleast I am not. I am confident they will issue warnings first, if this does all prove true. One thing for sure, this sure ignited a spirited debate, haha.

It is possible these views are starting to be mixed but in a basic sense Apple has tried to kill Cydia and will continue to through updates and is allowed to

Verizon is more than welcome to do the same through either updating the network so the tethering methods do not work or go after the super user itself by system updating something that cannot be cracked. (doubt they can) But unless I have really gotten off topic, I have been reading people arguing acting like we are all going to get Verizon on our front door with a box of toys and spandex about to bum hurt us. Yelling about stealing and not understanding what modding is, regardless of questionable acts we are all here because we support it in one way or another.

Remember AT&T just bought T-Mobile, I can't see Verizon making any radical move against any moding community when they now have a real competitor to deal with. (Personally I think AT&T just did it because they were pissed at Verizon for taking their phone)

I can't see them having the time to check every signal and individually kick them in the nuts from the signal towers if they are using an un-official mod that increases data flow.

 

[OneTenderRebel]

Here's how I see the whole Tethering situation... I completely see why they charge for it NOW. With all the people who are tethering to xbox's & so forth. However, if/when Verizon goes to tiered data... if I'm paying for say 5gb of data per month, I expect to be able to use it how I want to... Whether it be my phone, computer, or whatever.

Nope, you should pay for each device, even if all of tem combined use less than your 5GB phone limit.

According the VZW.

I don't think any of us are saying we like paying for each additional connection. I think that is where the disconnect is between us. If I had my way unlimited data would be just that, unlimited to anything I want it to be. But unfortunately VZW does not see it that way. Just because people don't agree with it doesn't make it right to go against it. I say go against it if you want but be weary of the consequences.

 

[jengas kahn]

it's hard to imagine that the reason these companies came into existence (and thrived) was that they had something to offer to people, to make their lives' easier, even to... *gasp* cater to them.

 

[really fascinating]

Uh hello!!! Verizon is selling you data to be used on your phone. They are "nice " enough to offer you the option to buy an additional service to wireless teather if you don't want to buy it don't use it. If you need home internet they have that too.


Ha-ha this is fun.
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[jengas kahn]

not talking about tethering.
i don't think i'm the only person in the world who feels like their carrier has them over a barrel.

 

[zero7404]

Uh hello!!! Verizon is selling you data to be used on your phone. They are "nice " enough to offer you the option to buy an additional service to wireless teather if you don't want to buy it don't use it. If you need home internet they have that too.


Ha-ha this is fun.
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argument: they never said anything about NOT using your phone data to tether in the first place. now they are offering the plan/option.

the fundamental fail of all this lies with the carrier because they offered unlimited data while under an assumption. now that they are getting heavy traffic, they had to do something to generate even MORE money to improve the infrastructure.

i have argument with this above statement, because as the country's largest carrier, they should have plenty of money in the bank already to be improving their services. instead, greed and profit margins driven by the company's board are calling these shots that are changing the playing field for subscribers.

 

[Its TwiX]

Some of you are really stubborn. Why do you think they have a ToS you sign for data usage? Have any of you saying "whatever whatever I do what I want" actually read any of the forms you signed for your phone? It's quite comical... Sure you're not going to get sued for tethering or rooting but they can deny you of service whenever the hell they want if you violate your contract. And if you take them to court for denying you of service you will probably get laughed at. They have you sign a contract for a reason.

And to those of you blindly following this article, I feel bad for you.

P3droid said the sky is falling tomorrow. Start praying!

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[DoctorDeDroid]

Here is a paranoid thought : a pay for backup service. Get rid of root... poof goes Titanium... new vacation home for the CEO.

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[zero7404]

Some of you are really stubborn. Why do you think they have a ToS you sign for data usage? Have any of you saying "whatever whatever I do what I want" actually read any of the forms you signed for your phone? It's quite comical... Sure you're not going to get sued for tethering or rooting but they can deny you of service whenever the hell they want if you violate your contract. And if you take them to court for denying you of service you will probably get laughed at. They have you sign a contract for a reason.

And to those of you blindly following this article, I feel bad for you.

P3droid said the sky is falling tomorrow. Start praying!

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if this is the card carriers begin to play, then there are other carriers and alternatives. Sprint's CEO came on the TV just now to announce that subscribers of their unlimited plans can do exactly that with their services ....

 

[Doulandroid]

I think this April fools joke has gotten out of hand. Nice one, p3droid.

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