P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[Its TwiX]

I'm just saying your analogies are not very good. And about everyone and the iPhone "jailbreaking is okay" thing...
just because you can't get taken to court for jailbreaking doesn't mean they can't deny you of service and force you to pay the ETF. Shouldn't be so worried about it though. P3 is one sketchy character.
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[pc747]

Comparing a car warranty to a phone warranty is utterly ridiculous. The fact is if you root your phone and your button falls off, if you send it back that way they don't have to fix anything. Even if it has nothing to do with the problem, you already voided your warranty by rooting.

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OMG. Nobody is saying that a car warranty is the same as a phone warranty. Am I not typing in English?

It's an example of how an industry tried to lock things down so that customers could only use their parts and there service and do things their way so that they could charge whatever they wanted, etc...

It's a "similar situation", not an EXACT PARALLEL.

Sweet Jeebus, stop being Larry Literal here. LOL

Companies tried to lock things down and control every aspect of products that people paid for, and the government stepped in and said no, there has to be limits, these people payed for them and unless their actions CAUSED the problem, you have to honor the warranty, with few exceptions.

And before someone cites an exception, yes, there were and still are some. But that does not in any way invalidate the premise that companies tried to be too controlling and had to be "corrected" via legislation.

It is merely an example of how "it's just the way it is" can change if enough people get fed up and demand that change.

So before the next person responds with, "But a phone doesn't require transmission fluid so the analogy is wrong"... Stop. Go back, read the post in the context that I gave you, in the spirit it was given, and read it 5 times if you have to.

If you still can't figure it out, put your hockey helmet back on and go back to running head first into a wall while I go put a gun in my mouth... LOL

Technically you are right they can not stop you from modding your phone. You paid for it so you can do what you want. But they can say that you can not use a modded phone on their network. They control the rules of what can be done on their network so if they want to say that only red phones can be used on their network and you signed a contract agreeing to it then you better have a red phone or you violated your contract.

 

[SquireSCA]

The point is that just voiding a warranty because they don't want you to root, when your root may have had ZERO to do with any issue, ever, I think is BS.

Other industries tried *similar* things and got shot down. Will that happen here?

I don't know. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But there is a precedent for such things. Rooting won't cause your screen to die. It won't cause a button to fall off.

To just say that any root for any reason voids any type of warranty claim I don't think is fair.

It's my opinion. If your opinion is that you rooted and your screen died and there turned out to be a bad batch of screens put out and your serial number was one of them, but because you rooted to change the icons you should have to eat the cost of a new phone, so be it. It's a free country I guess...

 

[czerdrill]

The point is that just voiding a warranty because they don't want you to root, when your root may have had ZERO to do with any issue, ever, I think is BS.

Other industries tried *similar* things and got shot down. Will that happen here?

I don't know. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But there is a precedent for such things. Rooting won't cause your screen to die. It won't cause a button to fall off.

To just say that any root for any reason voids any type of warranty claim I don't think is fair.

It's my opinion. If your opinion is that you rooted and your screen died and there turned out to be a bad batch of screens put out and your serial number was one of them, but because you rooted to change the icons you should have to eat the cost of a new phone, so be it. It's a free country I guess...

But see that's the thing, and I think that's what everyone's been saying from the beginning. No, it may not be fair. And it's not fair. But you can't sign an agreement, knowingly violate it, and then start complaining about it being fair or not. You weren't forced into the agreement, and it is presumed that you understood the agreement before you signed it. It does not matter at all in any way whatsoever if it's fair or not. That's why I think trying to bring this to court and starting lawsuits and all this other crap will hold no water.

If you signed it, you knew (or should have known) what you were signing. Ignorance of the terms is not an excuse. It's like getting pulled over for speeding, and then fighting it in court by saying "I didn't know speeding was illegal". It won't fly, and neither will this.

 

[canyoufindben]

The point is that just voiding a warranty because they don't want you to root, when your root may have had ZERO to do with any issue, ever, I think is BS.

Other industries tried *similar* things and got shot down. Will that happen here?

I don't know. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But there is a precedent for such things. Rooting won't cause your screen to die. It won't cause a button to fall off.

To just say that any root for any reason voids any type of warranty claim I don't think is fair.

It's my opinion. If your opinion is that you rooted and your screen died and there turned out to be a bad batch of screens put out and your serial number was one of them, but because you rooted to change the icons you should have to eat the cost of a new phone, so be it. It's a free country I guess...

Silly analogy. Get a good mattress cover. Because if you have one single spot, even if it's not related to the coils rusting away inside, on the complete oposite end of the mattress, you warranty is void.

 

[SquireSCA]

Comparing a car warranty to a phone warranty is utterly ridiculous. The fact is if you root your phone and your button falls off, if you send it back that way they don't have to fix anything. Even if it has nothing to do with the problem, you already voided your warranty by rooting.

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

OMG. Nobody is saying that a car warranty is the same as a phone warranty. Am I not typing in English?

It's an example of how an industry tried to lock things down so that customers could only use their parts and there service and do things their way so that they could charge whatever they wanted, etc...

It's a "similar situation", not an EXACT PARALLEL.

Sweet Jeebus, stop being Larry Literal here. LOL

Companies tried to lock things down and control every aspect of products that people paid for, and the government stepped in and said no, there has to be limits, these people payed for them and unless their actions CAUSED the problem, you have to honor the warranty, with few exceptions.

And before someone cites an exception, yes, there were and still are some. But that does not in any way invalidate the premise that companies tried to be too controlling and had to be "corrected" via legislation.

It is merely an example of how "it's just the way it is" can change if enough people get fed up and demand that change.

So before the next person responds with, "But a phone doesn't require transmission fluid so the analogy is wrong"... Stop. Go back, read the post in the context that I gave you, in the spirit it was given, and read it 5 times if you have to.

If you still can't figure it out, put your hockey helmet back on and go back to running head first into a wall while I go put a gun in my mouth... LOL

Technically you are right they can not stop you from modding your phone. You paid for it so you can do what you want. But they can say that you can not use a modded phone on their network. They control the rules of what can be done on their network so if they want to say that only red phones can be used on their network and you signed a contract agreeing to it then you better have a red phone or you violated your contract.

I understand all that, I really do. But does anyone think that they are going to just kick a million or so users off the network and send them to Sprint or AT&T just because they rooted their phone?

I don't. That's too much money. They will go after the people that are blatently tethering and soaking up bandwidth for free, and scrutinize warranty claims and maybe terminate the people that they catch who tried to turn in a rooted phone, but I don't see it going beyond that.

It would cost them too many subscriptions if they did, and as everyone points out, this is about $$$.

 

[nerdslogic]

Well I just spoke to my cousin and a high school buddy....one works in corperate offices in VZW and the other for Moto and both reassured me that the statements in P3Droid's thread are not accurate. The only plan that they have is to pay more attention to data usage to try and pin point those that are tethering without the appropriate data plans. From there they will simply say....."either pick up this data plan or we are cancelling your contract" and you get to pay the breach of contract fee.

Like I said....they have no plans on doing anything else. Reason I was given was that there is actually no way they could put software on your phone to detect whether or not it is rooted without creating issues for those who are not rooted. And BOTH said the same thing regarding the previous comments.....and I quote "especially with Gingerbread" due to changes in the OS it would create serious issues should they try to implement this kind of thing.

So there you have it. I wont give you guys names....but I don't mind putting you in contact with my cousin who I am sure would be more than happy to assist as he works for VZW and has his TBolt rooted.

 

[nerdslogic]

When I asked about all of this he started cracking up saying he read this too and thinks it's hilarious. It is actually a running joke right now in Corp VZW.

 

[pc747]

OMG. Nobody is saying that a car warranty is the same as a phone warranty. Am I not typing in English?

It's an example of how an industry tried to lock things down so that customers could only use their parts and there service and do things their way so that they could charge whatever they wanted, etc...

It's a "similar situation", not an EXACT PARALLEL.

Sweet Jeebus, stop being Larry Literal here. LOL

Companies tried to lock things down and control every aspect of products that people paid for, and the government stepped in and said no, there has to be limits, these people payed for them and unless their actions CAUSED the problem, you have to honor the warranty, with few exceptions.

And before someone cites an exception, yes, there were and still are some. But that does not in any way invalidate the premise that companies tried to be too controlling and had to be "corrected" via legislation.

It is merely an example of how "it's just the way it is" can change if enough people get fed up and demand that change.

So before the next person responds with, "But a phone doesn't require transmission fluid so the analogy is wrong"... Stop. Go back, read the post in the context that I gave you, in the spirit it was given, and read it 5 times if you have to.

If you still can't figure it out, put your hockey helmet back on and go back to running head first into a wall while I go put a gun in my mouth... LOL

Technically you are right they can not stop you from modding your phone. You paid for it so you can do what you want. But they can say that you can not use a modded phone on their network. They control the rules of what can be done on their network so if they want to say that only red phones can be used on their network and you signed a contract agreeing to it then you better have a red phone or you violated your contract.

I understand all that, I really do. But does anyone think that they are going to just kick a million or so users off the network and send them to Sprint or AT&T just because they rooted their phone?

I don't. That's too much money. They will go after the people that are blatently tethering and soaking up bandwidth for free, and scrutinize warranty claims and maybe terminate the people that they catch who tried to turn in a rooted phone, but I don't see it going beyond that.

It would cost them too many subscriptions if they did, and as everyone points out, this is about $$$.

Right which is why instead of terminating your contract they will probably hit you up with fees, enough to make you want to just terminate your contract.

 

[czerdrill]

When I asked about all of this he started cracking up saying he read this too and thinks it's hilarious. It is actually a running joke right now in Corp VZW.

I would put as much weight in your cousin's words as I would p3droids (no offense). that being said, i tend to believe that your cousin is right, simply because it makes zero sense for verizon to implement something like this, even if they could. As Squire mentioned, they are not going to kick thousands of the network because they rooted. Tether-ers maybe (and even in that case, the really crazy abusers, not people who have done it twice). What they will do is like you said, tell you to get a plan, and if you don't, block you from tethering (and that's only if you're one of the abusers).

Like I said from the beginning of this awful thread, unless it comes from the source (VZW), I don't buy it. And if it does come to fruition and they do come after me, I'll pay what I have to pay. I'm not going to leave Verizon for some sub-par carrier just to prove a point.

 

[www3]

+1
I was in a Verizon store yesterday talking to the manager and he told me basically the same thing

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[Backnblack]

Well I just spoke to my cousin and a high school buddy....one works in corperate offices in VZW and the other for Moto and both reassured me that the statements in P3Droid's thread are not accurate.

Care to cough up Names and Emails?

 

[Its TwiX]

Well I just spoke to my cousin and a high school buddy....one works in corperate offices in VZW and the other for Moto and both reassured me that the statements in P3Droid's thread are not accurate. The only plan that they have is to pay more attention to data usage to try and pin point those that are tethering without the appropriate data plans. From there they will simply say....."either pick up this data plan or we are cancelling your contract" and you get to pay the breach of contract fee.

Like I said....they have no plans on doing anything else. Reason I was given was that there is actually no way they could put software on your phone to detect whether or not it is rooted without creating issues for those who are not rooted. And BOTH said the same thing regarding the previous comments.....and I quote "especially with Gingerbread" due to changes in the OS it would create serious issues should they try to implement this kind of thing.

So there you have it. I wont give you guys names....but I don't mind putting you in contact with my cousin who I am sure would be more than happy to assist as he works for VZW and has his TBolt rooted.

+1 been saying this the whole time. Talk to a well known developer about P3 and you'll find out how much "good for the community" he has really done.


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[nerdslogic]

When I asked about all of this he started cracking up saying he read this too and thinks it's hilarious. It is actually a running joke right now in Corp VZW.

I would put as much weight in your cousin's words as I would p3droids (no offense). that being said, i tend to believe that your cousin is right, simply because it makes zero sense for verizon to implement something like this, even if they could. As Squire mentioned, they are not going to kick thousands of the network because they rooted. Tether-ers maybe (and even in that case, the really crazy abusers, not people who have done it twice). What they will do is like you said, tell you to get a plan, and if you don't, block you from tethering (and that's only if you're one of the abusers).

Like I said from the beginning of this awful thread, unless it comes from the source (VZW), I don't buy it. And if it does come to fruition and they do come after me, I'll pay what I have to pay. I'm not going to leave Verizon for some sub-par carrier just to prove a point.

no offense taken....but that is almost exactly what he said. They are worried about ABUSERS. My cousins quote regarding rooting was quite simple...."root your phone....void your warranty....we don't care because we have tons of phones....we can just sell you another one."

 

[hemorrdroid]

Rooting won't cause your screen to die. It won't cause a button to fall off.

I don't know lol, sometimes i wonder if i'm going to wear out my volume buttons, navigating through my files in CWM.