Lets say your neighbor tapped into you electric line. And you notice your Electric bill getting hire but you have not used any more power the you usually use. Then you find out your neighbor was using up your electricity you go to him and say well you probably wont say anything you will just rip him a new one. And he says to you I am only using the power for myself!!! Would that make it ok or would you jump on him again and beat him silly?
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P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
- Thread starter barski
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Lets say your neighbor tapped into you electric line. And you notice your Electric bill getting hire but you have not used any more power the you usually use. Then you find out your neighbor was using up your electricity you go to him and say well you probably wont say anything you will just rip him a new one. And he says to you I am only using the power for myself!!! Would that make it ok or would you jump on him again and beat him silly?
TheTyler0013
Member
You r now my new favorite person lol . U made my day thank u
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Amen. They gave up control and the ability to nickle and dime us in order to compete with the iPhone+ATT juggernaut. Now that they have tipped the scales in their favor, they want to tighten the reins. The way they see it, now they could have all that control and nickle and diming days again, but with a much larger customer base.
It is like printing money for them, and they want it, bad.
If they do this, we can kiss a lot of freedoms goodbye. Want GPS? Pay $10 a month.
No Skype, if you want to make a call then increase your voice plan = more $$.
In any business, where are profit margins higher? In your existing client base, or getting new clients?
Answer is in your existing clients. It's far more profitable, and easier to accomplish, to just keep charging them more, than it is to go out and earn new business.
It is sad that VZW feels that they have to do things this way...
OMG, you are joking, right?
So you think that when I pay for $200 worth of electricty, and *I* use only $40 worth of it every month, for *myself*, for *my* devices in *my* home...
That that is somehow the same as someone else coming over without *my* permission and tapping into what *I* am paying for and using up more than I paid for?
If that is your question, how am I supposed to respond to that?
Doulandroid
Member
This is like being in the opening diner scene in Resevoir Dogs. I have Fords stealing cable at the Chinese buffet in one ear vs Verizon tethering Mr. Freaky to a parrot in another ear. Then everyone argues over the waitresses tip. Geez, and hilarious. 
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Sent from my Droid using DroidForums
I was not defending tethering - something that I agree, may constitute theft of service. I was asking a question, by way of the toll road analogy, How does my rooted droid X, with a custom rom and theme, cause them damage or loss? Nowhere have I seen any evidence that the simple act of rooting and theming turns my Droid X into a dangerous threat to Verizon's system.
-Mike
Mike I agree with you if I purchase a phone and want to customize it I do not see anything wrong with it it is mine. We can customize our desktops and laptops. Why can't we do it with our phones. I can remove software from my desktop and Laptop I do not want or need. That is my right because it is mine.
TheSwaggeR
Member
I had a good laugh at what freezyfreaky had to post. Pretty funny!
I'm still not getting the idea how money is made and loss by simply removing an app from your phone. The ONLY way this is possible, by means of MAKING money, is if we clicked the app each time to use it, which is NOT how it is done at all anywhere. The only other way I can think of that somehow generates such money is allowing some kind of trial, or limited use of such app, and then you are required to sign up for a monthly plan. I stay away from those.
I can't really even recall any apps I use that is bloatware, from the beginning up till now, that I have used more than a couple times. I didn't find much use for most of them anyways. There were other apps that had the same idea as the bloatware, but a nicer UI perhaps, or more features to indulge in, or we just didn't feel it is a rightful obligation for us to sign up to continue using an app or enable the hidden extra features.
This is all starting to look like Bill Gate's Microsoft Windows. Sure people want to be like him (rich and all). But at least he doesn't give a hoot how much you modify your desktop/laptop. Only thing I hate what they're doing is cutting back on the essential programs that are needed on the laptop/PC. Back in the 90's we had all the programs we needed, that came with the laptop/PC, for free (Microsoft Words/Works/Antivirus/whatever). Look at it today. Almost all programs are trial versions and they want you to pay to continue using Microsoft Words/Works. I'll be dam'ed if paying $2000 for a nice laptop won't allow me to have full running programs with a bunch of trial for 30 days then pay up B.S. put on it!
So, again, if you want to put this bloatware crap on, then make it worth keeping when we pay for the phone. Put that trial stuff on, or make us pony up more money monthly for additional stuff, then don't be surprised if we remove that app faster than light speed.
I'm still not getting the idea how money is made and loss by simply removing an app from your phone. The ONLY way this is possible, by means of MAKING money, is if we clicked the app each time to use it, which is NOT how it is done at all anywhere. The only other way I can think of that somehow generates such money is allowing some kind of trial, or limited use of such app, and then you are required to sign up for a monthly plan. I stay away from those.
I can't really even recall any apps I use that is bloatware, from the beginning up till now, that I have used more than a couple times. I didn't find much use for most of them anyways. There were other apps that had the same idea as the bloatware, but a nicer UI perhaps, or more features to indulge in, or we just didn't feel it is a rightful obligation for us to sign up to continue using an app or enable the hidden extra features.
This is all starting to look like Bill Gate's Microsoft Windows. Sure people want to be like him (rich and all). But at least he doesn't give a hoot how much you modify your desktop/laptop. Only thing I hate what they're doing is cutting back on the essential programs that are needed on the laptop/PC. Back in the 90's we had all the programs we needed, that came with the laptop/PC, for free (Microsoft Words/Works/Antivirus/whatever). Look at it today. Almost all programs are trial versions and they want you to pay to continue using Microsoft Words/Works. I'll be dam'ed if paying $2000 for a nice laptop won't allow me to have full running programs with a bunch of trial for 30 days then pay up B.S. put on it!
So, again, if you want to put this bloatware crap on, then make it worth keeping when we pay for the phone. Put that trial stuff on, or make us pony up more money monthly for additional stuff, then don't be surprised if we remove that app faster than light speed.
dfuser312553
Silver Member
This tethering thing... you know it sort of reminds me of setting up ISDN lines in the early 90's. The phone company wanted to charge us not only for 2 phone lines (cool), a premium for the banding & noise cancelling of the lines (half cool), & the ISP charging for an additional account plus the speed boost they had nothing to do with (not cool). Needless to say we did it ourselves & never thought about it again.
This whole p3 thing = garbage. Carriers don't have the right or ability to read your xbin for su & when my phone is doing all the pinging their detection of tethering is a mere guess.
This whole p3 thing = garbage. Carriers don't have the right or ability to read your xbin for su & when my phone is doing all the pinging their detection of tethering is a mere guess.
Not according to VZW and your ToS it isn't.
That is what is at stake here, not tethering. Tethering is merely the guise that they are using in order to get people to let them make the changes that they want to make.
If they get what they want, they will own your phone, because they see it as an extension of their network and their service. You shouldn't have control over it, they should.
That is the what we are up against. So forget tethering and look at the big picture here.
illmatic636
Active Member
Good Point Poontab
How do they make money if we don't click on it? Same way they make money from commercials. They pay to put it on the air. But with TIVO, they could see that people were forwarding through them. This angered the people who were paying top dollar to put ads in front of the viewers, who were then using the fast forward button to circumvent them.
So they went and pressured the TV networks and TIVO themselves, saying that they were not willing to pay them the advertising fees unless they could guarantee that people would have to actually view the ads.
By letting us remove the bloat, that they PAID for to be on there, that opens the door for them to go to VZW and not pay them as much, or cancel the contracts or not renew them unless VZW could guarantee that their apps could not be removed.
That costs VZW money. So our rooting and removing the bloat, VZW sees as stealing their ability to sell and generate that revenue from those 3rd parties.
It's crazy, but that is how this crap works.
plutoknight
New Member
And this is the best point I've seen regarding this recent information.
Me? I'm spending my day off garnering the gusto to SBF back to stock. I'm on a family plan with 4-5 other people, and I'll be damned if "Rooted" phones (which I only tethered on once, when Verizon's 3G Aircard was throttling me for no reason, to do a school assignment) are gonna mess everyone else on my plan up.
Call me paranoid, scared, whatever, but I've plenty of other devices that aren't constantly being watched I can jailbreak and do cool things with XD.
(And, I've reason to suspect that P3Droid is 100% right. I've been getting hit with the throttle hammer and even been kicked off Verizon's network a whole bunch lately. My usage last month was ~2GB, 99.9% of that on my phone.)
TheSwaggeR
Member
Ok, I understand most of that, but how would they know when we use their app? It would be no different if we left the app on there and NEVER EVER once clicked it. That also would be no different in removing the app. They paid for the app to be on there but that's where it stops. What the consumer does to the app is their choice and is no longer in the developers/advertisers control.
I've seen some people say that rooting your phone prevents any OTA from updating. I never had that problem. The only time an OTA update is prevented is by installing a ROM that was coded to stay at a certain version, rather than OTA updating, changing the version, and thus making things incompatible to use on your phone.
So, in other words you're saying that the developers/advertisers pay money to VZW with their updates on bloatware, but some updates don't make it to some phones because of a custom ROM blocking it? Therefore the money expected to be generated from these updates is less than expected?
Makes no sense. I'm at lost for words here.
I don't know all of the mechanisms at work here, I am not a developer.
I do know that just as in the TV world, companies pay a TON of money to get their product pushed in front of you. That was what the "issue" was with TIVO. They know that millions of people were skipping through the ads that they PAID Fox and NBC to put in front of you. That to them, is wasting money.
But they lost that. So what do they do now? You see ads scrolling along the bottom of your screen, during your shows, sometimes taking up 20% of your tv's available space. One way or another, these companies have the money and political clout to force you to watch their ads.
Every website you do to, has a gazillion ads all over it, including this website. If there was an app that you could run on your phone or PC, that would strip out all the banner ads and crap, what would happen? Once they caught wind of it, the sponsors of those ads would go to the forum Admin and tell them that unless they blocked those apps and could force those ads to appear on everyone's screen, they would stop advertising here, and if DF.net wanted to keep that money coming in, they would have to "crack down" on whatever was allowing us to get around the ads.
This phone issue, is simply the newer generation of this crap. Everyone and their brother has a smart phone today. And advertisers are drooling over the prospect of being able to push ads to every American, 24/7 on their phones.
And companies like VZW see the potential for profit, and they want a piece of that action, and that is a huge piece of what this whole issue is about.
The more control we have over our phones, the less control they have over what they can force us to view.
That is why they are "cracking down" on rooting. They want to take back control of the phones so that whatever you want, you have to buy it from them. And they want to be able to push ads and apps to you whether you want them or not, because they are being payed by 3rd parties to do so.
If they catch a few tether-thieves in the process, that's just a bonus, it isn't the real goal.
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